"The Rod for the Disobedient" - Wife Beating in Islam

reply to post by WilsonWilson


I didn't bash any person. I presented a video with strong evidence and I challenged any muslim member to debunk it. Nobody could deny it so far. Actually, one of them confirmed it. You want to close your eyes and ears, that's fine. You can't hande it.

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by Gazrok

 

"Did I miss something in the OP video? I couldn't hear the sound where I am, but I read all of the subtitles. This video (from the subtitles) is clearly telling men NOT to beat their wives, and certainly NOT to use the rods he showed in the beginning, but the instructions were more like spanking a child (i.e. no marks on body and face, etc"

To me the mere fact that he is displaying different types of rods/sticks/weapons that are obviously intended for the purpose of beating Woman and children is bad enough!

He then he goes on to imply that there is some kind of conduct involved with said act, no visible marks, cant hit them on the head and so on.

All I can say to that is im sure glad that I live in a country that respects both sexes, and trys to at least honour its citizens Human rights.

Exactly. Coming from a mod, such a comment is nothing less than remarkable. The topic of this discussion is so uncomfortable for some people here, maybe is also inconvenient in a commercial sense,....if you know what I mean

Originally posted by intrepid
I've got the scars to prove it.

Sorry to hear that. Really.

Considering your background, I would think that you'd be the first person here to acknowledge abuse and/or potential abuse and/or subjugation .... of children in public school or catholic school or protestant schools ... of Amish children and women in their closed society ... of the guilt and subjugation used by some fundamentalist protestant groups against women and children as well as in the St. Pope Pius X society in Catholicism ... the use of Onanism and guilt by the Catholic church to try to use women as breeding stock ... of the use of the bible by certain protestant men to subjugate wives (Colossians 3:18) .. the violence against women and the misogyny that is inherent in Islam ... etc etc

It's there. It needs to be acknowledged. That's the only way it will change.
I think all that is worthy of hate. Not every belief or practice is worthy of respect.


ETA .. and before someone says that we don't have a right to change others ... I am saying 'change through exposing evil and through education'. I'm not saying change things at the point of a sword or at the end of a gun or with force. Talking about it and acknowledging it is how to get positive change happening ....

So how prevalent is wife-beating in Islam? Is it a normal everyday occurrence or is it dying out? Is it practiced more by Sunni or Shia? Is it more of a poor-countries thing and less of a thing in the oil-rich Mideast? Is it more prevalent in Pakistan than in Turkey? What percentage of Muslims consider wife-beating appropriate? What muslim clerics oppose wife-beating? What did Mohammed say on it?

I guess these are questions unasked because they interfere with the line of pro/con generalizations of "Muslims are Wife Beaters". And Im no smarter reading this thread.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
So how prevalent is wife-beating in Islam? Is it a normal everyday occurrence or is it dying out? Is it practiced more by Sunni or Shia? Is it more of a poor-countries thing and less of a thing in the oil-rich Mideast? Is it more prevalent in Pakistan than in Turkey? What percentage of Muslims consider wife-beating appropriate? What muslim clerics oppose wife-beating? What did Mohammed say on it?

I guess these are questions unasked because they interfere with the line of pro/con generalizations of "Muslims are Wife Beaters". And Im no smarter reading this thread.

Your question is impossible to answer. I tell you why, with another question :

How many "muslim wife beaters" do you think will confess it in public, even if they don't need to post their real name ?

Numbers won't be representative.

reply to post by Skyfloating


"So how prevalent is wife-beating in Islam? Is it a normal everyday occurrence or is it dying out? Is it practiced more by Sunni or Shia?"

Considering the fact that there are videos like the one in this thread, and many more if you care to Google them I imagine it must be rather prevalent in there society.

www.youtube.com...

www.mrconservative.com...

Never mind the rest of the crap that Sharia law promotes!

Originally posted by andy06shake
I imagine it must be rather prevalent in there society.

You imagine?

