ENOUGH drama, lets get real here

reply to post by covertpanther


Good for you, I think the best thing for any human anywhere is to go travel. It will give you a better perspective on your life, and those around you.

I'm brash, I'm callous, and I don't sugar coat anything for anyone. I'm a very bitter individual when it comes to ATS. The website has evolved quite a bit, and if you really spent that much time investigating conspiracies I think you would realize the majority of true conspiracies turn out to be less than fantastical as we imagine.

I actually feel like a good majority of the supposed conspiracies are born and perpetuated by conspiracy theorists themselves. I just never see proof, I see lots of hearsay, lots of compelling arguments and thoughts but no real proof.

Sorry you happened to fall under my boot this time, but I tend to step on a few heads now and then.

Originally posted by frazzle
IF and WHEN the whistleblowers can present documentation showing that legislators, judges and others who wield power in this country have been co-opted into changing their votes or positions on particular issues due to spies gaining damaging personal information on them, THEN, and only then, will we have a true whistleblower. Until they can show WHO has been co-opted and by WHOM its all hot air.

Snowden's information proved James Clapper and Keith Alexander - one of the most powerful men in the world - both lied to Congress and the American people under oath.

I find it galling the fact that Snowden has risked his ass to bring you this information is not enough for you and that you will refuse to speak out for him because he didn't cherry pick leaks to suit you. I'm sorry, he must have been too busy to take your order that day. Did you want fries with that, as well? Unbelievable.

Unless you're prepared to go dig dirt on exactly those specific individuals you would like to see hanged, shut up and say thank you for having this much.

TO OP:
I was wondering about Snowden, Is he really in Russia? If he worked as a spy, he really didn't think of getting himself a secret identity the agency wouldn't know about?

And for the rest of the post: I couldn't agree more.

It's that most of use feel powerless or wouldn't know where/how to start to create some sort of change.

Originally posted by Archie

Originally posted by frazzle
IF and WHEN the whistleblowers can present documentation showing that legislators, judges and others who wield power in this country have been co-opted into changing their votes or positions on particular issues due to spies gaining damaging personal information on them, THEN, and only then, will we have a true whistleblower. Until they can show WHO has been co-opted and by WHOM its all hot air.

Snowden's information proved James Clapper and Keith Alexander - one of the most powerful men in the world - both lied to Congress and the American people under oath.

I find it galling the fact that Snowden has risked his ass to bring you this information is not enough for you and that you will refuse to speak out for him because he didn't cherry pick leaks to suit you. I'm sorry, he must have been too busy to take your order that day. Did you want fries with that, as well? Unbelievable.

Unless you're prepared to go dig dirt on exactly those specific individuals you would like to see hanged, shut up and say thank you for having this much.

Okay, so Clapper lied to Congress and the American people under oath. Is that really such an oddity? Are you saying that hardly ever happens? And when a congressman (like Wyden in this case) suspects that an official has lied to them under oath, what happens? Nothing, that's what, because the suspected liars are not arrested and hauled into an interrogation room and the truth beaten out of them. That would be so barbaric, you know, such treatment is reserved for a special few, some of whom know nothing at all and when one does they die like Hastings because no one at the top wants the American people to know what they know.

Is Snowden one of the latter who made good his escape? I don't claim to know one way or the other, all I'm saying is until the information he allegedly got away with names names and exposes details its fairly useless.

As for shutting up, I might just as well since I know as much now as before I ever heard of Snowden.

Originally posted by frazzle

Okay, so Clapper lied to Congress and the American people under oath. Is that really such an oddity? Are you saying that hardly ever happens? And when a congressman (like Wyden in this case) suspects that an official has lied to them under oath, what happens? Nothing, that's what, because the suspected liars are not arrested and hauled into an interrogation room and the truth beaten out of them.

No. Do you know why nothing's done? Because people like you sit at home and gripe. Nothing happens because YOU do nothing to show you're in the least bit displeased with the turn of events. Silence = approval.

Is Snowden one of the latter who made good his escape? I don't claim to know one way or the other, all I'm saying is until the information he allegedly got away with names names and exposes details its fairly useless.

To say this, you obviously can't grasp the scope of his revelations re PRISM et al.

