Pelosi booed for saying NSA leaker Snowden violated the law!! BOOOOO!!!

This subject highlights in the starkest possible terms, the difference between law, and justice. The fact that Mr Snowden knowingly broke the law pertaining to his employment, to the information he distributed, is not in question. The fact that legally speaking he is considered a traitor, is not in any doubt. But in terms of wether his actions were just in the face of the behavior of his government, of his employer, I think there is just as little room for doubt.

He has given the people of the USA, and indeed the entire world, a glimpse at the crimes committed against them, by not just one of the most powerful nations on the planet, but also a nation which has been one of the most outspoken advocates of freedom from tyranny, freedom from oppressive government measures, a nation which has used its platform as such an advocate, to justify its military actions in the last twenty plus years, and has been caught out in one of the most Orwellian programs ever to disgrace a nations intelligence budget.

There is a phrase which goes "What is right is not always popular, and what is popular is not always right." a phrase which I personally have lived my life by, among other useful mottos and ideas. I think we can ammend that in this case, to "What is legal is not always just, and what is just is not always legal."

It takes massive balls, and a deeply rooted sense of right and wrong, to face up to a tyrannical structure such as the one which government of the US, and the government of the UK for that matter, have created, and speak out despite all the propeganda, all the laws, the threats, the danger of doing so, not just of imprisonment, but of physical abuse and even death. Locking this man up for what he did, would not be like putting a violent career criminal in irons, it would not be like shackling the bigwigs who bought down the banks, or the people who have been involved in swindling governments out of billions of pounds and dollars in dodgy contracting being put into solitary. The motivations for clearly unjust acts give no hint of selflessness, are based in the most base and disgusting parts of mans nature.

What Snowden has done however, is a truely good and selfless act. He has placed himself in danger, that you and I can be free to know the truth, to discuss it, to go about our lives in a position of understanding what is happening around us. He can expect no peace, to have to look over his shoulder every day, for the rest of his life, however long that may or may not be expected to last, and he did all that, risked it all, because it was the just thing to do, despite its being illegal.

The law, it is said, is an ass, and every now and again we get a little reminder of that fact, that unaddressed fact. Well this is not a little reminder. This is like a wake up call, with a brass band, sixteen gun salute and a thermonuclear firework display, in honour of that truth. And lets be honest about this, the laws he broke are just a drop in the ocean of statutes which prevent justice from being done. You will find in nearly every part of the law, those pertaining to the military, the police force, the legal proffession itself, family law, criminal law, patent law, law which governs politics, and every other facet of law, elements which prevent justice being done, elements which make criminals out of the righteous, and uphold the rights of total bastards, over those of honest people.

What Snowden did was illegal, but it wasnt wrong, it was not unjust, it was not done out of evil, but out of respect for the people of his country, and of the planet in a wider sense, who were living under a false impression of freedom, when in fact they are under the most draconian monitoring policy that one could possibly concieve of. He did what I would expect of any one of us here, anyone with a mind not so bogged down in the lies it hears that it begins to believe them, anyone I respect, to do. The man is a bloody hero, and he will be damned for it by his own government, because hypocrisy is thier methodology, a hypocrisy he eschewed.

God Bless Edward Snowden.

hey to quote our next president "what difference does it make".

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
She's correct, he did violate the law.
That doesn't make his actions any less valiant or morally righteous.

Here is where I disagree. When the govt breaks the law of the land, violating it's citizen's constitutional rights, it is the OBLIGATION of anyone who can expose this to do so. This is not only morally right, but the right thing to do with regards to anyone who takes the oath to uphold the constitution.

Whatever laws that congress pass that violates the constitution are void and illegal unless a constitutional amendment is passed granting congress that authority. Whatever actions congress, the administration or the judicial branch take that is in violation of the constitution are illegal.

The man (Snowden) is a patriot. This is my opinion.

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by starfoxxx
People just waiting and hoping to see Snowden go down make me sick!!! Talking about Bush, and dick cheney is really asinine at this point....

Is there anything that doesn't cause you to beat the exclam key to death and make personal attacks on Pelosi? Bush and Cheney instigated all of this. Eddie Snowden got his panties in a twist and decided to spill his guts. He started believing that he was some kind of hero. He likes being important and the center of attention. Now he will live [or not] with the consequences. He doesn't know that he is only an expendable pawn in a big international chess game. When he is no longer useful to other countries, he'll be turned over to the Feds and will get to hang out with Brad Manning for the next 20 years or so.

Ah yes...the current administration and his party are blameless. Disregard the scandals surfacing which indicate a total trashing of our constitution. Let's just do as Obama has done the last 5 years and blame it on the previous administration.

