Islam's Lie: "There Is No Compulsion In Religion" (2:256)

reply to post by Kgnow

the meaning of Taghut

Those who avoid At-Taghut (false deities) by not worshiping them and turn to Allah (in repentance), for them are glad tidings; so announce the good news to My servants -Koran 39:17

here Taghut means a leader, a false leader, the the face of monotheism and true freedom is so fantastic in Koran. Koran is guiding humanity to avoid slavery of false deities like corrupted governments, corrupted leaders, even corrupted clerics ! and it is insisting on worshiping only the almighty God (Allah), like other monotheistic religions.
Taghut means rebellion against monotheism, against God.

And has the story of Moses reached you? , When he saw a fire and said to his family, "Stay here; indeed, I have perceived a fire; perhaps I can bring you a torch or find at the fire some guidance.", And when he came to it, he was called, "O Moses, Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa., And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed [to you], Indeed, I am Allah . There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance, Indeed, the Hour is coming - I almost conceal it - so that every soul may be recompensed according to that for which it strives, So do not let one avert you from it who does not believe in it and follows his desire, for you [then] would perish, And what is that in your right hand, O Moses?, He said, "It is my staff; I lean upon it, and I bring down leaves for my sheep and I have therein other uses.", [ Allah ] said, "Throw it down, O Moses, So he threw it down, and thereupon it was a snake, moving swiftly. [ Allah ] said, "Seize it and fear not; We will return it to its former condition. And draw in your hand to your side; it will come out white without disease - another sign, That We may show you [some] of Our greater signs. Go to Pharaoh. Indeed, he has transgressed. " -Koran 20:24

Pharaoh is a symbol of Taghut and he transgressed because he claimed that he was a God !

the true meaning of "there is no compulsion in the religion"

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. -Koran 2:256

your big mistake is that you are saying that Taghut means non_muslim, and Allah means muslim. no you are wrong.
Allah is the God of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) and Taghut means corrupted leaders, those who are misleading humanity, those who have enslaved humanity, those who are against monotheism !

It is one of the verses that show that Islam is not based on the sword and killing, and that it does not allow Muslims to compel or coerce others to accept Islam. It is contrary to the view held by many Muslims and non-Muslims alike that Islam is the religion of the sword. They bring as their evidence the legislation of jihad which is one of the pillars of Islam.

'Abd ibn Hamid, Ibn Jarir and Ibnu'l-Mundhir have narrated from Mujahid that he said: (The tribe of) Nadir had suckled some people from the tribe of Aws. When the Prophet ordered their banishment, their foster sons from the Aws said: 'We shall go with them and enter into their religion.' But their families prevented them and compelled them to (accept) Islam. Then came down the verse about them: There is no compulsion in the religion. (ad-Durru'l-manthur)

the conflict of Bani Qarize

(26. And those of the People of the Scripture ( Bani Qarize) who backed them (elites of Mecca), Allah brought them down from their forts and cast terror into their hearts; a group you killed, and a group you made captives.) (27. And He caused you to inherit their lands, and their houses, and their riches, and a land which you had not trodden. And Allah is able to do all things.) -Koran 33:26

these verses are about the jew tribe of Bani Qarize. this shows that they had betrayed muslims who were at war with polytheists of Mecca and they had broke the peace contract. the jews of Bani Qarize wanted to attack the muslims family whose men were at war with the elites of Mecca.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by Kgnow

 

and since Islam breeds Fundamentalism, they will find all sorts of ways to justify what ever they want no matter what their scripture says.

well as you are aware. and you know well that I can quote parts of mistranslated and altered Bible and Torah which you know that you can never justify it ! right !?

Only part of Islam I see as legit, is the Sufis. However, they predate mohammed/islam, and basically had to slip into the folds of Islam to survive being murdered and snuffed out as a whole

what do you mean that Sufism predates Islam ! it has become a sect for itself. it is based on Islam.
I respect your eagerness in mysticism so I should insist that mysticism has no border and no name like Sufism. mysticism is part of humanity to reach the truth, and of course monotheistic religions are the nearest path. regardless of what follower of each monotheistic religion may think that it's own path is the nearest path to the truth. however this is natural that people choose a path and they believe that their path is the best.
I offer you to study more on Islamic mysticism it can be more useful than Buddhism.

reply to post by maes2

well as you are aware. and you know well that I can quote parts of mistranslated and altered Bible and Torah which you know that you can never justify it ! right !?

