Is it "insane" to talk to imaginary people? How about "talking to 'God'"?

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by adjensen

 

but unless you have evidence that proves that "God is an imaginary being," your comparison is not valid.

Yeah, ok... you make up something, and we have to prove it doesn't exist?

Who says I made something up? Do you think that the act of believing in something causes it to come into existence?

If you wish to positively aver that God does not exist, as opposed to the usual atheist position of "I have no belief in deities," then, yes, you need to provide evidence to back up that claim.

You are positing "Russel's teapot". The evidence is on the person claiming for something to exist, not on the person who says it doesn't.

ie.

Subject (A) says: There's a teapot between Earth and Mars, prove it's not real!

Subject (B) says: Prove it's actually there first dummy!

Source



If I say unicorns form dimension X sleep next to me but are invisible. Does it make it true because I said so?? Prove me wrong!

reply to post by Cuervo

He's already made the distinction.

Well, there is 2 situation here, i need answers for both.

If you are saying "I have no belief in deities", then there is no need for evidence of anything

I do not have belief in a deity = Atheist. OK we are good here.

If, however, you are insisting others believe there are no deities, you need proof.

I do not believe in a deity, because there is no evidence(you don't need to be an atheist to ask this question)? In this case... why the hell would i need to provide evidence for its non existence????

I'm not insisting others believe there is no deity, i just say show evidence then i will believe that there is a deity. Especially on being where millions of people trust in and make laws around it. i better have a HUGE evidence.

Here is the answer to this "already made up my mind and just want to get guys to back me up" post.

Beliefs are powerful indeed

Very young children 'talk to imaginery people'...

Are very young children 'insane'?

Å99

reply to post by akushla99


Its called being a child, they grow out of it? is adult a child?

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by boymonkey74
Excellent post. In my opinion thats how people become deeply committed to church, they are trained from a young age to go over and over. Imagine going to the same movie every weekend for the rest of your life.

I wouldn't mind seeing heaven every weekend for the rest of my life, but I do see the danger in it as sometimes I find myself wishing I was already there especially when confronted by some of the bad things in this movie we call reality. Not the suicidal kind of wish but more like I could just leave it all behind in a heartbeat, just step into the movie but don't expect to ever want to return once there.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by boymonkey74
Excellent post. In my opinion thats how people become deeply committed to church, they are trained from a young age to go over and over. Imagine going to the same movie every weekend for the rest of your life.

I wouldn't mind seeing heaven every weekend for the rest of my life, but I do see the danger in it as sometimes I find myself wishing I was already there especially when confronted by some of the bad things in this movie we call reality. Not the suicidal kind of wish but more like I could just leave it all behind in a heartbeat, just step into the movie but don't expect to ever want to return once there.

As simple as it sounds you have learned the lesson life is to impart, the why we are here sort of lesson. Physical life is tiresome, we all grow old get sick and die. Can't we all just get off the merry go round already?

Of course, jumping off the ride while it is in motion could void your insurance policy. Just keep your hands and feet inside at all times. When it ends, then you can get off.

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by adjensen

 

but unless you have evidence that proves that "God is an imaginary being," your comparison is not valid.

Yeah, ok... you make up something, and we have to prove it doesn't exist?

Who says I made something up? Do you think that the act of believing in something causes it to come into existence?

If you wish to positively aver that God does not exist, as opposed to the usual atheist position of "I have no belief in deities," then, yes, you need to provide evidence to back up that claim.

You are positing "Russel's teapot". The evidence is on the person claiming for something to exist, not on the person who says it doesn't.

No, not really.

As I said, the burden of proof does not hinge on "exists / does not exist", but rather on whether the claim is positing or not.

"I do not believe that deities exist" -- no proof required, because the statement is in regards to one's beliefs

"Deities do not exist" -- proof required, because the statement is in regards to the factual lack of existence of something.

Of course, it is impossible to prove a negative, particularly when the subject is claimed to be omniscient and omnipotent, but that's beside the point.

Originally posted by luciddream
I do not believe in a deity, because there is no evidence(you don't need to be an atheist to ask this question)? In this case... why the hell would i need to provide evidence for its non existence????

You don't, unless you want to say "there are no deities," which is a factual claim. Just as with any statement of fact, you need to provide evidence of that fact. Barring none, it becomes a statement of opinion, not fact.

