Pythagorean Hylozoics

Originally posted by tgidkp
it is not difficult to find info on the Pythagorean cult, so I assume you are hoping someone to reveal a dusty old tome clearly labeled with the words "thee olde Pythagorean hylozoics"?

It is probably not very likely to find anyone who REALLY knows anything about it beyond innuendo and supposition I admit, but since it had been mentioned once, I thought it was worth a shot.

here's a thought: go to your local university library and bury your head for a few days. and then come back and YOU tell US what this is all about.

And I'm not sure why you assume I'm doing otherwise!

I'm looking forward to reading your report....

And I'm looking forward to you visiting a thread where you can actually contribute something of value

Originally posted by booyakasha
I know Ford Johnson mentions hylozoism a little in his book "Confessions of a God Seeker"

I've heard that there are differing "schools" of thought as to which explication of hylozoics is the (more) correct one. And read at least a couple authors (Henry T. Laurency for one) that say hylozoISM is an entirely different animal than hylozoICS.

Hi, i'd like to join the ongoing conversation by saying that i just checked out the info of the first posts links, and it gives a first insight on the subject -the second, beautifully summarized, that seems to have a lot of background work, i might add-

Since i dont know much about the topic i just checked the words:
HYLO- : wood , matter
dictionary.reference.com...
-ZOI: life
www.greek-names.info...

This may seem the very basics but it gives briefly an idea on what is about: so, it is about that: matter is alive.

Easy to digest-even not hard to find out by rational proccess, but also sadly easy to forget.

Just my first thoughts.
Well, i keep reading.

Cheers.

Hi,

I have had to stay pretty focused scholastically, but I have noticed a few strange things along the way that really intrigued me. For instance, it seems pretty obvious to me that poor old philosophy has taken a very long fall from grace. Seems to me, that it was probably supposed to be taught along with logic, math and then geometry so that it could be what it was supposed to be; a tool for creating actual working social change that has a tendency to gravitate towards justice instead of, maybe, Laurency's barbarism.

So, it was neat to find out about hylozoics, but I am afraid that, for me, it will just be a trip or two past the showroom window.

I have to ask why a young person with so many years ahead of them, would choose to study hylozoics. There is a tremendous amount of material there, and even the single intro page that was linked in the OP comes with a test at the end. Seems obvious that there is a great amount of detail in there that must be memorized, and, I suppose, applied somehow.

Why would a young person in 2013 choose to study life's mysteries through hylozoics rather than say, bioinformatics, membrane computing and computational biology, or, for that matter, chemistry?

I don't know that I can contribute much to your ongoing study of the subject PH, but I can refer you to something regarding PH that was written by the same soul, I believe, that got you interested in PH so recently.

laurency.com...

Basically an author's interpretation of HTL's work.

There was some potentially valid and scientifically provable stuff on the subtle bodies, but then there's all that caste system crap. It's like a heinous little rider clause on an otherwise innocuous piece of legislation.

1. Death does not make one whole, and reincarnation is a gross distortion of the relationship between the One and the manifest.

2. One cannot achieve unity through hierarchical progression.

3. It's the same old pyramid scheme, and it activates my disgust to the fullest.

And let's say, for argument's sake, that there is some kind of secret line of transmission that can be traced back to Pythagoras and his math cult, and that you guys are now bringing the plebs the fire down from the mountain. How useful is it going to be to us, given that very little of it can be substantiated through direct experience? Particularly if what is useful serves as a vehicle for a means of control and is just more social taxonomy masquerading as esotericism?

For anyone who is curious, here is a very good read on the subtle body by a guy who credits his sources, weeds out the fascist ideology tainting their work, and brings scientific rigor to the table:

www.dapla.org...

reply to post by Bybyots
Why would a young person in 2013 choose to study life's mysteries through hylozoics rather than say, bioinformatics, membrane computing and computational biology, or, for that matter, chemistry?

1) There is no REAL reason why they must be mutually exclusive.

2) Philosophy (maybe a better term would be "the mysteries of life") in many cultures, back when it was still studied, was an older man's game - after the family, after the career, after the lifely duties are pretty well in hand, only then.

3) A young person may NOT want to, there is nothing wrong with that!

But even as a young man, I personally found myself VERY disatisified with the "answers" that I was given. And I am willing to admit, NORMAL life suffered somewhat. I have been a (largely) unsatisfied seeker pretty much all my life.

"Unsatisfied" ONLY because I have not found the "one true religion", "the answer to the universe" (42?), and etc - I have GREATLY enjoyed the search. Truth, where ever I can find it, is my religion now - and it can be found in some pretty strange places

I don't care if his name is Crowley, Obama, Idiot, or Snickerdoodle (and no, those names are not equivalent I "heard" a wise man say once that a wise man can learn from even a fool.

Originally posted by hyperboholic
There was some potentially valid and scientifically provable stuff on the subtle bodies, but then there's all that caste system crap.

Please define specifically what it is you are referring to by "caste system crap".

Originally posted by hyperboholic
1. Death does not make one whole, and reincarnation is a gross distortion of the relationship between the One and the manifest.