Sarcasm aside....Obama is guilty for whatever has transpired on his watch, Bush is guilty for what transpired during his watch. Please try to exercise some reason and logic (I know how difficult that can be for kool-aid drinkers) and put things into perspective.

Our govt is run by the 2 party system which pretty much guarantees conflict....however if you havent noticed before, for the last 20-40 years their ultimate aims are one and the same.

Who voted for the Patriot Act? Both parties. Who is supporting the current status of disregarding our constitutional rights? Both parties. Who should we blame for tramping on our rights? Both parties.....

To persist and blame a single party (either one) for what is obviously being done by both is ignorance at best, malicious stupidity at worst.

Thanks for the video, that was awesome. I've come to the understanding that things aren't always what they seem to be, and it's always a bit more complicated that what we initially think. Whatever the deal is, and whether it does apply to this situation IDK but they do like to control every side. Still, go Snow!

reply to post by SaturnFX


Thank you and whyamIhere!

Is there any way to find out the exact charges the government filed against him? I guess I do not understand how they could charge him with espionage? Don't you have to be proven a spy, which wouldn't that mean he would be working for someone else first?

I really am trying to look at this from both sides, but I thought the government was all about protecting whistleblowers? I guess that only applies when it isn't against the government?

Oh, think I found the charges:

Snowden was charged with theft of government property, unauthorized communication of national defense information and willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person, the document said.

Found here

Which just makes me ask another question. Is the American public the "unauthorized person"?

Originally posted by CircleOfDust
Thanks for the video, that was awesome. I've come to the understanding that things aren't always what they seem to be, and it's always a bit more complicated that what we initially think. Whatever the deal is, and whether it does apply to this situation IDK but they do like to control every side. Still, go Snow!

You know I was loosing hope, ALOT OF HOPE, but when i saw this video, I saw people NOT CHEERING!!
It let me know that people STILL HAVE A BRAIN and are NOT stupid.. Would the folks here who are against snowden rather see the crowd CHEER for this turkey neck, lying to their faces?? THIS VIDEO gives me HOPE, there are REAL AMERICANS speaking out!!

" SHAMELESS " doesn't even begin to describe the total hypocrisy of our so called "elected" government. In my lifetime "Tricky Dick" was forced to resign for wire taping on one of "their" own...I guess that's a "No No" ...God forbid we know THEIR dirty secrets, protest THEIR dirty dealings......"Shut-Up....you anti-American terrorist, this is necessary for YOUR safety !

I recently watched an older show called " Prison Break ", you can find it on-line, and while it is a TV drama, it really was interesting how the "Company" had the power to ruin lives if you refuse to do THEIR bidding they will make your life a living hell....not that far away from real life politics...this man is a Hero......







Remember this bunch of BS.......

Pelosi, along with a number of other politicians, including the president, are making this issue regarding whole scale surveillance as a necessary balance between 'security' and 'privacy'; this is the theme in which they are trying to steer the debate, and to try and get you to believe that it is all common sense and practical to make it so. Basically, they want your agreement and compliance whilst still surveilling you even as the debate rages.

I would suggest (assuming you actually give a damn?) that if you are against the surveillance, and the unwarranted intrusion into your privacy, you meet the debate with an absolute 'no compromise' stance...your privacy isn't even on the table, it's not up for debate, it's not for erosion, it's not to be touched at all or diminished, or for the taking away. Simply put, freedoms and all aspects of freedoms, are not for bargaining, and when you elect a person to either state or federal office, you charge him with your vote to protect your freedoms and all their aspects, his conscience (informing him how he votes in the house or senate) has to be directed by this one charge of office.

This 'no compromise' stance has to be based upon your perseverance and fortitude in the direst of circumstances. No matter what your enemies ('foreign' or the more insidious and damaging 'domestic') throw at you, you do not relinquish an inch of your freedoms as constituted by the founding of your country. No matter how many lives are lost; no matter how harsh your domestic systems are wielded against you, you do not allow any compromise or change to your freedoms in any way, shape or form or reason. You do not change the way you live or go about your daily lives, because if you do, your enemies have already won.

When the IRA were bombing mainland Britain, specifically England, the government did not resort to changing freedoms of the people in any way shape or form, nor did the people allow any change to how they went about their lives. The government did not resort to surveilling every single citizen of either Northern or Southern Ireland, nor of the rest of the UK, nor any of the many Americans whom helped to fund the IRA to bomb the cities of England and kill or maim innocent people.

