Is Islam shallow for using sex in heaven as it’s main draw for Muslim men?

The alternative question is:

Is it wrong to celebrate sex - is it not natural ?

That's so cool!

But, pics or it doesn't happen.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by nagabonar


This is a forum that is set up to cover religious aspects of our societies. ALL religions are addressed here.
There was a healthy spate of "anti-" (actually CRITICAL OF is more accurate) Christianity threads just a few months ago, and then the Boston Marathon happened, and the London butcher went nuts.

In America at least, tensions that WERE starting to ease a little bit got jacked back up to "WTH are you doing!???" status, especially in light of the fact that those fellas who caused death were REFUGEES being housed, fed, protected, and given equal rights in the countries that took them in.

It's one thing to have to read about all the bloodshed in the Middle East - but when the Muslims who have been accepted into Western countries, and there given equal standing for freedoms, turn and bite the hand that feeds them like vicious dogs, it makes it harder to be confident that Muslims settling in Western countries are thusly removed from the "terrorist" potential. Obviously, they are not.

And so, now the innocent citizens of those countries whose governments have opened their doors to political refugees have to be on guard.

We're only trying to figure out the chaos. And stay safe. And free. And welcoming to all comers who arrive in good faith.

At this point, it has been established over the last month or two that even the Muslims don't know what to tell us about how to protect ourselves from zealous extremists. How is trying to find out some answers in the interest of survival "bashing" Islam?

I appreciate the Muslim members who have participated. They have shown us NUMEROUS sources for further reading. The fact is that it's exquisitely difficult to find any "method to the madness" and filter the information in any comforting way.

There were some members who denied the fact of the 72 virgins in Islam. There are multiple verses in the Quran which mention virgins and they are not all mistranslations or misinterpretations. That is what the Quran actually says.
- "Then We have made them virgins" - Qur'an 56:36
- "Even so (it will be). And We shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes." - Qur'an 44:54
- "And voluptuous women of equal age;" - Qur'an 78:33
There's many more.

Translators agree on these translations and for someone to say they have mistranslated anything means they claim they know more than the translators. Obviously you cannot make such a claim because you have zero expertise in the area as compared to what the translators know. These are knowledgeable experienced translators who have all agreed on their translations. There are a few translations which will try to whitewash and hide the true meanings (I can name a few if needed). So you have to look at each situation.

So Quran confirms multiple times that virgins will be awarded. The number is a minor issue. There are two Hadiths which specify the number as 72.
Understandingly, any excuse to defend these things usually comes from Muslims.

As for someone saying the Quran has laws to protect women, once again, these are claims made by Muslims and are not true.
For example Quran 4:34 asks a man to beat his wife for disobedience. In Sahih (authentic) hadith, Muhammad said women are deficient in intelligence. Quran promises half inheritance to women. They have half the testimonial power in a court (2 female witnesses = 1 male witness) and so on. Abuse of women and taking away their rights is present all over in Islamic literature.

72 virgins is not the only embarrassing fact relating to sexuality in Islamic heaven. For example:
- The Holy Prophet said: 'The believer will be given such and such strength in Paradise for sexual intercourse. It was questioned: O prophet of Allah! can he do that? He said: "He will be given the strength of one hundred persons. (Mishkat al-Masabih, Book 4, Ch. 42, No. 24)

Muhammad himself was reported to have the sexual strength of 30 men:
- Narrated Qatada: Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)..." - Sahih Bukhari 1:5:268

Sahih Bukhari is the most authentic hadith collections in Islam out of the six Sahih collections.Put all of this together and you start to see what Islam tells Muslims. It does promise sexual rewards to men. That is a small matter when you consider Muhammad the creator of Islam gave the order to behead 900 men of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe and then enslave their women and children.

All this was going on in that area 1400 years ago. Islam is not acceptable for any society by today's standards. To say the least, its a destructive force which violates human rights.

Please be careful, do your research and don't give it to people who defend Islam.

These are things which of course Muslims will not want you to see, or will defend/deny it to the maximum while feeling happy internally that such rewards exist in heaven for them. To answer the original question, of course Islam is shallow.

The fact is that most people follow the religion of their birth without thinking but Muslims are still responsible for evaluating Islam and deciding if its true or not even if that happens very rarely, not just for Islam but for all religions. They are responsible for the state they are in and the negative influence on their world that they are.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I have no idea about the site .... but the quotes from Muhammad are correct.

What a joker, If you have no idea about the site you get the quotes from how could you possibly say they are correct?

His 'teachings' are obviously full of hate and power against women.

Only hate that is fairly obvious for the non bigoted members is a majority of posts in this thread where The whole thread is based on falsehoods.

