Gay Colorado couple sues bakery for allegedly refusing them wedding cake

reply to post by Nucleardiver


No one is forcing the baker to accept gay marriage or homosexuality or to change his opinions. He is forced, by law, to provide his business services to ALL citizens equally. It's a basic tenet of our founding documents. Equality.

reply to post by esdad71



Of course it fair? It's not only fair but it would be fantastic if this happened.
If you want to be a stupid, closed minded bigot then you must face the consequences.
There is no place in a modern tolerant society for this business, unless they change their ways, then they deserve everything they get.

What is sad, is in all honesty, I am very open minded but. None of you who are defending the two men are seeing the fact they targeted this bakery and could have gone somewhere else. Then with the power of social media put this guy out of business. Easy as that. Am I defending the baker, hell no, but I am defending the right to personal choice, even if it is not a smart one. We all have this right in America.


My comment about specific races going to specific races is true and not meant to be racist in any way. same way in a black community they generally all know one another where in most white communities they do not know there neighbors. I am referring to NYC where I was born and not the south here. If you lived in Harlem, you mainly went to shops in Harlem that were in turn mainly owned by Blacks. Little Italy...Chinatown...open your eyes and put the emotion and personal feelings aside.

It is almost 2014. There are openly gay people everywhere, but still, there are those that want to push an agenda like these two guys. LIke the guy who has to walk down the street smoking a joint in public...no need. Attention grabbing to me.

Then, From a sociological standpoint, based on his stance, I think the owner might be in the closet. Maybe he thinks if he makes those cakes people will think he is gay and he has always worried about that. Ever see "AMERICAN BEAUTY"?

LGBT do great things like line my pockets with money. My wife runs a cruise agency and when she wanted a niche, I created a page specifically for gay cruising. They love her and she books tons of groups because some other agencies would not work with them or did not approve of the lifestyle.

So before you judge someone, put emotion and your beliefs aside and look at the whole picture and how it could be solved in other ways. No, all this baker will get is increased sales from those who hate the LGBT community. They are pushing back the cause with this and I think the majority of LGBT would think that as again, with anything, it is the minority that is making a case.

Just my 4 cents worth....

Originally posted by esdad71


It is 2014.

WOW..... you're like.... from the future!!!

reply to post by blupblup


Damn...My name is John Titor and I have something to say....

I meant to say almost. and when people try to argue not your points about the argument, but grammatical or typo errors..well...

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by blupblup

 

Damn...My name is John Titor and I have something to say....

I meant to say almost. and when people try to argue not your points about the argument, but grammatical or typo errors..well...

I ain't arguing dude, merely bringing some light relief to the thread.

You can carry on defending the Gay-Hating Bakery tools now.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


And why is he being forced to do something that he doesn't agree with? It's not the governments business, they don't pay his mortgage or his employees salary. The government didn't build up his business he did and as long as he isn't causing any actual harm to a person by refusing service then what is the big problem?

Here's a scenario. I live about 50 miles from the Standing Rock Indian Reservation in North and South Dakota and I have a side business repairing heavy equipment and farm equipment. Occasionally I get calls from down on the reservation to do work and I will not go down there for several reasons. One reason is that if I am on the reservation working and someone gets hurt due to my actions my liability insurance won't cover them without a special writer because it's on indian land that is it's own nation.

The second reason is because I have worked down there several times and 4 of the times I didn't get paid by the person which is not uncommon because of the way the law is designed and you have to sue to recover money it must be done before either a tribal magistrate or in federal court, both of which are a pain in the arse to do and really not worth it in the long run.

So next time I get a call to go there and refuse to go because it's dealing with the Indians does that give the government a right to force me to comply because otherwise I am discriminating against the Indians? It is my business and if I don't want to serve them then I have the right to refuse. Why does the government have the right to override my rights and my free will when my action in no way harms the other party?

It doesn't matter if he serves the public or not, private businesses should have the right to refuse service to anyone.

Someone not supporting homosexuality doesn't make them a bigot, it simply means they have a differing opinion. I will agree it's being unfair and they should provide to all customers but they shouldn't be forced to, as it's a personal (private) business.

I have gay friends and support their rights, but that doesn't mean they get to force other people to agree with their lifestyle, which most of them agree with themselves. One of the things that has pissed me off about this whole debate the last several years is how gays are trying to force everyone to adhere to them and if you disagree you are a bigot and lose your job, or in the case, have the success of your business threatened, and that's just as unfair.

The butcher, the baker and the dildo maker....some levity would be welcome I would think as would clearer heads.

Am I defending the baker, hell no, but I am defending the right to personal choice, even if it is not a smart one. We all have this right in America.

Personal choice. You may like having things jammed down your throat, having to accept everyone else's agenda and not having your own voice, but not me. That is not what this country was founded on. However, since the early 1900's, our rights have slowly but surely been whittled away by special agenda groups.

Where are the LGBT's protesting MIchelle Obama after she got in the face of that lesbian woman who paid to be at the home of a lesbian couple for a DNC fundraiser???? Special interest groups. A lesbian couple lets a lesbian be dragged from their own home...who is backing who in this country?

reply to post by MadhatterTheGreat

It doesn't matter if he serves the public or not, private businesses should have the right to refuse service to anyone.

And they can, so long as it is not discriminatory.

Someone not supporting homosexuality doesn't make them a bigot, it simply means they have a differing opinion. I will agree it's being unfair and they should provide to all customers but they shouldn't be forced to, as it's a personal (private) business.

Refusing service to someone based on one single thing like homosexuality actually DOES make that person a bigot, by definition.

Same as it would make someone a racist, if they did it solely based on the color of someones skin.