Anyone can mistranslate anything. That's why there are so many different branches/denominations of Islam, Judaism Christianity, Hinduism.....

The problem is, that the dogmatic fundies in all religions, take so called "scripture" and twist it into whatever they like or don't like.

what do you mean that Sufism predates Islam !

There are various schools of thought and academia that argues that Sufism existed prior to Islam/Muhammed, and because of threats, integrated itself into Islam to survive.

When it predated Islam, it could have gotten it's techniques to go within from various sources

it has become a sect for itself

According to who? That statement is relative because a person can say that Islam has become a sect that was born out of the Arab countries

I respect your eagerness in mysticism so I should insist that mysticism has no border and no name like Sufism. mysticism is part of humanity to reach the truth, and of course monotheistic religions are the nearest path. regardless of what follower of each monotheistic religion may think that it's own path is the nearest path to the truth. however this is natural that people choose a path and they believe that their path is the best. I offer you to study more on Islamic mysticism it can be more useful than Buddhism.

I have studied for years and have quite a few Sufi friends who are authors and teachers on the subject. Many who tour the world teaching to go within.

I adore the inner aspects of Sufism as universal approaches that coincide with the rest of the Mystical schools world wide. I know some Sufi's that are more Christ-Like than many Christians I know.....

reply to post by Kgnow


On yersel'

Good grief - you've been truly suckered into the whole divide and conquer thing haven't you.

Are you a Christian? Maybe an irrelevant question, but if you claim to be I reckon you're breaking a handful of commandments at least. Whatever happened to love thy neighbour. Treat others as you would be treated yourself etc. etc.

You want this thread to be about Islam alone - you want to point out it's brutality and it's inadequacies in glorious isolation - but that's not realistic. You know full well that were you to pick apart the teachings and practices of the Jewish and Christian religions we could identify equally horrific conduct and morality.

So basically your op is an exercise in spreading hate - nothing more than that. Ask yourself - what would Jesus do?

What makes you so sure your religion is right, as opposed to theirs?


But to stay on topic, when the Christians were going around killing non-christians, Muslims actually let them live amongst them. While they didn't live as equals, they weren't killed, which was pretty lenient for the times, compared to Christianity.

reply to post by Kgnow

As a result of Muhammad’s indiscriminate robbery of merchant caravans and his tyrannical attacks against Banu Qaynuga and Banu Nadir

I love your twist on history. These people attacked Muhammad then they get their butts kicked so they get expelled from their nations and Muhammad is the tyrannical one? What was he supposed to do say here I am kill me?

Originally posted by Kgnow

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
@ op

Please explain to all of us at ATS how Iran is home to 25,000 Jews.
Also explain how India remains a Hindu nation despite being ruled by Muslims for several centuries.

Consider these as counter points to your claims.

After building-up Islam’s military in Medina, Muhammad and his four immediate successors swept through Arabia and the Middle-East converting and conquering by the sword according to the 9th Chapter of the Qu’an (Suratul Tawbah), which the OP illustrates, Chapter 9 abrogates all earlier proclamations of peace and freedom of religion. All Hadith/Sunnah, Muhammad's biographical accounts, and historic account can easily verify.

Christianity as well as Judaism did the same thing in the founding stages of their religions. I look forward to your threads whining about those religions doing the same thing.

ATS is supposed to be a place for alternative views, a place where the mainstream media's propaganda is not welcome.

It seems most members of this forum see through much of the propaganda, except when it feeds into homophobic, islamophobic, or racist hatred, then there seems to be a portion of members which lap it up.

