Islam: What the West Needs to Know (full documentary)

As far as I know, it's 72 virgins, all doe-eyed and willing.

reply to post by wildtimes


21 virgins is already overkill, 72 would kill you in the afterlife. I think rabbits would die of a heart attack after mating with 10! It just shows the ignorance of the religion. Even if you were not a radical Islamic, I wouldn't want to be associated with such a religion. I would love to see the faces on these suicide bombers when they find out there are no virgins waiting for them at the gates of heaven. Only satin ready to shove 72 pineapples up their butt.

reply to post by logical7


"don't know about Sarin but it seems like a perfect excuse to intervene militarily!"

Surely you don't want more UK, US, French, United nations troops deployed to Syria. We are not collecting passport stamps. How many countries in how many years would that be? LoL

Or do you mean another excuse for our Illuminati/black nobility/banking cartel controlled western governments to invade under the guise of bringing stability/democracy to said nation.

I really hope they don't deploy chemical agents in Syria or anywhere else for that matter!

reply to post by wildtimes

Dear wildtimes,

I just got back to the thread. You guys have been busy, haven't you? (By the way, remind me to put you in for a Purple Heart and a $100 coupon for whichever frustration relief method you prefer.) But it seems to have been a singularly unproductive busyness. It reminds me of discussing Aristotle with a parrot. As fascinating as it is to know that "Aristotle wants a cracker," little further progress obtains.

May I suggest a slightly different avenue to explore? My limited experience here indicates that there are dozens of Muslims and their supporters on ATS. This thread has been exposed to view for well over 24 hours beyond the hour and a half or so needed to watch the video. Kgnow has even summarized four of the main points in the video for those who steadfastly refuse to sully their virginal eyes with the sight of people critical of their religion. He has even opened the discussion on the principle of abrogation but, so far, no one has taken him up on it.

Given all that, what are we told by the reluctance of people to discuss these issues? There have been more deflections than a machine gun fired at Superman. Since the issues aren't being discussed, perhaps we should consider why they are not. Sure, this is a new approach, but it scares me as much as your videos, for I don't see any pleasant possibilities.

1.) This may be similar to the Americans who can only shout USA! USA! in response to any question. This bothers me because it means the mind has been shut off, the will absorbed by the larger group, and the individual is prepared for total, blind, assaults on the other team. Thankfully, for most Americans, this reaction only occurs occasionally and has a short duration. I wonder if, for Muslims, it is continuous.

2.) Is it possible that we're dealing with a lot of "Low Information Voters?" Could they be people who get their theology from the equivalent of Lucille Ball in "I Love Aleisha?" I think you can understand why this is bothering to me. Since the Muslim's entire life, it appears, is regulated by Sharia, they are basically slaves to whoever promulgates and interprets Sharia.

3.) Notice also, the relatively few number of different Muslims addressing this issue. It may be that the others don't know of this thread, but I find that unlikely. Is it possible that those missing decided that the videos are basically correct and this is not the correct battle to fight? That would also help explain the deflections including the "Shoebat is a liar" deflection which I think he successfully rebutted in the link I posted many pages back.

I don't want to derail this thread. Ooops, wait a minute, nobody's allowed it to stay on the rails since the first response. But I mean that I don't want these questions to take the attention off the question you posed at the beginning: "Can someone show me that the facts presented in these videos are false in any material way?"

After 11 pages, I'm beginning to suspect that the answer is "No, we don't like to admit it, but the videos are correct." The idea that the videos are correct is frightening enough, but worse is the idea that people are saying that, when confronted with truth, they will not accept it.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by WeRpeons


"As far as I know, it's 72 virgins, all doe-eyed and willing."

This believe in being rewarded with virgins crap is a doozie!

How do they stay virgins once you have made the beast with two backs so to speak? Does the hymen grow back or what? Are they replaced with others in the morning? Where does Allah get all these virgins from?

Its just not logical, plus 72 virgins would be hard work. LoL (no pun intended) you would want a few experienced ones as well, for some bi action! Can you mix and match?

What about gay suicide bombers, what do they get? LoL

Why is Suicide Bomber heaven just all about sex?

I'm sorry i just find the whole notion Ludacris! Feel free to poke fun at my Christian religious upbringing, i find there version of heaven notoriously flawed also!

reply to post by charles1952

After 11 pages, I'm beginning to suspect that the answer is "No, we don't like to admit it, but the videos are correct." The idea that the videos are correct is frightening enough, but worse is the idea that people are saying that, when confronted with truth, they will not accept it.

It seems to me this was also discussed in the video... which said the religion claims to be peaceful, yet the peaceful "Islamists" blatantly ignore what is actually said within their book.

Apparently according to the video being discussed, the Islamic idea of peace is forcing people to either become muslim or become a second class citizen...

Now logical just said its ok to lie if one is forced into it... but that doesn't explain the actions of this prophet who said specifically... Do what you must to kill my opponent... even if you have to lie...

that bugs me...

