Master Mason (PHA)

reply to post by Kody27

I can't speak for your Chapter, but the one in my area has a lot of fun.

...to show that members deep within the fraternal order itself really have no clue what it's all about.

And you do?

The ones who are not dependent on such groups, or society, or fraternities, the ones who are NOT dependent upon the acceptance of support of others, they are the true magickians.

Joining a group is not about dependency. That's just stupid.

They have outside perspective, they are not consumed by the hierarchy of degrees and labels associated with them.

Outside perspective also gives you misconceptions.

Originally posted by Kody27
It's common knowledge that Freemasonry originated from Egyptology...

Then please show us evidence of this. Please show us in what ritual is Egyptian.

...and the Mason's practices and rituals are significantly connected to the Fraternal Order of the Golden Dawn.

They may have imitated some of our rituals, but they are not considered a part of the Masonic family.

Originally posted by Level_Head
I have been reading posts here at ATS for a few years now and I very rarely post anything. As a Master Mason (been traveling since 2008) I have seen many outrageous and just laughable posts regarding Freemasonry and what it is we do. I created this post to answer any questions abut Freemasonry PHA or otherwise. Feel free to ask anything and I will be glad to answer. If i do not know the answer I will surely direct you to where you may be able to find it or connect you with someone who may be able to answer your inquiry. All I ask is that you remain respectful. No question is forbidden or too stupid to ask.

What do Masons think of Aleister Crowley?

Originally posted by terma

Originally posted by Level_Head
I have been reading posts here at ATS for a few years now and I very rarely post anything. As a Master Mason (been traveling since 2008) I have seen many outrageous and just laughable posts regarding Freemasonry and what it is we do. I created this post to answer any questions abut Freemasonry PHA or otherwise. Feel free to ask anything and I will be glad to answer. If i do not know the answer I will surely direct you to where you may be able to find it or connect you with someone who may be able to answer your inquiry. All I ask is that you remain respectful. No question is forbidden or too stupid to ask.

What do Masons think of Aleister Crowley?

You would have to ask each Freemason individually. I personally think he was crazy

reply to post by terma

He was an irregular, clandestine Freemason who really amounted to nothing in his own Lodge. His only footprint is with the OTO. Level_Head has a good point.

Okay thanks, I thought maybe there was a commonly held opinion about him.

Originally posted by terma

What do Masons think of Aleister Crowley?

I don't think anything of Crowley personally, other than eccentric, and really only see his name here on ATS from time to time.

They may have imitated some of our rituals, but they are not considered a part of the Masonic family.

Yeah because they're more efficient than the "masonic family". Freemasons started the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Do you know what Hermetic means? It means Hermes, aka Thoth, the Egyptian god of wisdom. Hermes Trismesgestus who supposedly wrote the Emerald Tablets and the Kybalion.

Tell me again that Freemasonry doesn't originate from Egyptology?

That's what I thought.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by terma

 

He was an irregular, clandestine Freemason who really amounted to nothing in his own Lodge. His only footprint is with the OTO. Level_Head has a good point.

And what have you amounted to exactly?

Crowley was nothing short of a genius, and hit the proverbial nail on the head with this quote about Freemasonry;
"Crowley also had a decline of interest in Freemasonry after being initiated into the 'non-regular' Masonic fraternities, stating that it was 'Either vain pretense, tomfoolery, an excuse for drunken rowdiness, or a sinister association for political intrigues.' "

He amounted to "nothing" within Freemasonry because there is nothing to amount to within the Freemasons. Why do you think he left for the Golden Dawn, and then became tiresome of that almost as much as Freemasonry, requiring him to revise and refine his own fraternal order? The O.T.O and the A:A (Argentum Astram, once again, the "Silver Star" a direct reference to the Sirius star system, look up "The Sirius Mystery" by Robert Temple)

Crowley was a world renown chess player, having beaten the senior president of the chess club at Cambridge when he was only a freshman, "A third hobby of his was the game of chess, and he joined the university's chess club, where, he later stated, he beat the president in his first year and practised two hours a day towards becoming a champion, but he eventually gave this idea up." He later attended a world champion chess tournament and looked around to see nothing but old men and decided that this was not his fate.

He then became a world renown mountain climber, being the first recorded westerner to attempt to climb Mt. Everest, and also the first attempt at climbing the second tallest mountain in the world, K2.

He then turned his attention towards occult philosophy, science, poetry, and spirituality. Having written several books on each subject, to which any bibliophile will tell you, his first editions are among the most collectible, rare, and expensive books on the entire planet.