Do you know any muslim wife personally who is being beaten? I know a few personally, and there is no indication that they are beaten. Thats why Id prefer facts and stats and the official statements of well-known clerics on wife-beating in Islam.

reply to post by Skyfloating


"Thats why Id prefer facts and stats and the official statements of clerics on wife-beating in Islam."

Good luck with that mate, I don't see said clerics providing you with such statistics myself, you can but hope I suppose.

That would be like a priest breaking the confessional oath, would it not?

reply to post by Skyfloating

It depends on the country. Here's Saudi Arabia ...

Arab News

In a survey conducted by the National Family Safety Program, 70 percent of all Saudis said there is domestic violence in Saudi Arabia. About 65 percent of the respondents said domestic violence is perpetrated by husbands, while 92.1 percent assert that those perpetrators must be punished. Moreover, 88.5 percent of the Saudis surveyed said that women subjected to domestic violence need protection.

However, the program noted that most of the Kingdom’s health and law institutions have no “documented and comprehensive procedures to deal with domestic violence.”

Women in the World

According to the Riyadh-based National Family Safety Program, one in every six women is abused verbally, physically, or emotionally every day in Saudi Arabia, and 90 percent of the abusers are usually husbands or fathers.

Originally posted by andy06shake


That would be like a priest breaking the confessional oath, would it not?

If wife-beating is appropriate in muslim culture, dont you think a few well-known clerics would say so?

And wouldnt it be officially legal in some countries? (Maybe it is...I dont know...thats why Im asking).

reply to post by FlyersFan


Ah...there we go. Some official stats. Very helpful

reply to post by Skyfloating


"If wife-beating is appropriate in muslim culture, dont you think a few well-known clerics would say so?"

Simple answer is no I don't think Muslim clerics would come out with information that would only hinder the opinion of their faith anymore than I think Christian clerics would do so.

My opinion, organised religion is kind of closed off to constructive criticism especially from within!

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by andy06shake
I imagine it must be rather prevalent in there society.

You imagine?

Do you know any muslim wife personally who is being beaten? I know a few personally, and there is no indication that they are beaten. Thats why Id prefer facts and stats and the official statements of well-known clerics on wife-beating in Islam.

edit on 21-6-2013 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)

Their laws says the punishment had to target parts that are not sensible, no bleeding or broken bones and not in the face. Islam women have most of their body covered. How can you say if they are beaten or not????

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by andy06shake


That would be like a priest breaking the confessional oath, would it not?

If wife-beating is appropriate in muslim culture, dont you think a few well-known clerics would say so?

And wouldnt it be officially legal in some countries? (Maybe it is...I dont know...thats why Im asking).

How many more videos you need ? Because I'm convinced.

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by andy06shake


That would be like a priest breaking the confessional oath, would it not?

If wife-beating is appropriate in muslim culture, dont you think a few well-known clerics would say so?

And wouldnt it be officially legal in some countries? (Maybe it is...I dont know...thats why Im asking).

How many more videos you need ? Because I'm convinced.

I have put up a video proving that this wife beating issue is a non issue but you have refused to watch it. Funny thing is your rejection was based upon your own presumptions .

reply to post by 23432


The video you posted is 40+ min's long, that maybe how people(Myself included) have failed to watch it in its entirety. Can you please summarize or atleast give us the time stamp that proves how this is it a non issue?

Im all up for being proven wrong if that's the case.

Here is some food for thought if you have a spare 2 mins. And this is happening in the UK!

www.bbc.co.uk... (2mins)

www.youtube.com... (30mins)

Violence against women in Jordan UN Report

In addition, the study inferred that one third of the sample population have indicated that they
have heard or seen cases of domestic violence. Moreover, nearly 11% of the sample indicated
9that they themselves have physically abused their sons, daughters, wife and mother in the 12
months preceding the study. Further questioning within the aforementioned study, indicates
that 60% and 40% of the interviewees have verbally and physically abused a member of their
family.

According to the CEDAW third and fourth periodical report, 56% of the sexual abuse victims
that were registered atthe Family Protection Department between the years 2001 – 2004 were
females. The percentage is slightly less for physical abuse whereby 50% of the victims were
females for the same period. However, it is worth noting that while physical abuse cases
registered at Family Protection Department were 100% caused by a family member compared
to 7.8% ofsexual abuse casesthat were caused by amember ofthe family.

