Project Identification: Ufology's Red-Headed Stepchild

Originally posted by MDDoxs
I will tell you why Project Identification was not discussed all that much nor continues to be a text which is often referenced; it is because it put to much distance between beliefs and reality that the die hard believers founds bitter tasting.

Contemporary writers whom look to take a more academic approach to Ufology or the paranormal, regardless of how disproving their results are, leave room for the mystery and the possibility of the unknown.

I have noticed this trend in modern academia in which to hold the public's attention beyond a flashy head line is to spice things up a bit, dare i say make a show of your research. Grant it, this is the fundamentals of being a good communicator, but there are critics that being overly concerned with presentation distracts from the hard research, but i digress.

To reiterate, the hardline position Rutledge took on his research made it unappealing to public at large.

Of course this is all just my opinion.

Yeah, good observations from another angle, MDD.

I personally believe that many of our so-called ufologists have been disingenuous in under reporting--or not reporting at all--the high-strangeness aspects of many of their case histories.

If it's there, it's there and should be factored in.

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by The GUT

 

...It makes me wonder why Hynek didn't investigate more thoroughly. It seems like this would have been his sort of "dream case". By the time the Piedmont situation was going on it was an open secret that Hynek was more on board with the "something is out there" crowd than the "it's all explainable" crowd...

No only was Hynek a believer by this time, he was also leaning towards the early ideas between himself and Jacques Vallee that make up the basics of the Interdimensional Hypothesis.

How many are familiar the fact that J. Allen Hynek was a sincere and knowledgeable Rosicrucian for many years? Jacques has tread those pathways and more. Forbidden Science II for those unfamiliar with it is Vallee's diary entries from years past. It's a who's who of scientists, R & D researchers, ufologists, occultists and contactees of all sorts. Dr. Vallee is very revealing in the book and I feel he leaves many clues for us to follow as well as opens up about his esoteric journeys and some of the spooks and seminal weird science researchers of our age.

Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Rosicrucianism, and UFOs

No human wants to believe that there are other creatures out there that are more intelligent in every single way imaginable and especially in ways we cannot imagine. That is one major reason why the US government has been so successfully in over half a century of not letting that Pandora's Box be opened even a sliver. No scientists wants to learn that his universe just crashed. When he is forced to discover that UFOs are genuine craft manned by superior ETs, then instantly his beliefs, attitudes and certificates of accomplishments hanging on his office wall are humanities joke upon its own kind, evidence of its own folly. So Science as a field tends to avoid the whole issue with rare exceptions for its own protection.

As I recently posted on another thread, the short answer to the situation is best answered by the response vehemently stated by Jack Nickelson in the movie, A Few Good Men:

"You want the truth? You want the truth? You can't handle the truth."

No human wants to believe that there are other creatures out there that are more intelligent in every single way imaginable and especially in ways we cannot imagine. That is one major reason why the US government has been so successfully in over half a century of not letting that Pandora's Box be opened even a sliver. No scientists wants to learn that his universe just crashed. When he is forced to discover that UFOs are genuine craft manned by superior ETs, then instantly his beliefs, attitudes and certificates of accomplishments hanging on his office wall are humanities joke upon its own kind, evidence of its own folly. So Science as a field tends to avoid the whole issue with rare exceptions for its own protection.

As I recently posted on another thread, the short answer to the situation is best answered by the response vehemently stated by Jack Nickelson in the movie, A Few Good Men:

"You want the truth? You want the truth? You can't handle the truth."

You know what I love about these types of threads?
There are no debunkers!

There isn't anything here for them to get their claws into. This is where the meat of UFOlogy is. Not YouTube videos. I really appreciate the opportunity to be able to discuss these things without having to defend against people who are simply looking to poke holes in theories.

GUT!

I think signalfire may be on the right track here in regards to the plasma aspect of the phenomena. This is, of course, subject to change, but I cannot easily reconsile the fact that many of these witnesses are re)orting actual craft. The two must be related.

Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity
Nice thread T.G. Good researching.

As you noted, the probability of ET life visiting Earth definitely exists. And the probability of ET life visiting Earth clearly increases as the number of civilizations increases.

There could be billions, or even hundreds of billions of civilizations in the Milky Way Galaxy. Assuming that 20-30 percent have reached the capability of interstellar travel, there could be millions or even billions of civilizations visiting the many planets of the galaxy. Even with so many planets in the galaxy, the likelihood of at least one of those civilizations to visit Earth would be modest, but not small.

But then again, there could be no aliens whatsoever, and we're really being visited by top secret craft, or just balloons, and RC planes.

Hey, thank you and of course you are right. The mathematical probability cannot be overlooked. If we separate the nuts & bolts sightings from the contact accounts then that probability goes up, but we still have the undeniable high-strangeness details of so many encounters that seem to suggest, then, at the very least, that we are dealing with at least two different phenomenon.

A separate, but related issue, is the question of where have these types of cases gone?
They simply don't happen anymore.
I personally feel it is because the intelligence behind it realizes that, in this day and age, they will get caught if they operate so openly...BUT this also contributes directly to the "falling off" of the field of UFOlogy.

reply to post by The GUT
I am familiar. In fact it was you who pointed me in the right direction, which makes it all the more suspicious that Hynek just made an appearance and left in such a hurry! The materials you led me to reinforced my original leanings in many aspects and let me know I wasn't alone in my thought processes. In case I didn't thank you, I owe you a gratitude!!!

