Master Mason (PHA)

reply to post by UNIT76

WHOA THERE COWBOY! How dare you call us the same! I'm way more handsome than Augustus! And I live nowhere near NJ.

..yes, you're right

Tell me the truth, this hurt to say.

..with respect, earlier when we are talking about dinner as opposed to labor, it seems the significance was entirely overlooked.. i would make an inference here to the 'taking in of nutrients', sustenance, how a man is said to be 'what he eats'

During this "taking in of nutrients" we allow non-members to join us all the time. We encourage it. If I'm around I'll take them on a tour of the building, time permitting.

Regardless of your twisting words, we do not condemn people coming into our buildings...lawfully...obviously. I currently sit as Tyler for my Lodge and if people come in I'll gladly sit outside the meeting room and talk with them all day long. The only place they [non-members] are not allowed is the room where a tyled meeting is being held.

reply to post by KSigMason

credit has to be given where it's due and i gain nothing by being in error.

i know a few masons and rosicrucians. you are not all 'bad' people.
but it does my head in... the "stuff" some of you know... but never talk openly about..

like now.. no mention of the "spinning wheels"

evidently we differ on the terms friendly and open, they almost took my head off for peeking beyond a door they'd left open

The only place they [non-members] are not allowed is the room where a tyled meeting is being held.

yah this is what we're talking about > sitting down to a meal > or "labor" as one of you termed it?

but even if i was at home, in the shower or taking, eating dinner, taking a dump, or some other "labor" ..i would still answer the door.. regardless.. we are not talking about "business hours" here, or the small hours of the morning when it is right to tell someone "go away"

i hope this makes sense to you? ..because if anyone came to my door, and knew me, and knew i was in there with my family conferring and refusing to open the door.. the next time they saw me, they'd simply put it to me "wtf was that all about? not answering the door, rah rah rah"

..what am i going to say to them? .."you weren't welcome sorry, family only"

and they say to me, "what bro? lol, couldn't even come to the door to tell me to # off?"

and they would be right for saying that

because i would've been the one who ALLOWED that barrier to exist between us...

KSig & Unit76 - If I may make a point of clarification...

I think that in your conversation, you're going around in circles because of metaphors being confused with actuality.

When Unit76 speaks of Masons not inviting people in for "the meal", I believe he's using it as a metaphor, referring to us not allowing outsiders (cowans and eavesdroppers) into Lodge meetings (visiting while we are "at labour").

On the other hand, KSig is actually talking about allowing non Masons to attend a meal, or even refreshment time, which occurs downstairs after the lodge is closed.

In short, we don't allow outsiders into tyled meetings. They're private, and for members only, just like "in camera" meetings at any organization. OTOH, we always allow outsiders to visit when there is no tyled meeting going on, and when we are actually having a meal or light repast.

reply to post by IslandMason


for those familiar with "a peculiar system of allegory" i would've thought you's'd be all over a simple metaphor

starred island for coming to the party.. thanks..



but i tip my hat to you all.. you guys are slick.. still no response to the "spinning wheels"? (let's just come out and call them chakra's now) ..still no response to the "cartoon"..? the silence says it all
but kudo's for finally putting the little wooden puppet (who desperately wants to be a real boy) in his place a few pages back

reply to post by UNIT76


In masonry, I have been able to find references to everything I have said or done in lodge on Google. Everything. Think about that for a second. Now take a minute to go to the google and type your spinning wheels in. See what you can learn.

I as a mason, have not hear of a reference to spinning wheels in any masonic teachings. Now to offer a disclaimer as I have had to before, if I missed something, then I sincerely apologize, but it must not have been significant if I and everyone else missed it.

If you ask me specific questions, I will offer specific answers. Skip all the word play and allegory. If you aren't a mason, you will most likely just confuse everyone else. Be direct please.

Originally posted by lucifer6
How did the glaciers get up that high jack? Was it because the sea level was also higher?

And? The continental shelf still has very similar contours off the east coast of North America and ocean currents would have still had to conform to this geographic outline.

America used to be buried under water and ice. The whole world, save very few mountain ranges.