Some fanatics might preach such a ridiculous interpretation to brainwash other Muslims for their own agendas, this does not mean Islam has such teachings.

reply to post by roughycannon

Freedom of speech my friend, everyones is entitled to an opinion if you don't like then don't read.

They sure are, but when it becomes borderline hate speech then an opposing voice must speak up.

Why is not OK for people to question religion but it s perfectly fine for people to stop me in the street and tell me I'm I am a lost soul and force religious leaflets in my face?

In my opinion one must question, however, did the OP have any links to verify the premise of his thread to be true?

It seems that the thread was a sneaky way at creating a bash Islam thread.

As its been shown by others that is not the case when using the Qur'an as the one and only authority in Islam.

reply to post by WeRpeons

Those are facts of the Muslim religion, not something the media just made up.

No, they are facts of Older Arab customs that have been incorporated in Islam.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
If you have no idea about the site you get the quotes from how could you possibly say they are correct?

You cherry picked what I wrote. The quotes from Muhammad and the Qu'ran are correct. As for the other personal comments on that site .... I have no idea if they are correct or not.

Only hate that is fairly obvious for the non bigoted members is a majority of posts in this thread where The whole thread is based on falsehoods.

*sigh* truth isn't hate.
It's not 'hate' to post exactly what Muhammad and the Qu'ran and Islamic teaching is.
It's not 'falsehood' to post exactly what Muhammad and the Qu'ran and Islamic teaching is.
But the truth that it's full of misogyny does seem to embarrass the apologists.

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
reply to post by MrInquisitive

 

I think the problem is, many pillar heads of Muslim countries maintain there power by the sword and often quite unjustly. You cannot honestly tell me that Sharia Law is just?

Hey, I am in no way defending Islam or any other religion for that matter. My point is that Christians have a lot of nerve criticizing other religions.

And are you claiming that leaders of Christian countries or predominantly Christian countries don't maintain power with force and violence? Seriously? What happened to the Branch Davidians because they didn't bow to the ATF? They were burned alive in their home, including two dozen children.

Can you honestly tell me US law is just when we have a two- or three-tiered justice system? Like I said: worry about taking care of your own house first before criticizing others. The only reason to criticize others is to ignore the injustice and barbarity in one's own culture.

reply to post by InhaleExhale

They sure are, but when it becomes borderline hate speech then an opposing voice must speak up.

I don't hear to many opposing voices or major protests in the Muslim community about terrorist attacks and suicide bombings being done in the name of Islam. When people use their religion (any religion) and interpret it in a way to kill or maim in the name of God, there is no way you can tell me it's a religion from God. Christians have also killed in the name of their God.

Anything that can be interpreted differently was meant to be that way. I definitely think if there is truly one creator, you wouldn't have 21 major religions not to mention cults that spring up now and than. Think about it, it is rather ridiculous that you would have 21 religions all claiming it's the correct path to your salvation. It simply has been created by man, because no loving God would have his words interpreted to act out violence against his own creation. Every religion has demeaned and devalued women. Women are the most nurturing and loving souls walking this earth, and I'm a man making this statement.

I would think following just the 10 commandments leaves less to interpretation than the bible or the Quran. I shall not kill. Seems simple enough, and leaves no possible interpretations.

This post reminds me of a joke.

After his death, Osama bin Laden was allowed a short visit Heaven.

There he was greeted by George Washington, who proceeded to slap him across the face and yell at him, "How dare you try to destroy the nation I helped conceive!"

Patrick Henry approached and punched Osama in the nose and shouted, "You wanted to end our liberties but you failed."

James Madison entered, kicked Osama in the groin and said, "This is why I allowed our government to provide for the common defense!"

Thomas Jefferson came in and proceeded to beat Osama many times with a long cane and said, "It was evil men like you that provided me the inspiration to pen the Declaration of Independence!".

These beatings and thrashings continued as John Rudolph, James Monroe and 66 other early Americans came in and unleashed their anger on the Muslim terrorist leader.

As Osama lay bleeding and writhing in unbearable pain an Angel appeared.

Bin Laden wept in pain and said to the Angel, "This is not what you promised me."

The Angel replied, "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you in Heaven. What did you think I said?"

Originally posted by smyleegrl
And what does the Muslim afterlife promise for faithful women? Another life of servitude, subjugation, and the pleasantries of being a concubine for all eternity?

I'd rather there be nothing, or reincarnate as a slug, myself.

One of the verses says that the favored deceased Muslim male who gets 72 virgin wives will have the strength of 100 men for, among other things, coitus. Lucky virgin gals, them. Won't be virgins for long. Or do they revert to virginity after every ravishing bout of coitus by growing a fresh new hymen?