Diminishing your personal privacy for security is not in any way to be considered as a balancing act, it is in fact an act of 'imbalance', and the the coward's route to electronic tyranny firstly, and social tyranny secondly, sometime in the future. If you do not act in the present moment against this; if you remain inert awaiting for others to make the first move, you will help create an American nightmare in place of the American dream. I's up to you.

Originally posted by bbracken677

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by starfoxxx
People just waiting and hoping to see Snowden go down make me sick!!! Talking about Bush, and dick cheney is really asinine at this point....

Is there anything that doesn't cause you to beat the exclam key to death and make personal attacks on Pelosi? Bush and Cheney instigated all of this. Eddie Snowden got his panties in a twist and decided to spill his guts. He started believing that he was some kind of hero. He likes being important and the center of attention. Now he will live [or not] with the consequences. He doesn't know that he is only an expendable pawn in a big international chess game. When he is no longer useful to other countries, he'll be turned over to the Feds and will get to hang out with Brad Manning for the next 20 years or so.

Ah yes...the current administration and his party are blameless. Disregard the scandals surfacing which indicate a total trashing of our constitution. Let's just do as Obama has done the last 5 years and blame it on the previous administration.

Sarcasm aside....Obama is guilty for whatever has transpired on his watch, Bush is guilty for what transpired during his watch. Please try to exercise some reason and logic (I know how difficult that can be for kool-aid drinkers) and put things into perspective.

Our govt is run by the 2 party system which pretty much guarantees conflict....however if you havent noticed before, for the last 20-40 years their ultimate aims are one and the same.

Who voted for the Patriot Act? Both parties. Who is supporting the current status of disregarding our constitutional rights? Both parties. Who should we blame for tramping on our rights? Both parties.....

To persist and blame a single party (either one) for what is obviously being done by both is ignorance at best, malicious stupidity at worst.

The comments I made were a result of an earlier exchange regarding who should be jailed. Bush/Cheney were first in line. Pelosi is a small fry.

Do try to follow the thread before tripping into the malicious stupidity trap while busy ranting about kool aid.

It is my firm belief that the laws below need to be applied to everyone to the exact same degree. In this specific case we are talking about one person though so with that being said which of these laws didn't he break? (I added the numbers in bold to break this out into a list more)

"Criminal Penalties
1. Generally, federal law prescribes a prison sentence of no more than a year and/or a $1,000 fine
for officers and employees of the federal government who knowingly remove classified material
without the authority to do so and with the intention of keeping that material at an unauthorized
location.53 2. Stiffer penalties—fines of up to $10,000 and imprisonment for up to 10 years—attach
when a federal employee transmits classified information to anyone that the employee has reason
to believe is an agent of a foreign government.54 3. A fine and a 10-year prison term also await
anyone, government employee or not, who publishes, makes available to an unauthorized person,
or otherwise uses to the United States’ detriment classified information regarding the codes,
cryptography, and communications intelligence utilized by the United States or a foreign
government.55 4. Finally, the disclosure of classified information that discloses any information
identifying a covert agent, when done intentionally by a person with authorized access to such
identifying information, is punishable by imprisonment for up to 15 years.56 A similar disclosure
by one who learns the identity of a covert agent as a result of having authorized access to
classified information is punishable by not more than 10 years’ imprisonment. Under the same
provision, a person who undertakes a “pattern of activities intended to identify and expose covert
agents” with reason to believe such activities would impair U.S. foreign intelligence activities,
and who then discloses the identities uncovered as a result is subject to three years’ imprisonment,
whether or not violator has access to classified information.57


LAW 1
Their is no way to argue against his breaking number 1. Their is no "he is a hero so that should be overlooked" It's a cut, dried , logical and legal law. He broke it like anyone else would have that has or had a clearance and didn't follow the legal and correct procedures for handling classified information.

If the facts come out supporting his version of the story then I hope he is given 1 sentence for breaking this law vs 1 for each time he broke it.

LAW 2
As it stands currently I have not seen any proof indicating that he has broken this law. I am sure their are people against him that will say when he was in China and\or Russia this took place. Unless their is proof of this then I am not sure how you can enforce it.

LAW 3
Number 3 seems pretty clear but because his intent is open to interpretation I am not sure how you could accurately rule on either. At the surface it seems like he clearly violated this law but was it to the detriment of the US, that is a cloudier section.

LAW 4
Much like law 2 I have not seen anything indicating he has done this.
If it comes out that he has then not only is he a criminal but also the ruling of treason could easily be applied.

I ended an earlier post with the following and still believe it but will add to it.
Anyone blindly calling him a hero is wrong
Anyone blindly calling him a traitor is wrong.
To this point he appears to be a heroic criminal.