2. One cannot achieve unity through hierarchical progression.

3. It's the same old pyramid scheme, and it activates my disgust to the fullest.

1. How is reincarnation a gross distortion of ...?

2. Why do you believe on cannot achieve unity through ... (and please define unity)?

3. How is it a pyramid scheme exactly?

Originally posted by hyperboholic
How useful is it going to be to us, given that very little of it can be substantiated through direct experience?

How do you know, why do you say that with such conviction?

Originally posted by hyperboholic
Particularly if what is useful serves as a vehicle for a means of control and is just more social taxonomy masquerading as esotericism?

I am not sure how you have ALREADY reached this SEEMINGLY inevitable conclusion but - since you have, I have no flippin' clue why you (anyone) would choose to inflict it upon yourself! (or yourself upon it . . . if you get my drift, friend )

Originally posted by nimrod20032003

Please define specifically what it is you are referring to by "caste system crap".

All the references lifted from the Vedas that served as a theocratic means to reinforce a strict caste system in Indian culture. Oppression and stratification pushed as "divine law".

1. How is reincarnation a gross distortion of ...?

An unbroken continuum vs. a bunch of separate little chunks of divinity being endlessly recycled. We come from the One, each and everyone of us unique in all of creation and time, and when we pass, we leave what we have created.

Punishment is a human construct, not a law, divine or otherwise. Karma and the notion of bettering oneself through reincarnation are fairy tales used by oppressors to maintain their station, and by the oppressed to comfort themselves when they observe people who break the rules prosper in spite of their antisocial behavior.

2. Why do you believe on cannot achieve unity through ... (and please define unity)?

Because taxonomic hierarchy separates humans into neat little categories, and assigns them an arbitrary value. Inequality and unity are mutually exclusive.

3. How is it a pyramid scheme exactly?

Because the authors pretend to a higher authority, and are attempting to recruit more... ahem... initiates.

I am not sure how you have ALREADY reached this SEEMINGLY inevitable conclusion.

I'm a quick study and have a prior acquaintance with most of the source material.

reply to post by hyperboholic

If these are your conclusions regarding PH and if you are as firm in them as you "sound", may I ask, why then are you HERE (in this thread, not metaphysically :-)

I don' t mean to be snarky but just, WHY? It honestly makes no sense to me.

reply to post by nimrod20032003


Because:

a. I'm pretty sure there's a profit angle, which means there's an attempt to exploit the readerbase.

b. If one has chosen this particular forum as an insertion vector due to a false perception of the members as easy marks, I find that offensive.

c. I don't care for plagiarists or frauds.

If the work has merit, it'll survive the flames, ne?

I notice that aside from a batch of deflective questioning, you have failed to address any of the critiques put forth.

"If it doesn't resonate with you, then quit drawing people's attention to the flaws," will not serve for long as an adequate defense.


Oh, and:

d. Theocratic control systems are icky, and the author's sources wanted to base theirs on race.

reply to post by hyperboholic
I notice that aside from a batch of deflective questioning, you have failed to address any of the critiques put forth.

1) I am here seeking information on it. I am reading/learning as fast as I can and will relay it as best I can but ... c'mon dude, REALLY!

2) I don't know what deflective questioning you are talking about exactly, you'll have to ... oh, you mean where I asked you what you meant by those negative-ishy things you insinuated about PH:

Well, I asked those questions in order to find out specifically what you were talking about in the context of THIS thread on PYTHAGOREAN HYLOZOICS (as opposed to whateverinheck pseudo-occulto-esoterico-trojanhorse-strawmanosaurus-ism) if any. If you put on your tinfoil hat and think real hard you can probably figure out for yourself why I did not respond to them.

3) I read VERY fast and comprehend well but much as I hate to admit it, I'm just not good enough to defend something that I am just TRYING MYSELF TO LEARN ABOUT in realtime! C'mon dude!

4) Most of the rest of your post is either off-topic, accusatory (without the slightest attempt to give a single SHRED of evidence), or just downright offensive.

THERE IS NOBODY HERE TO DEFEND PH (thus far) - I really don't know how to make this any clearer to you.

The purpose (topic) of this thread is to LEARN about PH so that we can make up our own, albeit feeble, minds for ourselves.

I understand debunker types think their superior intellect is needed to save us seekers from ourownselfs (as opposed to take your (royal you - another's) WORD for it - but I for one have my big girl pants on.

So please go find another beach and kick sand in someone else's face. I give, you know more about it than I do (for now). Now, do you mind allowing us the opportunity to learn about it for ourselves?

I, the sole originator of this thread, have no monetary profit motive whatsomever in it. I am neither a fraud, nor a plagiarist. And I take extreme umbrage at the blatant, unmistakeable insinuation. The mods make a big deal of no insults, harrassment, civility, and etc - I guess we'll see how impartial they are.

Unless you should see fit to turn your life around and actually participate in this thread in order to LEARN more about it than you already THINK you know, I shan't be responding to you further

Originally posted by nimrod20032003

The purpose (topic) of this thread is to LEARN about PH so that we can make up our own, albeit feeble, minds for ourselves.