Why do we feel the need to hate on some minority? Does it make us feel better about ourselves? I know this thread sure makes Christianities past seem a little bit less brutal by comparison - surely then it is comforting to Christians, they can rest assured that they truly are the peaceful ones, they can sleep well knowing they are in the right. Americans in support of the current foreign policy can also feel a little better about the invasion and genocide in the middle east. That, I feel, was the reason for the islamophobic propaganda campaign in the first place.

If there is a bunch of people hating on some group, you've got to ask why?

Is it just about oil, or is it something more?

reply to post by Kgnow


Very informative thread Kgnow. It's always nice to learn more about religions (I mean just as curiosity). I have a question for you though, are you a religious person?

I am a Muslim, and quite frankly this thread is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter to me what you guys think about Muhammad, the Imamat, or The Holy Qu 'ran. All I know is that when I read and listen to the Qu 'ran in arabic (not the English translation as meaning gets lost during the process) it brings tears to my eyes. Here I am 24 years old, an American outright and served my country for 4 years and I am brought to tears by this Holy Book. You guys don't have to believe it, but let me tell you something. If you can just distinguish between the end of a word and the beginning of a word in Arabic, and you listen to a Surah recited out of this book. You will soon become a Muslim. It just feels right. I can finally call myself , Like Jesus Christ and his companions were called, followers of the way.


And as always remember:

Surah: Al Muddaththir: 74: 31 And We have not made the keepers of the Fire except angels. And We have not made their number except as a trial for those who disbelieve - that those who were given the Scripture will be convinced and those who have believed will increase in faith and those who were given the Scripture and the believers will not doubt and that those in whose hearts is hypocrisy and the disbelievers will say, "What does Allah intend by this as an example?" Thus does Allah leave astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And none knows the soldiers of your Lord except Him. And mention of the Fire is not but a reminder to humanity

reply to post by NeoMuslim

and I am brought to tears by this Holy Book. You guys don't have to believe it, but let me tell you something. If you can just distinguish between the end of a word and the beginning of a word in Arabic, and you listen to a Surah recited out of this book. You will soon become a Muslim. It just feels right. I can finally call myself , Like Jesus Christ and his companions were called, followers of the way.

I am brought to tears by reading Buddhist scripture, zen koans, Socrates, the words in red in the new testament, the desert fathers, adi shankara........

I am a soul before any necessary labels like Muslim, Christian, atheist, philosopher, mystic

Originally posted by Kgnow
reply to post by Credenceskynyrd

 

Great point about apologists referencing Christianity.


I am hoping that in this thread, all disagreement and rebuttals will stay on topic to the above mentioned (Points #1-3) instead of using the tactic of deflection by mentioning other religions and other groups.

If anyone wants to discuss the wrongs of Europe, the U.S., the Christians, the Papacy, the Jews, or any other religious/political/cultural/national groups.... PLEASE make a separate thread about those issues. Here and now we are discussing all things directly relative to Qur'an verse 2:256

Why should people have to create another thread to talk about the violence and oppression of other religions besides Islam? This thread is clearly an Islam-bashing one, and it would seem that pointing out that other religions have bloody histories and oppressive and/or violent theologies would seem part and parcel to this. Of course, if others point out the negative aspects of other religions, that will undercut the purpose of this thread, which is to make Islam look bad.

I'm no defender of Islam, but solely pointing out negative aspects of Islam without acknowledging the negative aspects of other major religions -- particularly the two other major monotheistic ones -- is plainly being disingenuous.

You bring up Mohamed's personal history and actions. Why not bring up King David of the Jews as well? He also did a lot of very unsavory things, and he is still held in high esteem by Jews. A whole lot of nasty crap has been done in the name of Christianity, not least of which is the fact that the Catholic Church has protected pedophile priests for decades, if not centuries. The Church's part in the Inquisitions of the 1500/1600's are also abominations.

But you don't want to discuss such matters. You only want to discuss bad things about Islam and the bad things done by key Muslims in the past. You want to paint a very one-sided picture, which is pure and simple religious bigotry. Why there are all these Islam-bashing threads here is beyond me. Worry about your own religion and the things your government does.

reply to post by Kgnow


So it seems that this Muhammad lied, then murdered the guy and married the guys wife. He sounds peaceful to me. I think that this passage you have shown us pretty much sums it all up. Thank you for sharing this. I will pass it on.