I'm not insisting others believe there is no deity, i just say show evidence then i will believe that there is a deity.

I don't care whether you believe in God or not. Atheism is a perfectly reasonable position to hold -- I personally disagree with it, but I understand why some would come to that conclusion.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by boymonkey74
Excellent post. In my opinion thats how people become deeply committed to church, they are trained from a young age to go over and over. Imagine going to the same movie every weekend for the rest of your life.

I wouldn't mind seeing heaven every weekend for the rest of my life, but I do see the danger in it as sometimes I find myself wishing I was already there especially when confronted by some of the bad things in this movie we call reality. Not the suicidal kind of wish but more like I could just leave it all behind in a heartbeat, just step into the movie but don't expect to ever want to return once there.

What happens when I "think" I am sleeping is something so different than occational life, (happening too fast I blink its a week later, what happenned time frame). What I experience when "asleep' is what I should be experiencing in the 3d, its as if in a movie, the challenges, the potencial deaths, the adventures. what is going on here, its almost as if the sleep/dream state is replacing the actual awake state (more interesting at least).

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

Nope they are not, they are told what to believe and in many cases forced to believe it, to me this is abuse..no child should have any religion forced upon them they should be able to make up their own minds without anybody telling them their club is the way to God.

Excellent post. In my opinion thats how people become deeply committed to church, they are trained from a young age to go over and over. Imagine going to the same movie every weekend for the rest of your life.

True freedom is seeing the silliness of that. And thats why the "faithful" have to keep going. They have been conditioned from early on to practice ritualized traditions and never stop (or else).

That's something. From what I've experienced, (and I have been to kid's church), what you said seems true for many folks, as for myself, I believe that God is real, alive. I do not approve of organized religion, I do not trust them and encourage anyone else to be wary of their tactics because Organized Christianity is absolute BS.
I myself was threatened by another church member not to "forsake" the church, "Just take this as a warning." she said. Right after she said that I asked her if she remembered the pastor initiating us into the "turtle club", she said YES. I went to a very small church, in this church, it is my personal belief that the "leaders" utilize hypnosis or develope split personalities in their members. I don't care if anyone calls me crazy, facts matter to me. Organized religion is DEVIOUS, definitely not worth MY hard earned money.

Originally posted by akushla99
Very young children 'talk to imaginery people'...

Are very young children 'insane'? Å99

They are 'open', I saw beings as a four year old, they came through the window, they were greys, they took me to the place of my fathers work; and asked me to touch and do things with/to the "motors" wiring (shown to me as 16 Beagles on rails wearing super dog capes, I was asked not to peek underneath the capes just manipulate the circuitry) the rails were the loading apparatis for (NUCLEAR BOMBS) B52s at that AFB. I could interact with them but I was a child, at 6 lost that ability, because as much as I complained about being 'taken' what does Dad do exactly, no one believed me, so I stopped believing in myself. This is no joke it happened so no credibility lost. I did 'peek' and what I saw within that circuitry was what I can only describe as being told it was a sort of new "the form maker". Something so terrible and negative will make change into a positive; at that young age knew it.

reply to post by adjensen

No, not really.

As I said, the burden of proof does not hinge on "exists / does not exist", but rather on whether the claim is positing or not.

"I do not believe that deities exist" -- no proof required, because the statement is in regards to one's beliefs

"Deities do not exist" -- proof required, because the statement is in regards to the factual lack of existence of something.

Of course, it is impossible to prove a negative, particularly when the subject is claimed to be omniscient and omnipotent, but that's beside the point.

Ah, we are dealing in specifics. Your logical interpretation is true, as a factual claim such as "God doesn't exist." Would have to be proven. (Although how do we prove a negative??.)

But at the same time, as I mentioned Russel's Teapot...

I can state that all evidence suggesting god is real is not proof at all. This is something we won't have to source or debate, as it's the same argument you are positing. I can state that all "proof" for god in the past was nil, as no one throughout history has proven that god exists with any realistic type of scientific scrutiny.

In other words, god's existence has not been proven or disproven, and cannot be. (For the most part, or at our current level of understanding.)



So...

We are left with beliefs.



If a person states that they merely believe god exists, and it is in fact a belief. A rational person, whether they be atheist, agnostic, gnostic, a duck billed platypus, should be happy with that.