For you to say that his only footprint was withing to OTO does not even make sense, since he created the OTO, and the AA and also climbed to the top ranks of the Golden Dawn, which means much more than being a 33 degree Mason, as far as spirituality is concerned. Some even considered him to be the messiah of a new age, the Aeon of Horus, having written the Book of the Law through with the aid of the praeter-human intelligence Aiwass dictating through the medium of his lover at the time in Cairo.

Originally posted by Kody27
It's common knowledge that Freemasonry originated from Egyptology...

Then please show us evidence of this. Please show us in what ritual is Egyptian.

This wasn't very difficult to provide evidence for, seeing as all I had to do was look in the Wikipedia of Freemasonry.

"A poem known as the "Regius Manuscript" has been dated to approximately 1390 and is the oldest known Masonic text. The poem begins with a history of the "Craft" of Masonry,..."

"The Halliwell Manuscript, also known as the Regius Poem, is the earliest of the Old Charges. It consists of 64 vellum pages of Middle English written in rhyming couplets. In this, it differs from the prose of all the later charges. The poem begins by describing how Euclid "counterfeited geometry" and called it masonry, for the employment of the children of the nobility in Ancient Egypt."

Also, to reference Freemasonry, it links you to Stonemasonry and says this; "The Ancients heavily relied on the stonemason to build the most impressive and long lasting monuments to their civilizations. The Egyptians built their pyramids, the civilizations of Central America had their step pyramids, the Persians their palaces, the Greeks their temples, and the Romans their public works and wonders (See Roman Architecture). Among the famous ancient stonemasons is Sophroniscus, the father of Socrates, who was a stone-cutter."

Notice how the Egyptians are the first to be mentioned as Stonemasons? Hmmmmmm.....Gee, is that enough evidence for you to believe that Freemasonry originated from Egypt?

Also, it's common knowledge that Euclid did not "invent" or "discover" the things he took credit for within respects of geometry. In my college world history course, it was taught that Euclid learned everything from Egyptian astronomy, including algebra, geometry, things like the "pythagorean" theorem which was attribute to Pythagoras obviously but was proven to be put to use well before in Egyptian heiroglyphs, describing the movement of the stars.

Originally posted by Kody27
Notice how the Egyptians are the first to be mentioned as Stonemasons? Hmmmmmm.....Gee, is that enough evidence for you to believe that Freemasonry originated from Egypt?

Operative and Speculative.

Those are some fine sack of words right there. I wonder what they mean in regards to Freemasonry?

Let's explore just a bit, shall we?
It seems the stonemasons of old used to build structures. They used stones. They formed a unified group. They had meetings.


Then..............

(in the future)

Some men decided that they would like to form a fraternal organization and base it on the symbolism of the ancient stone masons. And so is born modern freemasonry.

Could freemasonry be tied to the Knights Templar? Perhaps, but nobody proved it yet.

Do the Freemasons of today have anything in the ritual that suggests that it was born in Egypt? no.

While it's possible that modern freemasonry is an offshoot of an ancient society from Egypt, those who write history, forgot to write that part down.

So in the fraternal group known as Freemasons, the members of the organization are taught lots of cool things. Some of it is history, some allegory, and some philosophy. You as a non mason have not been taught anything from masonry as you must be a member to have that option.

Again, thanks very much for your

OPINION

It's duly noted and taken as such. Should you decide to bring factual proof that we are all wrong, we welcome that as we would any learning experience.

Please understand the difference between opinion and FACT.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Kody27
Notice how the Egyptians are the first to be mentioned as Stonemasons? Hmmmmmm.....Gee, is that enough evidence for you to believe that Freemasonry originated from Egypt?

Operative and Speculative.

Those are some fine sack of words right there. I wonder what they mean in regards to Freemasonry?

Let's explore just a bit, shall we?
It seems the stonemasons of old used to build structures. They used stones. They formed a unified group. They had meetings.


Then..............

(in the future)

Some men decided that they would like to form a fraternal organization and base it on the symbolism of the ancient stone masons. And so is born modern freemasonry.

Could freemasonry be tied to the Knights Templar? Perhaps, but nobody proved it yet.

Do the Freemasons of today have anything in the ritual that suggests that it was born in Egypt? no.

While it's possible that modern freemasonry is an offshoot of an ancient society from Egypt, those who write history, forgot to write that part down.

So in the fraternal group known as Freemasons, the members of the organization are taught lots of cool things. Some of it is history, some allegory, and some philosophy. You as a non mason have not been taught anything from masonry as you must be a member to have that option.