The last ice age saw glaciation as far south as New York. The Gulf stream, as I explained earlier, has its origins off the coast of Africa before flowing into and out of the Gulf of Mexico which were completely ice-free so your point is irrelevant.

I do not know much but I do know that the world was different enough to make a change in the geothermol jetstream? A big one...

A larger effect would be the melting of glaciers and the release of fresh water into the North Atlantic reducing salinity levels. This point is also irrelevant as the last ice age was 12,000 years ago and would have had no influenece on the point the other poster was attempting to make in regards the Mayans and the building Egyptian pyramids.

Again, if you have evidence to the contrary please feel free to post it.

Originally posted by UNIT76
but i tip my hat to you all.. you guys are slick.. still no response to the "spinning wheels"? (let's just come out and call them chakra's now)...

The problem is you are trying to be way too cute and are using metaphors that have meaning only to yourself.

It should be fairly obvious to anyone who has even a passing understanding of Masonry that chakras (which are an Eastern philosophical aspect) are not refered to in Masonry.

you must've known from the get-go what i was getting at with the 'spinning wheels'
why the terms were used in reference to eating and labor
like the cartoon, why not just address these things as they arise?

even the simple metaphor was obfuscated here
everything is always concealed and never revealed

I'm wondering if an uninitiated (Cowan) person can be hinted and/or guided in unto a path which is designed for a Freemason... in hopes that he may learn or experience the craft?

If this is possible... will he in turn learn to identify a Mason and contribute his thanks giving.

I have many thanks for Freemasons.
I grossly rant and demean their rites but try to defend the Freemason as an individual.oh... and the Mexicans built the Egyptian pyramids. Why? Dunno. I think they wanted to find the Freemasons and spellbinding them before they build the united states.

Originally posted by UNIT76
you must've known from the get-go what i was getting at with the 'spinning wheels'
why the terms were used in reference to eating and labor
like the cartoon, why not just address these things as they arise?

I have never heard that metaphor used for anything except in reference to not getting a job completed quickly, i.e. 'He was just spinning his wheels'. Its use as a metaphor for chakras must be your own invention and really has nothing to do with Masonic ritual or teaching so the relevance is nonexistant.

As for the cartoon, you are the one who failed to comment on it when posting. Why should anyone else give a crap if you do not?

even the simple metaphor was obfuscated here
everything is always concealed and never revealed

Simple to you as you knew what you meant, but like I said earlier, you seem to enjoy trying to be too cute and your pendantic word games really do not add to the conversation.

reply to post by UNIT76

I'm not talking about spinning wheels because it's irrelevant in regards to the discussion.

evidently we differ on the terms friendly and open, they almost took my head off for peeking beyond a door they'd left open

I can't speak to the situation, but I've never seen a Lodge turn away a stranger.

yah this is what we're talking about > sitting down to a meal > or "labor" as one of you termed it?

Our meetings are not meals, regardless of how you see it. Our meetings are private and only members are allowed in. If you tried to break into this, I can see why they wouldn't let you in as you are not entitled to sit in a tyled meeting.

The Lodge should have had a tyler without the doors who could have spoken to you or "answered the door".

...we are not talking about "business hours" here, or the small hours of the morning when it is right to tell someone "go away"

Regardless of the hours, a Lodge has the right to turn away whoever they wish, at any hour of the day.

i hope this makes sense to you? ..because if anyone came to my door, and knew me, and knew i was in there with my family conferring and refusing to open the door.. the next time they saw me, they'd simply put it to me "wtf was that all about? not answering the door, rah rah rah"

Apples and oranges. You're private residency is different from our organization's meeting place as well as the rules of propriety are different.

reply to post by UNIT76

Spinning wheels are irrelevant to the discussion nor do they have anything to do with Freemasonry. This applies to the cartoon as well. Pythagoras is spoken of in Freemasonry and math is one of the seven liberal arts and sciences, but math and Pythagoras are not exclusive to Freemasonry.

Originally posted by UNIT76
everything is always concealed and never revealed

Only the secrets. Spinning wheels are not a secret of Freemasonry.

i sought advice on this whole matter here.
and was made to understand if one was "cute" the other was "ugly"?
..admonished with something along the lines of 'a jokers position' / (juxtaposition)
i think i understand all this, will bother you no further and travel along as far as the good lord sees fit.

