Islam: What the West Needs to Know (full documentary)

Originally posted by KyrieEleison

Originally posted by charles1952
The video disagrees, claiming that Islam is the only religion teaching the death or subjugation of non-believers.

Ok, for starters explain the Crusades and the belief structure that went behind it.

Kill them all and let God sort them out, right?

Here's another reference against the whole "Islam is the only religion teaching subjugation" thing, in fact, other religions support the subjugation of those who believe too - this is right from Wikipedia, anyone can look this up, I'm not sure why I have to but w/e.

edit on 6-6-2013 by KyrieEleison because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-6-2013 by KyrieEleison because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-6-2013 by KyrieEleison because: (no reason given)

Yes the crusades were clearly the first thought for me. But I'm not looking to argue my point or any point. I'm just simply stating that most like minded people chose stick with themselves.

We all have the same goal whether we chose to realize it or not. As for any religion taking over the world, well, unless it happens to be the religion that explains both the physical and spiritual in a way that all can understand, then it simply can never take over the world.

Why? Well fr starters because I wouldn't be sold nor would any like minded people therefore they are already doomed to fail. As were the Christians with the crusades or Hitlers attempt of having the Martians, err I mean Aryians...yeah that's it, try to take over the world.

And of course least we forget. Pinky and the Brain.

reply to post by Rosinitiate


I see you are pondering what I am pondering, and it is good!

reply to post by Rosinitiate

We all have the same goal whether we chose to realize it or not. As for any religion taking over the world, well, unless it happens to be the religion that explains both the physical and spiritual in a way that all can understand, then it simply can never take over the world.

Hear, hear!
Thanks for your participation, Ros.....

I think our "common goal" is PEACE - Live and Let Live.

And therefore, I want to pin down the creeps that are causing all this, and make them all "Stop It."

But, for now - my mouse batteries are dying, and it's getting dark (I know, I know: "First World Problems")....
so, I have to go sleep on all this. Again.

Talk to you and everyone else tomorrow.

THANKS TO EVERYONE for PARTICIPATING!

PEACE!
I really do want world peace.

reply to post by wildtimes

I really do want world peace.

Ain't gonna happen hun...

sorry for my pessimism

reply to post by wildtimes

Dear wildtimes,

I'm glad you started the thread, you've asked a vital question. A lot depends, as I said, on whether people want peace.

I can feel your frustration from here, and I can't relieve it. War will have to be left up to our governments, but perhaps we can help to find some peace. There were a couple of people, claiming to be Muslims, that I could have lengthy conversations with. That would be a good start, but they don't seem to be posting anymore.

There are so many unanswered questions to be explored, some of which were raised by your videos. "What is Peace in your mind?" "What is your goal for the world in 100 years?" "Can we all live in such a world?" "What are your values?" "What are you afraid of?"

There will be fear, therefore war, until everybody knows the other side clearly. I am not Muslim, so my view is unbalanced, but I don't detect a desire by Muslims to have honest, meaningful, non-political conversations. But maybe that's how they see us.

If we could have those significant conversations, maybe word could spread to local Mosques and politician's offices. But in those places there would have to be a willingness to listen to us. We need a message of peace based on something solid, not political posturing. Time is growing short, I think.

With respect,
Charles1952

I don't have time to sit through an hour and a half of propaganda. I go straight to the source and read the Quran.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Impressed that you can read Arabic.

reply to post by wildtimes


You know what? I am so sick of all this Islamophobia that is catching like the plague as of late. Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe they might hate us because that is all we've shown them? Violence and hate has been the primary form of "communication" that the West has shown to the ME and then we turn around and feign incredulity when they turn around and start to throw our own language back at us. It's just backwards. Wahabi islamists are the bad apples of the Islamic world, not the in majority in the least. Yet it is the average Muslim citizen who bears the brunt of our iron fragmentation bombs and belt-fed machineguns, not the extremists. Yes, we may have some success in killing the militants themselves, but with such doctrine as "blanket fire" in large crowds where there may only be one gunman, it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to realize that with every bullet fired and every bomb dropped, Islamic hatred of the west is buttressed up and given credibility to those who live under the heels of our boots for their entire lives. If you don't recognize this as fact, than you deserve every bit of backlash that may be coming our way as you are just as complicit as I am in allowing this dehumanization to continue. The first rule of war is that you must dehumanize the perceived enemy in order to make it alot easier to get away with killing them in large numbers. Remember that. I cannot ask you to rearrange your value systems based on one post, but know this: Nothing in this world is black and white. There are myriad shades of gray in every possible situation, including this one. What you need to understand is why exactly there is hatred for the West on a continuous rise in the Muslim world. You also need to realize that they, in the majority, are human beings just like us. Human beings who love when they are loved, weep when they are wronged and bleed red just like the rest of us. And it just so happens that we have been bombing said human beings almost continuously in one nation or another for the last 50 years. To those whom evil is done, shall do evil in return. You would do well to remember that. Remember, also, that there would be no HAMAS, no Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda or Taliban if if weren't for the west using violence as a primary means of communication with the Arabic world for decades.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Well done. You have just elevated yourself above 90% of the population with that post. Too many people have their opinions taken at second hand from others who do the same, all the way up the ladder. The time has long since come and passed to break the cycle. The world needs more people like you. Namaste.