Oh, your mind is anything but feeble, and I think very highly of the memberbase.

I understand debunker types think their superior intellect is needed to save us seekers from ourownselfs (as opposed to take your (royal you - another's) WORD for it - but I for one have my big girl pants on.

Oh, you are a lady? My regards to the wife mentioned in your sig.

I, the sole originator of this thread, have no monetary profit motive whatsomever in it. I am neither a fraud, nor a plagiarist. And I take extreme umbrage at the blatant, unmistakeable insinuation.

You pop onto the Thread-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named to spoonfeed the OP his questions when the members did not prove to be amenable to suggestion. In this thread, there appears to be an understanding between yourself and other, very recently established members. You frequently betray a facility with the material you claim to have a novice-level grounding in.

You might not be the plagiarist, and I doubt you are. But you are facilitating the spread of his work, and I have to wonder why.

Okay, one last reply (for the sake of humor only you understand :-)

Originally posted by nimrod20032003
I understand debunker types think their superior intellect is needed to save us seekers from ourownselfs (as opposed to take your (royal you - another's) WORD for it - but I for one have my big girl pants on.

Originally posted by hyperboholic
Oh, you are a lady? My regards to the wife mentioned in your sig.

No, I just wear her panties from time to time

Actually, I "heard" another poster in the TTSRN (thread that shall remain nameless) by the PTSRN (poster that shall remain nameless) say it (female I assume) and thought - in this insane politically correct era - "oh man, I just gotta find a way to use that".

Thank you for helping me to mark another item off my bucket list

Sorry if I confused you

Originally posted by hyperboholic
You pop onto the Thread-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named to spoonfeed the OP his questions when the members did not prove to be amenable to suggestion.

Because I WANTED TO HEAR HOW HE WOULD ANSWER so I could figure out if there was anything to his system for MYSELF!

Hooboy, and I am the one with the username nimrod, yoiks!

Okay, that's it. No more replies for you until YOU put your bigboy pants on and get with the program

No, I just wear her panties from time to time

Okay, that was pretty funny.

Because I WANTED TO HEAR HOW HE WOULD ANSWER so I could figure out if there was anything to his system for MYSELF!

I did likewise, and am voicing my critiques of the system.

Hooboy, and I am the one with the username nimrod, yoiks!

Oh, I assumed that was a reference to this. Womp womp.

Okay, that's it. No more replies for you until YOU put your bigboy pants on and get with the program

Just to be clear:

Some stories exert a pull on us. We model our ourselves, our relationships, our societies after them, and they might as well be a program. There's power in a story, and since the first shaman faked a conversation with a higher power in exchange for food he didn't produce, there are always people willing to milk the stories that have the pull.

So, say you get a bead on a really potent story you think most people have forgotten. You repackage it and deploy it via social media vectors. Benefits include:

a. Webtraffic cashflow
b. Literature sales
c. Potential donors/members

Of course, you'd need a team for that...

I think both of you made your points pretty clear, that's feels good for a change.
..and suggest further thinking.. in order to reach your own conclusions.. and mayb that's at least one of the reasons for participating in these forums.

Originally posted by hyperboholic
So, say you get a bead on a really potent story you think most people have forgotten. You repackage it and deploy it via social media vectors. Benefits include:

a. Webtraffic cashflow
b. Literature sales
c. Potential donors/members

Of course, you'd need a team for that...

Okay, it's possible I admit. But so far nonesuch is in evidence, is it?

The only source of ANY kind HWSRN ever mentioned, that I recall offhand, was his background in "pythagorean hylozoics" and didn't even give a reference EXCEPT to say that it was NOT one of those for which you have to pay!!!! let me repeat that he said the best source for anyone interested was NOT one of those you would have to pay for !!!! !!!



OKAY now, that's IT!!! I MEAN it, I'm not replying unless you get ON the topic!

Unless you . . . .

im down with this thread. i read some of the russian ladys stuff and couldnt make sense of it. i am interested in the revelations one certain person was about to make and find it very suspicious ph is so controversial and heavily moderated now. dont fall into the same trap in this thread, the detractors care way too much and its weird. im all for just ignoring them.

one thing i dont like is the ph saying lucifer is a good guy. just dont like it. much of the one certain thread was resonating like a mf with me though.

Originally posted by Bertha
one thing i dont like is the ph saying lucifer is a good guy. just dont like it. much of the one certain thread was resonating like a mf with me though.

Where did you hear/read that pythagorean hylozoics says lucifer was a good guy? Have a reference?

reply to post by nimrod20032003

Hi,I am a believer in reincarnation too,and my sense of it is that humans do indeed only reincarnate as humans.If this life is a learning center,then in humanform a soul is in a much better position to learn from many angles and perspectives,the life of an animal precludes learning from more than very basic+limited experiences,after all.I also don't see how "downgrading" to animalform would serve the evolutionary process of the soul journey,not even as far as working off karma is concerned.I am a bit hesitant to use the term downgrading here though,considering the nature and purity of animals,but it will have to suffice.Anyway,just an interesting snippet,glad you enjoyed it,have a good weekend.