Originally posted by Level_Head

Originally posted by Kody27
reply to post by network dude

 

I would be glad to. Long story short, Masonry is the art of brick laying. The builders of the pyramids were obviously masters of brick laying, seeing as they, built the pyramids! They were the first true Masons. Everything about Freemasonry (and all Judaeo-Christian religions for that matter) stems from Egyptology.

It was said that those standing outside of King Solomon's temple while it was being built, could not hear the sound of a chizzle or a hammer....alluding to the fact that the temple itself was built with some other means than normal tools, as the Great Pyramids themselves were.

Those standing outside of King Solomon's Temple did not hear any noise because the stones were hewn and cut elsewhere, therefor no need for metal working tools inside the Temple. Egyptians were not the first true masons and Masonry didnt start in Egypt. There are pyramids outside of Egypt that are also older than the ones in Egypt. Also, there is no mention of Sirius anywhere in Freemasonry...allegorically or literally. Please do some more research and not YouTube research. If you want to know about Freemasonry it would behoove you to go to the source....Freemasons

I'm pretty sure Light From the Sanctuary of the Royal Arch is about as close of a source as you can get for Masonic knowledge. Also, do yourself a favor and do some research, start with Robert Temple's "The Sirius Mystery". It's a very scientific endeavor, not so much conspiracy theory ridden.

The concept of Masonry (bricklaying) did not start in Egypt, no, of course not. I never said that. What I did say was that the concept of the fraternal order of the Freemasons originated from Egyptology and Sumerian texts, rituals, practices, and mythology.

You believe Masonry has nothing to do with the esoteric practices of Magick or Egyptology, not because you are stupid (maybe you are, I don't know) but because you refuse to believe. Nevertheless, it's the reality of it and should you decided to delve further into the origins of Freemasonry, I hope you do so with an open mind and don't believe everything the elder Masons tell you as if it were divine objective truth. Try thinking for yourself, question their authority and read in between the lines. It's all right there if you choose to see it, yet the lips of wisdom are closed except to the ears of understanding.

reply to post by Kody27

What rituals of ours are Egyptian or Sumerian? Please show a comparison.

You believe Masonry has nothing to do with the esoteric practices of Magick or Egyptology, not because you are stupid (maybe you are, I don't know) but because you refuse to believe.

So please show us how they are connected. Show us something substantial.

reply to post by Kody27


Kody,
You seem to have some specific knowledge. It's great that you took an interest in this subject. The history and knowledge is limitless for one who wants to put forth the effort. But you need to step back and look at what you are doing.

You, a non member of the craft, is trying to tell members of the craft, all about their craft. Do you see how idiotic that really is? Until you are a full member of craft masonry, you don't know what we know or how we know it. I am not saying that to be condescending or holier than thou, just that we are taught specific things for a specific reason. And all the hype about what you think we know may not be the case.

If you should chose to become a mason one day, you will learn exactly what we learned, the exact way we learned it. You will find the things eluded to in degrees of the Scottish Rite and other bodies fascinating, yet void of specifics. For a very good reason. One you might find should you chose to look in that direction.

Do us a favor, don't tell us what we do and don't know, and we wont tell you all about the things you hide in your underwear drawer and between your mattresses. fair enough?

reply to post by Kody27


Why stop at Egypt ? If your using comparisons then you could compare freemasonry to Sumarian myth. When I was made a brother I did not fully understand the value and regard that Freemasons show to women (very rarely spoken of on these boards) I would be hard pressed to find another group of men who embrace the divine feminine (that's my personal view) which is quite Sumarian.

My point being that any idea can be traced further back in time then its conception due to the fact we are dealing with ideas that are for want of a better word "eternal"

Undo will get this :-) Freemasons from my pov could be said to be following the example of Enki, but because we are only human we can only help the communities around us.

Off topic: Undo a quick question for you to ponder - could Enki actually have been female? It may explain why Enlil gained control even though Enki was firstborn.

I'm tired so the above may seem like rambling :-)

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Kody27

 

Kody,
You seem to have some specific knowledge. It's great that you took an interest in this subject. The history and knowledge is limitless for one who wants to put forth the effort. But you need to step back and look at what you are doing.