Again, thanks very much for your

OPINION

It's duly noted and taken as such. Should you decide to bring factual proof that we are all wrong, we welcome that as we would any learning experience.

Please understand the difference between opinion and FACT.

"Thomas Paine traced Freemasonry to Ancient Egypt, as did Cagliostro, who went so far as to supply the ritual.

More recently, several authors have linked the Templars to the timeline of Freemasonry through the imagery of the carvings in Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland, where the Templars are rumoured to have sought refuge after the dissolution of the order. In The Hiram Key, Robert Lomas and Christopher Knight describe a timeline starting in ancient Egypt, and taking in Jesus, the Templars, and Rosslyn before arriving at modern Freemasonry."

"Free Mason was traced back to the ancient Khametic empire (Egypt). It comes from a combination of two Khametic words Phre (the sun) and Mas (a child) meaning children of the sun and/or sons of light (John Jackson, 1972). These two words combine to make the word Freemason. The term originated in Egypt and proves that the first Freemasons were ancient Africans (called black people in modern racial terms). It also shows that the order originated in Africa. Frank C. Higgins also defines Freemason the same as above, and he has it as Phre-Messen (from Egypt)..."

"

"Egypt has always been considered as the birthplace of the mysteries. It was there that the ceremonies of initiation were first established. It was there that truth was first veiled in allegory, and the dogmas of religion were first imparted under symbolic forms." (Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, heading "Egyptian Mysteries"):

We have found that Masonic symbols and legends derive from peoples anterior to the Solomonic Temple (beginning of chapter). Is Egypt then a major source of such? Yes.

"To Egypt, therefore, Masons have always looked with peculiar interest as the cradle of that mysterious science of symbolism whose peculiar modes of teaching they alone, of all modern institutions, have preserved to the present day." (Encyclopedia of Freemasonry—"Egyptian Mysteries")

We have found also that the Masonic "religion" comes from the ancient priesthood (beginning of chapter). One might think this refers to the Levitical Priesthood of the Bible, however, the priesthood of Egypt is their reference:

"The priesthood of Egypt constituted a sacred caste, in whom the sacredotal functions were hereditary." (Encyclopedia of Freemasonry—"Egyptian Mysteries")

The Connection:



Although varied countries had many gods, only certain gods (or exalted positions) were represented by the sun and Moon. Found in Albert Pike’s Morals & Dogma pg. 406:

"We know that the Egyptians worshipped the Sun, under the name of Osiris."

Mr. Pike connects Baal Worship and Osiris as identical:

"The Goths had three festivals; the most magnificent do so of which commenced at the winter solstice, and was celebrated in honor of Thor, the Prince of the Power of the Air".

"Thor was the Sun, the Egyptian Osiris and Kneph, the Phoenician Bel or Baal. The initiations were had in huge intricate caverns, terminating, as all the Mithriac caverns did, in a spacious vault, where the candidate was brought to light." (note: "brought to light") (emphasis added) (Morals & Dogma, page 368). .

The Legend of Osiris, the Egyptian god, is significant to Masonry due to the ritual of the "Third Degree" as well as other teachings which are deep-rooted in Egyptian legend."

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Kody27

Efficient? That's debatable.

Do you know what Hermetic means? It means Hermes, aka Thoth, the Egyptian god of wisdom. Hermes Trismesgestus who supposedly wrote the Emerald Tablets and the Kybalion.

Yes, I'm very familiar with all of this.

Tell me again that Freemasonry doesn't originate from Egyptology?

Freemasonry doesn't originate from Egyptology.

That's what I thought.

Spare us your superiority complex.

reply to post by Kody27

I amounted to quite a bit in my 7-years within the Fraternity. I have presided over several constituent bodies, member of a myriad of bodies (many invitational), and I have come to be an education officer in several bodies. I'm currently working on a book on the York Rite.

Crowley was nothing short of a genius...

I'm not saying he wasn't smart on some levels, but he's not some overall expert on Freemasonry.

"Crowley also had a decline of interest in Freemasonry after being initiated into the 'non-regular' Masonic fraternities, stating that it was 'Either vain pretense, tomfoolery, an excuse for drunken rowdiness, or a sinister association for political intrigues.' "

I bet it was after he was rejected from entering the regular Lodges in England. Sounds like bitterness to me.

He amounted to "nothing" within Freemasonry because there is nothing to amount to within the Freemasons.

Incorrect.

For you to say that his only footprint was withing to OTO does not even make sense, since he created the OTO...