"The fact is that you should reject any notion that President Obama's actions have anything to do with what President Bush was doing or was done," Pelosi said, adding that there was no Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court under the Bush administration

Oh the same old song and dance of 'Blame Bush' which is par for the course as Pelosi knows this:

Months before the Oklahoma City bombing took place, Biden introduced another bill called the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995. It previewed the 2001 Patriot Act by allowing secret evidence to be used in prosecutions, expanding the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and wiretap laws, creating a new federal crime of “terrorism” that could be invoked based on political beliefs, permitting the U.S. military to be used in civilian law enforcement, and allowing permanent detention of non-U.S. citizens without judicial review.* The Center for National Security Studies said the bill would erode “constitutional and statutory due process protections” and would “authorize the Justice Department to pick and choose crimes to investigate and prosecute based on political beliefs and assocLinkiations.”

www.washingtonsblog.com...

Never read the patriot act huh? All they have to say is it's for national security and that makes it legal.

Which they have been doing long before GWB ever came along.

Originally posted by elysiumfire
Pelosi, along with a number of other politicians, including the president, are making this issue regarding whole scale surveillance as a necessary balance between 'security' and 'privacy'; this is the theme in which they are trying to steer the debate, and to try and get you to believe that it is all common sense and practical to make it so. Basically, they want your agreement and compliance whilst still surveilling you even as the debate rages.

Beautifully said....it's kinda like "it's easier to ask for forgiveness then permission" .......and we all know the reason that is done is because the answer would have been NO if asked.......I think we all need to shout from the rooftops how we don't want this....The outright lies and back peddling are disgraceful...and an insult to the intelligence of the majority of people who don't want this.......the problem is it is being made perfectly clear..."Too bad, Too sad, we're are doing whether you like it or not "

Yeah, Yeah, write your representatives......what a joke.....

reply to post by starfoxxx


He violated the law. But, the law violated the Constitution. Major difference there is the fact, the law was illegal in the first place. People who have put in the place the practice which is against the law (NSA practices were against even the Patriot Act), have themselves conducted crime. And the President, who by his office should be the defender of the Constitution, by approving such laws, has truly conducted a treason. So, breaking such law - is not a crime at all. That is the right of the citizen to step up, and show first through disobedience and then - if that would not work - through action righteousness path back to the Constitution.

Adding to this the fact, the same cabal asided Paul, to remain in power, and by any means have asided rights of the citizen - puts US of A into a path of conflict, between the interests of elite in power, the order-keepers of NWO, and that of the nation itself.

This BS coming out of Pelosi and that gang of out-right liers (they have lied in Congress, on media, on every occasion) makes this much worse than Watergate, much worse than EVER in the history of USA has ever taken place. And that, is not a crime from Ed Snowden, but a crime and treason from those in power.

At this point, people do not want to see explanations coming out from these treacherous villains. People want justice, and those behind these series of unconstitutional acts charged for their actions.

OR a chance to re-elect, and re-state the government. Right now. Re-elections nationwide. End the talk, and resign. Let the people decide!

26 - 28 second mark, right after the booing, it sounded like somebody yelled out "RON PAUL!"


Pelosi showed her true colors a long time ago. There is only a small handful of government officials backing Snowden and his mission and I don't think I have to name them.

How and WHY these people are still in office; and not serving a lengthy prison sentence is MIND BOGGLING!

Originally posted by WonderBoi
How and WHY these people are still in office; and not serving a lengthy prison sentence is MIND BOGGLING!

Lengthy prison sentence my a$$, I don't want to have to support them with my tax dollars I've done that long enough already. I'm a Clint Eastwood western fan myself and my favorite movie of his is "Hang 'em High".

Originally posted by supremecommander
Another traitorous bitch.

I honestly become ill when I listen to people of her ilk talk. She is no countrywoman of mine.

Yep she is a total tool of the Totalitarian NWO.

Originally posted by Nucleardiver

Originally posted by WonderBoi
How and WHY these people are still in office; and not serving a lengthy prison sentence is MIND BOGGLING!

Lengthy prison sentence my a$$, I don't want to have to support them with my tax dollars I've done that long enough already. I'm a Clint Eastwood western fan myself and my favorite movie of his is "Hang 'em High".

edit on 24-6-2013 by Nucleardiver because: (no reason given)

We could send Pelosi to Cuba where she can experience the Communism she preaches.

reply to post by MountainLaurel


Underlines how people will say literally anything to get elected, then turn around and do the exact bidding of the Power Elite.