Originally posted by rjbaggins
reply to post by Kgnow

 

So it seems that this Muhammad lied, then murdered the guy and married the guys wife. He sounds peaceful to me. I think that this passage you have shown us pretty much sums it all up. Thank you for sharing this. I will pass it on.

Yeah, Mohammed is a lot like King David of the Jews in that way then, huh? David committed adultery with Bathsheba and got her pregnant, and out of fear of what Uriah, her husband would do, sent him off to a battle in an unwinnable situation in order to get Uriah killed. Then there are all the cities and towns that David had the occupants slaughtered in order to ethnically cleanse them for his chosen people. Oh yeah, we aren't supposed to speak ill of any religion besides Islam in this thread. My bad.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by NeoMuslim

 

and I am brought to tears by this Holy Book. You guys don't have to believe it, but let me tell you something. If you can just distinguish between the end of a word and the beginning of a word in Arabic, and you listen to a Surah recited out of this book. You will soon become a Muslim. It just feels right. I can finally call myself , Like Jesus Christ and his companions were called, followers of the way.

I am brought to tears by reading Buddhist scripture, zen koans, Socrates, the words in red in the new testament, the desert fathers, adi shankara........

I am a soul before any necessary labels like Muslim, Christian, atheist, philosopher, mystic

You're absolutely correct, having said that please pay respect to the second portion of my original post. Life of a Soul is about balance. As is the life of a Muslim, everything in due proportion. What separates The Qu 'ran from any other scripture is its ability to go into detail in the subjects of Science, Nature, Well -Being, War, and Politics without ever contradicting itself. It makes you strong! believe me, it makes you spiritually and physically stronger than those who do not believe. It holds you higher, a higher standard of living. Now that whats the Qu 'ran does for me, if you would rather be Buddhist or read another scripture that's fine with me. However Islam is made tough because a society's way of thinking is much like the shape of an egg. While trying to break the egg using one hand would be difficult without tossing or smashing it. However if you where a ring and crush it using the same hand, it will break very easily. As that compared to society, when everyone is society is in full belief and a strong believer they are then they will be hard to crush or even alter their way of thinking. However if some of those people are bad and gain power, then you see the ring being placed on the hand and ideals slowly changing over time. Now does that mean I hate you? or anyone that isn't a believer? No absolutely not, that is your right. However, in this day and age, it would be hard for us to live in this type of society because I would not like you to infringe on my doctrine nor would you like me to infringe on your own doctrine. Thus the world we live in is very misguided.

I grew up a very conservative Lutheran Christian. I believed every word of it until I was in my late teens. I ultimately married a Jewish female and am currently atheist. I first realized that when your religion states the woman you love is condemned to burn in hell for eternity that is not a good foundation for a successful marriage. My grandfather was a pastor and a professor of comparative religions so I have read the Koran, the Christian Bible, the Tanakh and the Book of Mormon. Ultimately, all these religions are totally convinced that they are right to the exclusion of all other religions.

My thought process is pretty simple.

If there really is an all powerful God, would he have allowed different religions to be created and set his children against each other?

If there really was a God, why would there not be any clear communication and such vague and often conflicting advice in the religious books?

Since scientists now estimate dark energy / dark matter must make up 95% of the universe in order to explain movements of galaxies and stars, that they have no way to observe or detect dark matter, scientifically, it is not out of the realm of possibility that God does exist. As an atheist, I can admit to that.

But, what should be clear to everyone is that these books that have been held so dear by so many the world over are accounts that were written by the victors in battle or politics and the message conveyed is not divined from God, but, rather by the biases of the men or women that wrote them. For all of the good ideals these books convey, the false prophets of each of these religions that has led to the deaths of millions over the millennia should make every reader take pause to make sure they truly understand what their religion asks of them? Blind faith is a danger to all of us.