I have gay friends and support their rights, but that doesn't mean they get to force other people to agree with their lifestyle,

No one is forcing anyone to agree with anything. People are, however, starting to be expected to act like a civil society. Meaning, just because you dont agree with someone, doesnt mean you can discriminate against them.

which most of them agree with themselves. One of the things that has pissed me off about this whole debate the last several years is how gays are trying to force everyone to adhere to them

How so? By refusing to be treated like second rate citizens?

them and if you disagree you are a bigot and lose your job

No, but if you discriminate, then yes.

or in the case, have the success of your business threatened, and that's just as unfair.

Its unfair that we have civil laws in our society? So its unfair that a place cant refuse service to blacks or asians or hispanics? Its unfair that women have to be treated equally to men? Its unfair that we have started to move ourselves into a more tolerant society?

Originally posted by esdad71


Where are the LGBT's protesting MIchelle Obama after she got in the face of that lesbian woman who paid to be at the home of a lesbian couple for a DNC fundraiser???? Special interest groups. A lesbian couple lets a lesbian be dragged from their own home...who is backing who in this country?

edit on 7-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)

That lesbian woman was heckling and disrupting Michelle's speech. There were other lesbians there who were not disruptive - they were not escorted out.

What does that have to do with a gay couple being refused service simply because they were gay?

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by esdad71


Where are the LGBT's protesting MIchelle Obama after she got in the face of that lesbian woman who paid to be at the home of a lesbian couple for a DNC fundraiser???? Special interest groups. A lesbian couple lets a lesbian be dragged from their own home...who is backing who in this country?

edit on 7-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)

That lesbian woman was heckling and disrupting Michelle's speech. There were other lesbians there who were not disruptive - they were not escorted out.

What does that have to do with a gay couple being refused service simply because they were gay?

Such blatant sensationalism is disappointing, and I give you credit for calling it out.

Funny, isnt it, how much people whine and cry about sensationalistic journalism and MSM misinformation, then turn around and spread the same things?

reply to post by kaylaluv


I was trying to show where a voice should be used and when it should not as well as how special interest groups have the upper hand. If I was gay, and had a fund raiser where people paid up to 10k a plate, I would have made the person who was up there giving the speech, no matter who it was, to answer the question of a fellow LGBT about something the person who is giving the speeches husband promised and did not deliver. You do not see this as hypocritical? Sorry if you cannot see the correlation. I compare it to the Jews in WW2 who stood by and said nothing. Same thing.

Heckling and disrupting...she was asking a question. A question about a promise.

reply to post by Nucleardiver


You say you don't work in that area. That's not discriminatory. If you normally went on the res to do work, but refused to go to there to do work for a certain person BECAUSE HE'S DISABLED, you would be discriminating. As it is, you're not going there because of liability reasons and their payment collection laws. Neither of those are discrimination.

Discrimination is refusing to do business with someone because of their race, color, creed, national origin, sexual orientation, ancestry, religion, gender, physical or mental disability or marital status.

I'd expect the bakery to sell the cake for the same reason that companies don't have office hours for only one day a year: it's business. Yeah, owners have the right to refuse service to anybody, but that doesn't mean it's automatically in their best interests to do so, especially if the reason is this trivial.
I'd personally start by not using it as an opportunity to make a pointless political statement.

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

I was trying to show where a voice should be used and when it should not as well as how special interest groups have the upper hand. If I was gay, and had a fund raiser where people paid up to 10k a plate, I would have made the person who was up there giving the speech, no matter who it was, to answer the question of a fellow LGBT about something the person who is giving the speeches husband promised and did not deliver. You do not see this as hypocritical? Sorry if you cannot see the correlation.

I compare it to the Jews in WW2 who stood by and said nothing. Same thing.

Heckling and disrupting...she was asking a question. A question about a promise.

edit on 7-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)

She was interrupting the speech - how rude. You got a question? Ask it politely after the speech is over.

As has been mentioned-- I have the feeling that if this person refused a sale of a cake on grounds of race-- let's say it was a black man getting married to a white woman-- many of the members you see here who feel that "they should be able to decline any sale they want" would be up in arms and calling the shop owners bigots.


Yet this is somehow okay?


Doesn't seem right....

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Originally posted by kaylaluv

There are laws against discrimination. People who discriminate need to be stopped.

I find it hypocritical that the bakery owner most likely has not interviewed all his customers to make sure that they follow all his religious beliefs before he sells them anything.

It is not about refusing to sell them a cake, if the gay couple wanted a cake in the window it would have been sold to them, it is about refusing to allow their creative property to be forced into something they deem sin.

It is MAKING the cake (creative property) that they are against, not selling cakes they have already created for public consumption to anyone that wants that product, it is their right as to what they create.

This isn't a hardware store where they buy a good and resell it at profit. They CREATE the good (creative property) and no one has the right to control the creative property of a private business.

God Bless,

They create and make ALL their cakes. You typically don't make a lot of wedding cakes ahead of time to sell to walk-ins. They are much more complicated and require a special order. I believe the anti-discrimination law in Colorado applies to all restaurants, where food and entrees are "created' as well. So, no, I don't think there's a case for the baker here.

I disagree fully but that's why this thread is great.

You don't write things on food dishes in a restuarant, you don't design every dish uniquely, you don't make a dish aesthetically the way a customer demands; you follow pre-established recipies and make the food the way the owner determines, with slight ingredient changes based on customer desire. I do not think a cake baker and a line cook in a restuarant are apple to apples regarding creative property of their products. They can be loosely connected but not genuinely so.

God Bless,

First off thats not going to help anyones "gay rights cause" the more you cram it down our throat the more you will get push back no pun intended....but even if they are ordered to make them a cake...I wouldnt want it...you know its a sneezer cake at the very least...

So. should a Kosher Deli sell non Kosher meats to please everyone...just saying.