What I mainly wonder about are the hundreds and thousands who end up as servants of their really virile master. What have those beings done or failed to do to deserve that position on the ladder of the afterlife's social hierarchy? Are they robotic drones who serve their master with no awareness of their disfavored place on the ladder, much like the robotic virgin wives?

How does a Muslim male qualify for the afterlife status of having the strength and sexual endurance of 100 men, with 72 not virgin for very long wives, and hundreds or thousands doing penance as his servants?

Do Muslim men ever ask themselves these questions?

I don't mean to offend, but surely these are questions you ask yourselves in the privacy of your own mind which you dare not express for fear of being labeled a heretic and suffering a bad fate if anyone finds out how daring you are in your private thoughts.

How do spirit beings have sex, which requires friction by the rubbing together of material flesh?

In the New Testament Jesus says there is no marriage or male and female in heaven.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Umm looking at what Christ Jesus said is important, but note what He didn't say too. He didn't mention sex at all. He simply instructed the Sadducees that there was no marriage between the children of God and compared them with the angels of God. So will the children of God, like mankind and the animals, be either of male or female gender or neither? Idk, but some say that Zechariah 5:9-11 indicates both male and female angels. So if there are male and female angels and if there will be male and female children of God too some infer that, like the animals on our level of existence, there will be sex without any requirement for marriage as well. But, whether this means the sex will simply be for pleasure or for procreation to colonize the entire universe is unknown and speculatory on our part. Basically I'm open to the possibilities even though I'm inclined to think atm the angels are, and the children of God will be, genderless and thus sex will not be necessary since we will live eternally in a perpetual state of orgasmic bliss.

reply to post by WeRpeons

I don't hear to many opposing voices or major protests in the Muslim community about terrorist attacks and suicide bombings being done in the name of Islam. When people use their religion (any religion) and interpret it in a way to kill or maim in the name of God, there is no way you can tell me it's a religion from God. Christians have also killed in the name of their God.

What I can tell you is people that do such are not real Christians, not real Muslims.


I could say suicide bombings are not done in the name of Islam but are portrayed as such, this is why Muslims will not condemn every attack you hear about. No where in Islam is there any condoning of killing innocents.
Those that do are not following or being true to their beliefs, its as simple as that, today's media and internet and broad hatred of any culture different does nothing to help see this simple truth and the deception of whats really going on is easily fed to hungry public.

I follow none of these systems of belief, however, if was to strap bombs to myself and walk to the nearest shopping center after uploading a video of me praising Allah on YouTube and detonate, what would be known about the incident or how would it be portrayed?

Come on now, Lets not put one religion one pedestal by bringing the worse of an another religion.

All have bad taste in my mouth, well the abrahamic ones anyway....

Its like a rapist calling out a pedophile.

reply to post by FlyersFan

You cherry picked what I wrote. The quotes from Muhammad and the Qu'ran are correct. As for the other personal comments on that site .... I have no idea if they are correct or not.

No, I quoted your whole first sentence which I replied to accordingly.

There were no quotes from Muhammad or the Qur'an in that post of yours just a quoted part or whats in the site you linked to Now talk about cherry picking and taking things out of context.

When ever quotes like this from one of the holy books are proposed to paint a negative picture one has to understand especially if they follow one of the Abrahamic religions that the whole picture/message supersedes one little part someone can find something wrong with.

*sigh* truth isn't hate. It's not 'hate' to post exactly what Muhammad and the Qu'ran and Islamic teaching is. It's not 'falsehood' to post exactly what Muhammad and the Qu'ran and Islamic teaching is.

In your case it is.

You haven't posted what Islamic teaching is. You have cherry picked parts you can use for your own means.

You have shown that you hate what western society was like on a wide scale just 100 years ago and still is today on a smaller scale even in the good ol US of A.

Originally posted by luciddream
Come on now, Lets not put one religion one pedestal by bringing the worse of an another religion.

All have bad taste in my mouth, well the abrahamic ones anyway....

Its like a rapist calling out a pedophile.

Very well said.

Mr Inquisitive also gives a very mature opinion.

Hypocrisy is strife in all religions though, not in the religions themselves even thought some interpretations of the writings can be found to contradict each other but by the followers of religion.

reply to post by Greatest I am


You make an excellent point. It seems the ultimate reward is really kind of satanic. Don't forget the 9/11 bombers were partying in strip clubs. Overall it denotes a complete lack of respect for women. Its sad because were it not for women these pigs wouldn't be alive to bash women and subjugate them while they enjoy a sense of fake manhood.

reply to post by shells4u

I knew that the 72 virgin thing was a bunch of lies

And yet muslims believe it. It is as much a lie as living once then dying and going either to heaven or hell at the end of that one life.

Yet where does it say in the bible that one only lives one time?