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by The GUT

 

I am familiar. In fact it was you who pointed me in the right direction, which makes it all the more suspicious that Hynek just made an appearance and left in such a hurry! The materials you led me to reinforced my original leanings in many aspects and let me know I wasn't alone in my thought processes. In case I didn't thank you, I owe you a gratitude!!!

Duh me, of course we've plumbed these depths before. And be assured, I learn from thee as well.

After my recent vacation of about a year from ATS, I'm surprised to find so much good conversation going on even though the signal to noise ratio has gotten ever-more deafening so to speak.

And yes, the close encounter cases often do exhibit spiritual themes don't they? How complex and yet how thrilling it all is to contemplate.

Originally posted by JayinAR
A separate, but related issue, is the question of where have these types of cases gone?
They simply don't happen anymore.
I personally feel it is because the intelligence behind it realizes that, in this day and age, they will get caught if they operate so openly...BUT this also contributes directly to the "falling off" of the field of UFOlogy.

There has obviously been a sharp decrease in both nuts & bolts reports as well as high-strangeness cases.

That could be a rare mark on the board for the 'it's all in our heads" theory. Meaning, maybe the internet has taken some of our hope away. When can search the collective data-base of hard facts and world-class speculation and reporting, but we are still left baffled. I have to consider that if I'm being openminded. It's still a distant #3 on my list though.

reply to post by The GUT
Yes, the noise can be rattling, but you did decide to rejoin the conversations at the same time the kiddies got out of school for the summer so it is par for the course. I am truly excited that you have returned and I have missed our dialogue, and many others have missed you as well. Thought provoking threads have become increasingly rare and some days it seems that "those who dwell beneath the bridge" have taken over. We need you to stir the pot that is our minds and cause us to consider what might otherwise be overlooked. I hope very much that you are back to stay!

reply to post by The GUT


The psychological theory is most likely correct, by my estimation...but not in the way most people consider it.

The other thread of Mr. Mask's, if you haven't read my last post, please do so.
The only way that the psychological explanation holds weight is if we drastically misunderstand the very nature of our reality, which I actually suspect we do.

The fact that multiple people can attest to the fact that the SAME "imaginary" event is, in fact, VERY REAL suggests that we are creating the illusion of life with these beautiful brains we have. We know they are like super computers as far as computing power goes... if they are somehow linked together, we may have a neural network going that is so damn powerful it creates its own reality.

This would explain why I can mentally invite an experience so powerful that it physically manifests, real time, in such a way that my loved ones experience its effects as well.

We need a national debate on the issue.
Set this up and watch the reports soar.

While 60% of folks believe they are real, believe it or not, back in the day the number was even higher and people spoke about it more freely.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by The GUT

 

The psychological theory is most likely correct, by my estimation...but not in the way most people consider it...

...The only way that the psychological explanation holds weight is if we drastically misunderstand the very nature of our reality, which I actually suspect we do...

...This would explain why I can mentally invite an experience so powerful that it physically manifests, real time, in such a way that my loved ones experience its effects as well...

Yep, that would be my #4: Kind of a Jung meets Vallee type of thing.

reply to post by JayinAR
I have always considered something similar in regards to the whole Fatima thing, wondering if the shared sighting of the phenomena that happened involving the sun might have been generated by the very crowd that witnessed it, but only as one of many theories.

Ya know, I think the variety of different descriptions in the "solid craft" reports of the Piedmont Flap actually puts a mark in the IDH column. That's a lot of different models in a condensed period of time.

Then again, I guess the argument could be made that it was--oddly like Project Identification itself only bigger and a bit more technologically advanced haha--an intensive study of us incorporating a fleet of different craft for specific jobs.

Oy, I feel like I'm playing the ufology version of pong meets space invaders.

reply to post by The GUT


To paraphrase Einstein: "anything the human mind can imagine, the human body can achieve."

To quote JK Rowling: "professor, is this all in my head, or is it actually happening?"

"Of course it is all in your head, Harry...but, does that make it any less real?"

If we can overcome the stigma of the field, created and protected by the "control" Vallee speaks of, we can create a paradise here on Earth.
This can ONLY be achieved through debate.

That's the idea anyways.

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by JayinAR

 

I have always considered something similar in regards to the whole Fatima thing, wondering if the shared sighting of the phenomena that happened involving the sun might have been generated by the very crowd that witnessed it, but only as one of many theories.

Yeah Fatima is very interesting indeed and seems--as others have suggested--Vallee included, to exhibit many of the hallmarks of a phenomena that's been with us since recorded time. So a Jungian spin-off has to be a player anyways it would seem.

reply to post by The GUT
Well, the spiritual aspect would certainly play in, so maybe a Jung meets Pong meets Inter/Extra Dimensionalism meets Firestarter!

reply to post by littled16


I would say that is a strong possibility. Although, believe it or not, I am not very well versed on Fatima at all. I have skimmed it a few times, but since it has always been attributed to a religious event, I have ignored it much like I do cases of Stigmata and whatnot.

I am coming to the point where I realize I need to overturn those stones, but I haven't gotten to Fatima yet.

I understand there were prophesies and stuff involved...
Alright, well check this...
...in this model, the prophesies are easily explained. Even up to the point we find ourselves at now.
According to the prophecy, this pope was to be the last. And to be honest, right up until the new pope's appointment, I was strongly considering these prophecies to be pretty strong hits.

Why did we deviate? Because we knew what was up and we didn't want (collectively) all of this to crash and burn.

Quite elegant, really.

I just realized that saying "believe it or not" sounds a bit pompous.

That wasn't my intention.
When I say that I simply mean it one of the greatest events in known history and I have deliberately ignored it in my UFO research.

I only touch on the religious stuff argumentively, for the most part