Hate to watch a video that scares the crap out of me and then continue on just to see it discredited because of some opportunists trying to make a buck. The main message I got out of the video was that non believers of the muslum faith are to be eliminated at all costs if they don't conform to their system of beliefs. I grew up hearing we were all Gods children, not Allahs children. Amazing that being an atheist, I am so effected by all of this talk of religion. Part of me really doesn't give a crap, but you know what scares me more than anything??? our government slowly stripping away the rights of hard working Americans who just want to be left the F alone so they can enjoy life and raise their families. Good luck to all trying to figure this mess out.

reply to post by logical7


I have to agree that there are many reasons to paint muslims as radical and perpetuate this global terrorism theme, but the biggest reason is MONEY as you say, but the real MONEY is in defense spending by our respective governments. The people in the military industrial complex are just as bad as the banksters.

reply to post by wildtimes


For starters, I understand everything you are saying. Though I must say, there are different sects of the Muslim faith. Here is some official feedback for you.

Sunni Muslims include 84%–90% of all Muslims. Sunni means “tradition,” and Sunnis regard themselves as those who emphasize following the traditions of Muhammad and of the first two generations of the community of Muslims that followed Muhammad.

A number of movements to reform Islam have originated mainly in the 20th century. Some are limited to one country and others have a broader influence. Most are Sunni movements, such as the Wahhabis, the Muslim Brotherhood, and Jama`at-i-Islami.

Shi`ite Muslims comprise 10%–16% of all Muslims. Shi`ites are the “party of `Ali,” who believe that Muhammad’s son-in-law `Ali was his designated successor (imam) and that the Muslim community should be headed by a designated descendent of Muhammad. Three main subgroups of Shi`ites are Twelvers (Ithna-`Asharis), Seveners (Isma`ilis), and Fivers (Zaydis).

Sufis are Islamic mystics. Sufis go beyond external requirements of the religion to seek a personal experience of God through forms of meditation and spiritual growth. A number of Sufi orders, comparable to Christian monastic orders, exist. Most Sufis are also Sunni Muslims, although some are Shi`ite Muslims. Many conservative Sunni Muslims regard Sufism as a corruption of Islam, although most still regard Sufis as Muslims.

Baha’is and Ahmadiyyas are 19th-century offshoots of Shi`ite and Sunni Islam, respectively. Bahai’s consider themselves the newest of the major world’s religions but recognize that historically they originated from Shi`ite Islam in the same way that Christianity originated from Judaism. Ahmadiyyas do regard themselves as Muslims. Most other Muslims, however, deny that either group is a legitimate form of Islam and regard members of both groups as heretics — people who have corrupted and abandoned Islamic belief and practice.

Druze, Alevis, and `Alawis are small, sectarian groups with unorthodox beliefs and practices that split off from Islam. Druze and Alevis do not regard themselves as Muslims and are not considered Muslims by other Muslims. `Alawis have various non-Islamic practices, but debate continues as to whether they should still be considered Muslims.

Here is the link if you want to see it yourself.
www.dummies.com...

This proves not all Muslims are bad but, Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims are definitely something to be worried about because of their radical views. Mainly those who affiliate with the Muslim Brotherhood, and those who believe in the Madiq or Mecca. These Muslims tend to be extreme but, not all are. Not to mention, those who believe in Sharia Law. This is what those radical Muslims would like to spread around the entire world. Including those who live in Iran. Why? They are mainly Shi'ite Muslims. Hmmm... Scary huh?

Though AGAIN not all Muslims are bad but, it would be a good idea to keep some of this information in the back of your head.

Here is another link. en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by wildtimes


Im just watching this doc now...

Did you notice if you turn to 24:26 Sayyid Qutb has a Hitler moustashe?



Coinsidence?

reply to post by wildtimes


My dislike for them didn't come from the idea of their religion, it came from them flirting with my GF and not respecting that she was in a relationship. It wasn't just one or two, there were quite a few of them that did the same, and kept on insisting and imposing themselves on her. It is the ONE time I would have beaten the crap out of someone for doing so.

Don't really need to watch the documentary because I already know that religion always had one thing in common. Power and control, this goes not only for Islam, but christians, catholics and so on. A religion in my point of view is a cult. Religion is the opposite of spirituality.

The only reason I dont want obama to bomb them up is because my GF is in russia, and russians gave the warning that if syria or Iran is attacked they will intervene. Russians are only protecting their borders. In reality they dont care about syria or Iran except for their own interests.

Star and flag for this thread though

It blows my mind how you can propose Islam and yet have one of the most sexually opened and sensual avatars on Ats. It is hot I must admit. I was turned on. I lusted after you. But I forgive you, woman. In Christianity you can grant that. Not there. Wild horses///// God bless you!!!