When Bush gave his State of the Union address in 2002 and stated, "This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while..." the meaning shouldn't have been lost on anyone. When Islam groups kill in the name of Allah, it is the same. The truth is that killing in the name of God is evil, trying to convert someone to your religion upon the pain of an extreme punishment if that someone is non compliant is evil, using the power of religion to start a war and using that religion to continue to convince the masses of the rightness of the war is evil. Each of Judaism, Christianity and Islam has been guilty of these crimes countless times.

My challenge to these religions is to bring the good values of your religion to the world in a manner that does not require my obedience to your beliefs and lead through the example of good deeds. When that can be accomplished, perhaps I can be swayed that I am wrong in my belief not to believe. But, even if I live to 100, I am pretty sure I won't live to see that day.

OK, I did not throw a stone at any particular religion, I have laid down a challenge to behave like good human beings to your fellow man. At the end of the day, our legacy on this planet is our children, our integrity and the respect we show to each other. If there were an after-life, I would like to think that no matter how religious a person professed to be or thought they were, nothing good will await them when they arrive if they can't meet these basic values.

reply to post by dougie6665

see man, I am not advertising any religion and I am sure that one can find similar statements in Bible and Torah, of course if they have not been altered yet !

If there really is an all powerful God, would he have allowed different religions to be created and set his children against each other?

your answer: Humanity is the source of difference, not God.

Mankind was [of] one religion [before their deviation]; then Allah (almighty God) sent the prophets as bringers of good tidings and warners and sent down with them the Scripture in truth to judge between the people concerning that in which they differed. And none differed over the Scripture except those who were given it - after the clear proofs came to them - out of jealous animosity among themselves. And Allah guided those who believed to the truth concerning that over which they had differed, by His permission. And Allah guides whom He wills to a straight path. -Koran 2:213

And if your Lord had willed, He could have made mankind one community; but they will not cease to differ.(because they are free to choose and do !) -Koran 11:118

And for every nation is a messenger. So when their messenger comes, it will be judged between them in justice, and they will not be wronged -Koran 10:47

God has only one religion ! that is nothing but submission to him (meaning of the word Islam) !!!

Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." -Koran 2:136

And [remember] when I inspired to the disciples, "Believe in Me and in My messenger Jesus." They said, "We have believed, so bear witness that indeed we are Muslims [in submission to Allah ]." -Koran 5:111

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah (God) ]. And he was not of the polytheists. -Koran 3:67

Since scientists now estimate dark energy / dark matter must make up 95% of the universe in order to explain movements of galaxies and stars, that they have no way to observe or detect dark matter, scientifically, it is not out of the realm of possibility that God does exist. As an atheist, I can admit to that.

denying the existence of God is the same as denying Logic, second law of thermodynamics and .... !

Guy who started this topic is RETARDED. Buy a brain.

reply to post by wildtimes

How exceptionally pushy and RUDE, Sk0rpi0n! YOU HAVE TOTALLY derailed Kgnow's thread and are trying to hijack it and make it your own, by doing the EXACT thing that he very politely asked you (and others) to refrain from doing!!

So now its "pushy and rude" to post examples from history that completely refute the OP's claim that Muslims force Islam on everybody they encounter?

You have YET to answer any serious questions about Islam's problematic tendencies - all you EVER do is point at "other religions", like a 2nd grader.

I'm not pointing at other religions... I was giving you examples of Muslim empires and governments that did not force conversion on non-Muslims.

reply to post by wildtimes

I'd report Sk0rp for deliberate trolling and off-topic behavior if this was my thread.

Oh please. If anything at all, someone should moderate the rash of anti-Muslim threads that have been popping up on ATS in the last couple of days (yours included). It looks like its open season on Islam here on ATS, and me and the other Muslims on here have been doing our best to address the issue as politely as we can... only to be called trolls engaging in off-topic behavior.

The arguments of all the people making these threads, pretty much begins and ends with "Islam bad", with some copy-pastes from anti-Islamic sites or links to videos made by people with an obvious agenda against Islam. They are unwilling to listen to what the Muslims have to say about an Islamic issue, and cling on to what they believe is the "truth" about Islam.