I'm not an atheist but I also don't hold to any religion.



My position is don't say god is real when you have nothing to back it up besides kumbayas on the campfire.

Any person stating that "God's real prove he isn't!" is treading on Russel's Teapot.

Religion itself is very close but as you stated, "God doesn't exist" is a factual statement. Which would by definition need evidence to support it.

-

This is kind of an old argument where religious leaning people state "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

Fine.

Accepted.

What evidence do we have over the years however? We have evidence of religious zealots lying, cheating and tricking people into the beliefs they peddle.

Faith healers that don't heal at all.
Religious leaders bilking money out of their followers.
Religious dwellings used for storing weapons and people during uprisings, war, guerrilla revolutions . (See Triads, FARC, Middle East mosques during conflicts, etc.
Religious backed governments using the idea of god to manipulate the populace. (See the abolition of paganism in Rome, Sharia Law in the Middle East, Christian fundamentalism in the West, etc.)

So, for arguments sake, the majority of evidence shows that people twist the fundamentals of religion for political or private gain against the followers of said religions.

This has been recorded throughout the history of nearly every religion.

Religion, as we noted in the beginning of this post is a belief. Faith, is asking people to believe something without proof. By asking people to believe in something without evidence to support the belief, you are asking people to be irrational.

This is why people see religion, faith and "beliefs" as irrational.

You can't blame them.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by akushla99

 

Its called being a child, they grow out of it? is adult a child?

That didn't answer my question...

OP asks...'Is it insane to talk to imaginery people?'...children 'talk' to imaginery people...and because the question I asked has not been answered, I can only conclude that this means that children are at some stage insane...and then 'grow out of insanity'...strange idea...

Å99

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by akushla99
Very young children 'talk to imaginery people'...

Are very young children 'insane'? Å99

They are 'open', I saw beings as a four year old, they came through the window, they were greys, they took me to the place of my fathers work; and asked me to touch and do things with/to the "motors" wiring (shown to me as 16 Beagles on rails wearing super dog capes, I was asked not to peek underneath the capes just manipulate the circuitry) the rails were the loading apparatis for (NUCLEAR BOMBS) B52s at that AFB. I could interact with them but I was a child, at 6 lost that ability, because as much as I complained about being 'taken' what does Dad do exactly, no one believed me, so I stopped believing in myself. This is no joke it happened so no credibility lost. I did 'peek' and what I saw within that circuitry was what I can only describe as being told it was a sort of new "the form maker". Something so terrible and negative will make change into a positive; at that young age knew it.

edit on 25-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

Open they are VHB...I was lucky enough to be born under an inquisitive, but cautious star...I could no sooner prove that I see the color red, than that I could hear voices...so, for others they don't exist (and I am insane) and I don't really see the color red...that would be insanity also...

Å99

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Nacirema

 

So when George Bush said God told him to invade Iraq, it's likely it was in his best interest.

Even the Muslims will tell you that the invasion of Iraq was all predicted in the Qu'ran.

Oh look how Zionists justify invading Iraq.

And yet they claim to be loveful peaceful followers of Jesus.

Maybe Arabian king puppets confirm that , but Qur'an doesn't confirm that.Unless Zionists interpret it.

There are many people who abused under the flag of relkigions.

That doesn't mean that religion is bad.

It is the ignorance that is bad.

Being sheep is bad.

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by akushla99

 

Its called being a child, they grow out of it? is adult a child?

That didn't answer my question...

OP asks...'Is it insane to talk to imaginery people?'...children 'talk' to imaginery people...and because the question I asked has not been answered, I can only conclude that this means that children are at some stage insane...and then 'grow out of insanity'...strange idea...

Å99

I always wondered about this one.

Do they actually grow out of it, or do they get medicated later in life?

Has anyone had a imaginary friend that is on medication?

I've never had one, no medicine what so ever.

reply to post by akushla99


Yes, it is "insane" to talk to imaginary people. Kids get a pass because of their growing mind and in need of a companion. Their action won't cause worldly harm Unlike the adult version.

Yes kid are "insane" but adults imaginary friends are deadly.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
Is it "insane" to talk to imaginary people? How about "talking to 'God'"?

Yes. Both are examples of certifiable insanity.

The reason "praying" is accepted as something approaching normal behavious is because when billions do it, it's kind of hard to institutionalise all of them.