You, a non member of the craft, is trying to tell members of the craft, all about their craft. Do you see how idiotic that really is? Until you are a full member of craft masonry, you don't know what we know or how we know it. I am not saying that to be condescending or holier than thou, just that we are taught specific things for a specific reason. And all the hype about what you think we know may not be the case.

If you should chose to become a mason one day, you will learn exactly what we learned, the exact way we learned it. You will find the things eluded to in degrees of the Scottish Rite and other bodies fascinating, yet void of specifics. For a very good reason. One you might find should you chose to look in that direction.

Do us a favor, don't tell us what we do and don't know, and we wont tell you all about the things you hide in your underwear drawer and between your mattresses. fair enough?

Actually I was initiated into Demolay when I was 12 at a Scottish Rite temple. I had to watch a play in the temple of the founders of Demolay/Masonry, I had to ben hooded and hands bound behind my back and go to each cardinal direction and recite specific initiatory rituals. I had to place my hand on the bible and vow to never talk negatively of my brothers in the order. I left after a few years, as it was too serious and cult like for a kid my age at the time. Even my grandfather, who was a mason (and is the same person which had the Royal Arch, Lesser Key of Solomon, and Hermetic Science books in his closet when he died) told me not to join such a fraternity at my age, that I should enjoy being a kid and not try to be an adult while I'm a kid. It made sense to me afterwards.

My whole point of this discussion has been exactly that, to show that members deep within the fraternal order itself really have no clue what it's all about. It might seem "silly" to you that I have such an attitude, but I assure you, in reality it is the members themselves who are the MOST misled about the true origins and reality of it all. It is the members themselves who are most in the dark about what they do. Because they are in it for whatever reason, to join a group of hopefully like-minded men, to feel the need of communion and acceptance into a greater whole. Men who feel the need to belong to a cult, or an order, or a fraternity, it's all the same. The ones who are not dependent on such groups, or society, or fraternities, the ones who are NOT dependent upon the acceptance of support of others, they are the true magickians. They have outside perspective, they are not consumed by the hierarchy of degrees and labels associated with them. Even Crowley himself, who climbed the ranks of the Golden Dawn and initiated multiple secret orders himself, he didn't belong in any one order. He was an outcast, a pioneer, an entrepreneuer. You can tell a pioneer by the arrows in his back...So, yes, I do claim that I am in a position that allows me to have a different perspective on the order itself and the members within. Maybe not a "better" or "worse" perspective, but a different one nonetheless, one in which they cannot have by definition.

reply to post by Kody27


Well. I guess you can feel superior in that you "know" all about those mysterious things we low level masons just don't grasp. I am sure your Demolay education was vastly superior to that of a master mason with regards to masonry.

The way I wrote that is exactly the way you come across with this garbage. Brotherly love and charity. Yea, I'll stick with those for now.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Kody27

 

Well. I guess you can feel superior in that you "know" all about those mysterious things we low level masons just don't grasp. I am sure your Demolay education was vastly superior to that of a master mason with regards to masonry.

The way I wrote that is exactly the way you come across with this garbage. Brotherly love and charity. Yea, I'll stick with those for now.

Mmm that's interesting, and informative...not.

It's common knowledge that Freemasonry originated from Egyptology and the Mason's practices and rituals are significantly connected to the Fraternal Order of the Golden Dawn. Anyone who says otherwise is either misinformed, in denial, ignorant, or intentionally misleading you.

Originally posted by Kody27

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Kody27

 

Well. I guess you can feel superior in that you "know" all about those mysterious things we low level masons just don't grasp. I am sure your Demolay education was vastly superior to that of a master mason with regards to masonry.

The way I wrote that is exactly the way you come across with this garbage. Brotherly love and charity. Yea, I'll stick with those for now.

Mmm that's interesting, and informative...not.

It's common knowledge that Freemasonry originated from Egyptology and the Mason's practices and rituals are significantly connected to the Fraternal Order of the Golden Dawn. Anyone who says otherwise is either misinformed, in denial, ignorant, or intentionally misleading you.

You are speculating and speaking on what you THINK you know sir. Please provide some proof of your claims. Is that too much too ask?