Ummmm, guys? Sorry to bother you, but is anyone going to show that the video is significantly, factually wrong?

Uhh, that's kind of the point, isn't it? The thread's sort of about the video, right?

reply to post by wildtimes

Originally posted by wildtimes
Okay......
babloyi, can you please give us source links to back up your understanding?
PLEASE?

You are asking for source links to the the Luton youtube documentary? Just go to youtube and search for Stacey Dooley Luton or something. It really isn't hard to find. Or are you asking for source links showing Walid Shoebat to be a sham? Because I already provided all of those.

Originally posted by wildtimes
What can we do to promote global PEACE?

For one thing, you definitely shouldn't give a voice to the haters (like those in the documentary you linked).

Originally posted by wildtimes
Not even five minutes?
Are you not willing to engage in full research?

If you read on, you'll see I've actually gone through ten minutes. And in those 10 minutes, I saw no facts, no research, no references, just a lot of people claiming to be experts on Islam, trying to tell me what Islam is. Charles claimed that no one is responding to the substance of the video, but I find it funny that even before he had watched it himself, that he said he assumed it has facts and assertions, and no one would respond to them. The entire 10 minutes had 1 line of scripture, and even that was taken out of textual context and portrayed using the most extreme translation they could find (they even admitted beforehand that it included 'parenthetical additions').

If someone told you "The Mein Kampf has some great points! You should read it with an open mind! Go through it and try to counter the points!", if you're feeling REALLY generous, you might read through 10 of the hundreds of pages before giving up and abandoning it. I've already heard everything this hate-clique (and they are, without hyperbole, a hate clique. Buster has posted some details here) has to say about Islam. They just keep rehashing the same points over and over.
It's all islamisevilislamisevilislamisevilislamisevilislamisevilislamisevilislamisevilislamisevilislamisevilislamisevil. I always find that videos are something of an inappropriate medium for scholarly investigation, and nobody will want to sit through an almost 2 hour video of hate-fuel for no reason. If there is some specific FACT or thing of substance that the video speaks about that you wish me to address (as I said, I haven't found any in at least the first 10 minutes), please feel free to post it here.

reply to post by babloyi


I don't see anything in this video that says otherwise...

It basically says islam is evil...

I just learned that Mohammad told his people to lie in order to kill one of his opponents...

Is it true?

I am a Christian, and if you want to curse me, my G-d, burn the Christian bible, etc… Than have at it! It is what some of us call “free will”! It’s what’s within my heart that matters most! It is your free will to do so, and I’m not going to go out and kill you, or make threats to kill you if you decide to do such things!

But hey, let’s be real here! If I want to build a Christian church a couple miles out of Mecca, THAT WON’T BE A PROBLEM. Right? If I want to build a Christian church in a predominately Muslim community, there won’t be any retaliation. Right? IF MOST MUSLUMS ARE SO PEACFULL, than why are these options not a possibility?

I’m sure some are wondering why the bitterness? This is why…

I had a female friend back in the 80’s who got beat up all the time because her Muslim Father found out she was doing normal 16 y/o girly kind of stuff outside of the home. Her Father found out she was putting makeup on when she was in the school bus on the way to school. Her father whipped her with a belt so many times that she had strap marks from her middle back down to her feet! She always kept hush hush about it because she was scared for her life! There were a couple times that he was turned in for the physical and psychological abuse, but the father found other ways to physically abuse her. Ways that didn’t leave marks. At the end of the day, they were able to get her into a foster home. She would have been killed otherwise. They had to move her into a couple different foster homes because the family found out where she was staying.

Open your eye’s people; it is the so called “friendly” Muslims demonstrating hate in the streets when someone sketches out a cartoon of Mohammed. I have NEVER seen Muslims out in the streets rallying together to demonstrate their love for this great country! And for those that say that it is only a small majority that are wackos…? Go ahead and burn the Koran, talk down Muhammad, etc..! I’m sorry people! I’m just not feeling the love! Are there really that many people out there that are so blind to the truth?

reply to post by babloyi

Dear babloyi,

Charles claimed that no one is responding to the substance of the video, but I find it funny that even before he had watched it himself, that he said he assumed it has facts and assertions,

It's a documentary. Of course I would assume there were facts in it. That's what documentaries are. If it matters, I wrote this:

One, I assume that the video presents facts, analysis, and opinion.

You find that funny? It seems a perfectly reasonable statement. I wasn't expecting songs, jokes, and a complicated plot in a documentary.

But as for all the rest, It looks like I'm batting 100%.

Please watch the thread to see what the objections to it are. I mean by that, are people attacking the messenger instead of the message?

Yep, that's exactly what's happening.

And as far as predicting that no one would respond to the facts of the video, looks like I got that one right, too. (At least so far.)

Listen, if the video is wrong, I want to know it. I don't care about all these side issues people are playing with. Somebody show me that their conclusions are wrong because the facts are wrong.

With respect,
Charles1952