Incorrect. Crowley reformed the OTO, but the OTO was started by a German named Karl Kellner and Theodor Ruess. Crowley didn't come into the OTO until several years after it was founded.

...which means much more than being a 33 degree Mason, as far as spirituality is concerned.

This is something you cannot say as you don't know what it means to receive that honor.

reply to post by Kody27

I'm very familiar with the Regius Poem or Halliwell Manuscript.

You must realize the difference between operative and speculative Freemasonry. The actual document talks about how Geometry was found in Egypt. The actual document does not say that he referred to Geometry as Masonry. This document is not considered the signle document that talks of our history, most see it as one theory. I'm asking you for actual evidence about modern Freemasonry, from our ritualistic work.

reply to post by Kody27

Who cares what Thomas Paine wrote on Freemasonry. It was only a theory.

Robert Coooper wrote an excellent book called the Rosslyn Hoax about the subject of Templar-Freemasonry connection in association with the Rosslyn Chapel. You're attempting to pass off theories as fact when they are only theories, and many of them debunked.

Lomas and Knight take a great deal of liberty with facts in their books. I would categorize their books under speculative fiction. Lomas and Knight's books were some of the first one I read before even becoming a Freemason.

What I'm trying to say is there is no single theory on the origins of Freemasonry and the real history of Freemasonry has been lost to the fog of time. All we have for now are speculations, theories, and opinions. There is no smoking gun as to a single source of modern Freemasonry.

Some people are too simple minded and have tunnel vision.

reply to post by Kody27

The origin of the word Mason is etymologically French. This use of the word "Free Mason" didn't come about until the 14th century.

reply to post by Kody27

You've said nothing of fact, only speculation and theory.

reply to post by KSigMason


So, now you're not saying that Masonry didn't come from Egypt? You're just saying that you're agnostic about the whole situation? That it can't be traced, it can't be proven where the true origins of Freemasonry come from? Or are you saying that Freemasonry doesn't come from Egypt because there is nothing (as far as you can "see") within the Masonic rituals themselves that have to do with Egypt? (Even though everything about all masonic rituals stems from Egyptology)

Or are you both agnostic about the true origins, and also a non-believer of the Egyptian origins based on lack of "proof" even though every arrow points in that direction?
Please explain.

Originally posted by Kody27
Or are you saying that Freemasonry doesn't come from Egypt because there is nothing (as far as you can "see") within the Masonic rituals themselves that have to do with Egypt? (Even though everything about all masonic rituals stems from Egyptology)

If you want anyone to take you seriously you need to lay out a better arguement, "In X part of the ritual we see Y taking place or represented which clearly has a correllary to Egypt because of Z".


Oh, while you are at it you need to start linking your sources. It makes it much easier to check what you are using and also gives credit to anyone you are citing.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Kody27
Or are you saying that Freemasonry doesn't come from Egypt because there is nothing (as far as you can "see") within the Masonic rituals themselves that have to do with Egypt? (Even though everything about all masonic rituals stems from Egyptology)

If you want anyone to take you seriously you need to lay out a better arguement, "In X part of the ritual we see Y taking place or represented which clearly has a correllary to Egypt because of Z".


Oh, while you are at it you need to start linking your sources. It makes it much easier to check what you are using and also gives credit to anyone you are citing.

Yeah I could I just really don't feel the need to go through all that work to convince someone who is already not worthy of knowing the truth. The lips of wisdom are closed except to the ears of understanding. Providing links to online sources isn't going to speak any more or less to the wise, who see and know that what I'm saying is true. Masonic rituals are based on Egyptology, plain and simply. There need be no further explanation. ALL occult knowledge starts in Egypt, traced back to Hermes Trismesgestus as the father of occult knowledge. ALL fraternal orders and cults stem from this aspect of world history, directly or indirectly, Egypt is the source. It cannot be refuted, not even an agnostic stance can exist logically on the subject at hand. It is plain for all to see. Look at the Masonic lodge in Australia. It's basically an ancient Egyptian building, covered in heiroglyphs and even has the wings of Nuit inscribed! I wonder why Masons would do that, could it be because their whole entire history and conception came directly from Egyptology? Yes. Now move on.

Originally posted by Kody27
Yeah I could I just really don't feel the need to go through all that work...

Yeah, you do need to go through that work. Stop being lazy.

Why is it important to correlate Egypt with Scottish rite Freemasonry.
I think the primitive Mexicans built Egypt and the pyramids.
don't get all cranky on me... I'm just saying.

I've seen stuff man... stuff.