Available literature on domestic violence in Jordan indicates that women are more likely to be
subjected to violence than male members of the family. Similarly, studies available provide
evidence that forms of violence include a wide range of physical, sexual, psychological, verbal,
economic and social abuse, “honour crimes”, early marriages and deprivation of right to
inheritance are also practiced in Jordan.

More at the site ...

EGYPT -

Most crimes of violence against women and children go unreported.
There are no safety nets for the victims.
And it's considered disrespectful or dishonorable or disobedient to report the crimes.

ONE THIRD of wives are abused by their husbands in Egypt.

Domestic Violence HIgh in Egypt

May 2010) Violence against women is a costly and pervasive public health problem and a violation of human rights. In Egypt, a third of women are physically abused by their husbands, according to the 2005 Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (DHS). Most victims suffer silently and don’t seek help to prevent or stop the violence because they think it is part of life or they are embarrassed by the abuse.

Violence against women in Egypt, particularly spousal violence, is rooted in the subordinate position of women in the family and society. The stigma against divorced women, for example, puts Egyptian women who had a previous marriage at highest risk of abuse; they are twice as likely as women who are in their first marriage to be physically abused by their husband recently (during the 12 months prior to the DHS)

Egypt Independent

Domestic violence is an especially sensitive issue because it is typically associated with conflict between husband and wife. Yet, as we have learned, domestic violence does not always involve confrontation between a husband and wife. Child abuse is an integral component of domestic violence: in 70% of families where wife abuse occurs there is also physical abuse of the children. Statistics claim that at least 30% of women in Egypt are the victims of domestic violence (wife beating, physical and emotional battering, etc.) Most probably the percentage is much higher, due to the fact that many women fear or are too ashamed to speak out and seek help, or divorce the abuser.

Inhumane domestic violence (including incest) is prevalent in Egypt, but nothing concrete yet has been done on how to help the abused victims. We don’t have any “safe houses” in Egypt to protect them, but we should have a means of communicating with these victims of violence. Most children are too scared to report such violence, or don’t know any better. Some even think that the way they live is in fact the normal way of life. Television and the Ministry of Social Affairs should give more awareness to the public, and should find realistic means to help and protect the victims of domestic abuse, in particular, helpless abused children.

Amazingly enough there is denial and covering the facts going on.

www.washingtonpost.com...

This post mentions that some muslims abuse or stand behind their religion, which is the same as standing up for ancient primitive past as this woman speaks up and shares!


Arab Woman Speaks Out Against Islam - Wafa Sultan

Very much agree with what she said.

You can search and bring up facts, images that are horrifically graphic, and they're not happening here in the open as there.

www.mwlusa.org...&harrassment/violence.html
This from the Women's Muslim League.

I think the reason people aren't posting the links is that they are so horrifically graphic and not only hard to look at but not sure if they're against the rules of the website.

But those in denial cannot hide from this due to inability to post the graphics.

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by 23432

 

The video you posted is 40+ min's long, that maybe how people(Myself included) have failed to watch it in its entirety. Can you please summarize or atleast give us the time stamp that proves how this is it a non issue?

Im all up for being proven wrong if that's the case.

Here is some food for thought if you have a spare 2 mins. And this is happening in the UK!

www.bbc.co.uk... (2mins)

www.youtube.com... (30mins)

edit on 21-6-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

It's the story of smallest muslim minority in Israel .

Dr Ruth is the presenter and the video explains why women beating is a non issue in this particular muslim group in Israel .

Many people confuses Arab nationalism with Islam and this video put it out so the religion of Islam can be seen without Arab cultural overtones pretending to be Islam .

In this muslim society , the women are in charge of men .

If you watch the video , you would understand why the wife beating is a non issue for this particular group of women.

Violence against women is an absolute NO amongs these muslims .


If after watching this video, if you have not learned something then I would eat my hat and put up a picture of it here on ATS .