I suggest you watch this "Surveillance Teach-In" with former NSA whistleblower Bill Binney and Jacob Applebaum (Tor developer/Wikileaks) shot by Laura Poitras - the film maker who filmed the interview with Snowden in Hong Kong. Really listen and take it in and maybe then you'll start to comprehend the scope of what they're doing and, who knows, you might even get angry. And you know what happens when people get angry enough? People fall and things change. And if they don't you only have yourself to blame.

reply to post by Archie

I suggest you watch this "Surveillance Teach-In" with former NSA whistleblower Bill Binney and Jacob Applebaum (Tor developer/Wikileaks) shot by Laura Poitras - the film maker who filmed the interview with Snowden in Hong Kong. Really listen and take it in and maybe then you'll start to comprehend the scope of what they're doing and, who knows, you might even get angry.

Okay, I followed your suggestion and watched the whole thing. Two pieces of advice really stood out for me:

1) Write to your congressman (Applebaum)
2) Even if you win, you lose (Binney)
3) "None of them honor the 4th amendment" (Duh)

You have no idea what I know or have done, although I will tell you that I studied and reported on the activities of the spooks, evesdroppers and infiltrators as it was happening back in the 1970s and people thought I was nuts. It was all a giant conspiracy theory and most laughed at me. So the technology has grown like Topsy, who'd a thunk, and some are still shocked and others still call it a conspiracy theory. Whaddyado?

And to be honest, I don't think it could have been stopped even as far back as the 70s as they had been practicing their spying skills for many years already and corruption and paranoia was already to the bone in government and the alphabet agencies. Not to mention the people were and are too trusting.

Dunno, maybe our only hope is for a better hacker from one of America's hundreds of adversary countries to come up with a malware program that will fill the screens in Utah (and elsewhere) with pictures of tiny angels dancing on the heads of pins.

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by Archie

 

Okay, I followed your suggestion and watched the whole thing. Two pieces of advice really stood out for me:

1) Write to your congressman (Applebaum)
2) Even if you win, you lose (Binney)
3) "None of them honor the 4th amendment" (Duh)

You have no idea what I know or have done, although I will tell you that I studied and reported on the activities of the spooks, evesdroppers and infiltrators as it was happening back in the 1970s and people thought I was nuts. It was all a giant conspiracy theory and most laughed at me. So the technology has grown like Topsy, who'd a thunk, and some are still shocked and others still call it a conspiracy theory. Whaddyado?

Dunno, maybe our only hope is for a better hacker from one of America's hundreds of adversary countries to come up with a malware program that will fill the screens in Utah (and elsewhere) with pictures of tiny angels dancing on the heads of pins.

First, I'm really pleased you watched it.

What to do? Apart from impressing it upon your elected representatives that you're not happy, the only way anything can come from this is if enough people get angry and move together as one against the government.

Snowden is trying to build the momentum and it has worked. Judging by some of the discussions even on ATS that I have seen, it has worked. We're not yet at the critical mass necessary for change but I believe it will come.

I agree, it'd be fantastic if they released something indisputable that damned a range of powerful government and judicial figures but maybe that will come in time.

We're going in the right direction and have to keep teaching and learning about it and sharing that knowledge, spreading the word, showing the proof and keep that momentum going. It's not going to happen overnight but it will happen. I really believe that, but then again, I guess I have to. The picture is too bleak to countenance otherwise.

And i laughed at your malware idea - if only and you never know.

Originally posted by covertpanther
This entire Edward Snowden thing is BLOWN up. For a reason. The media (CNN instantly) was all over the Snowden thing, it was an instant hit on youtube (how did that many people view the video on the first two days? When the general person in society doesnt give a *-* about conspiracies anyways) and its all over the internet.

You see its not about Assage or Snowden, its not about Iraq or 9/11, its not about Isreal or Iran, its not about war or money. .. Its about controlling the people of Earth to the point they are so numb they cant think or do what is moraly right.

I wish this was a wake up call; but just like Snowden it will become tomorrows nothing.

Righteous post! Star and flag.

Only because people like you sit back and do nothing.

Originally posted by Archie I agree, it'd be fantastic if they released something indisputable that damned a range of powerful government and judicial figures but maybe that will come in time.

I really hope so - in that regard there are several very intriguing remarks by Glenn Greenwald, the journalist who broke the NSA/Snowden story:

(June 9)

"We are going to have a lot more significant revelations that have not yet been heard over the next several weeks and months," said Glenn Greenwald of The Guardian.

June 11

And the most recent and detailed one dating from the 25th of June (answering a comment on the Guardian's homepage):


link

perhaps while we are all busy watching the msm tptb will pass another law or start another secret program....oh wait....they already do that!

Interesting new leak:

www.youtube.com...