I'd also like to hear some answers to Kgnow's quotes...

reply to post by charles1952


The reason the Meccan-era verses of peace and freedom of religion keep getting brought up is because Muslims and Islamic apologists are failing to provide Tafsir on any level regarding the verses they quote. Tafsir clearly illustrates that the war-mongering attitude of the Medina-era verses abrogate/supersede the peace of the earlier Meccan-era verses.




In Islam, to understand the Qur'an according to academic standards, one must study the concept of 'Tafsir', which literally means "interpretation".

"Asbaab'ul nuzul" is a concept of Tafsir which specifically deals with the circumstances and environment in which each specific verse and chapter of the Qur'an was revealed.

"Ilmul hadith" is a concept of Tafsir which coorelates specific Hadith (sayings and actions of Muhammad) as related to specific Qur'an verses.

"Ilmul nashk" is a concept of Tafsir which determines which verses of the Qur'an abrogate or supersede earlier verses.

Not interested in religions that kill inocents. Keep that crap in your dessert countries.

reply to post by Kgnow

Dear Kgnow,

I am really glad you're here. I can't rate you above Akragon, I've known him longer and he is a really super guy, but the two of you make a formidable pair at insisting upon truth.

I know this post is a little giddy, but watching you two in action stirs my dusty old heart. And if you pair up with wildtimes to make an ignorance defying team, I will pass out from joy and excitement.

"Charles, what the heck's wrong with you?" You know what I think it is? I am so glad to see a few people bringing light to this dark swamp of obfuscation and denial, that my relief is proportional to the frustration I was feeling earlier.

Thanks you guys.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by Akragon

It seems to me this was also discussed in the video... which said the religion claims to be peaceful, yet the peaceful "Islamists" blatantly ignore what is actually said within their book.

Funny, ironic, and hypocritical! Because Allah in the Qur'an actually admonishes the Jews and Christians for doing this with their Holy Books:

"Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do." [Al-Quran, Suratul Baqarah, ayah 85 (2:85)]


If a Muslim rejects even one word of the Qur'an, they are considered non-believers. So instead of pondering the ethics of the Qur'an as opposed to their personal opinions, they ignore such points of contention so that they will remain Muslim believers.

I'm sorry i just find the whole notion Ludacris! Feel free to poke fun at my Christian religious upbringing, i find there version of heaven notoriously flawed also!

reply to post by andy06shake


I grew up catholic and find a lot of their teachings off the wall.

reply to post by Kgnow


Well im glad someone knows the book... im completely ignorant of its contents...

Is that passage in context with the rest of the chapter?

I tend to prey on contradiction.... and I've seen a lot of it... at least from the video.

I'd hate to say that all I know of islam comes from a video... but its pretty much true.

I've been trying to get an answer from Logical about Jesus.... that being, "How can a book from 600 years after his death be more accurate then books from within 100 years of his life"?

Somehow I doubt i'll get an answer in any case...

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I don't have time to sit through an hour and a half of propaganda. I go straight to the source and read the Quran.

thats what i have been trying to say, but i would suggest reading an exegesis too, written by scholars to get the background of the verses and to understand things in context.
A Site that I refer to for detailed explanation of Qur'an

Uh, No. Then you're relying on someone else's interpretation, and that interpretation may be false. That's how you end up getting indoctrinated or brainwashed.

reply to post by WeRpeons


Im the other way, raised Protestant. Sunday school and all. LoL

Organised religion is the root of all evil, should not matter what ever deity one prays to as long as they do it quietly.

People don't need a Priest, Rabbi, Maulana or minister to commune with their creator. They are quite capable all on their own in my opinion.

It's when they start getting together the fighting begins! Funny that, eh?

reply to post by Akragon

Is that passage in context with the rest of the chapter?

The chapter that verse is contained in is actually the longest chapter in the Qur'an, consisting of 286 verses. Additionally, the Qur'an was not revealed in the chronological order that we see the physical book structured. The Qur'an is a huge compilation of verses that were revealed in separate parts over a 23 year span.

So is the passage in context with the rest of the chapter? To be honest, every single verse is out of context. The Qur'an could be talking about the creation of existence in one verse, and then directly afterwards start talking about Jews, or marriage laws, or hell fire.

This is another reason Islam is difficult to fully understand for new converts, younger Muslims, and Muslims who have not dedicated countless months and years learning all of the various and different domains of Qur'anic study.

reply to post by xXxinfidelxXx


I can certainly understand why they hate the west, and I agree with what you said. However, if you believe that Islam is a beautiful and loving religion, how do you justify their treatment of women as second class citizens, killing their own daughters in the name of honor, stoning, maiming, beheading and killing in the name of their God? The Sunnis and Shiites have been fighting throughout most of their history. Muslims have always killed Christians, and it says in the Koran to kill the infidels! To force women to sweat wearing burqa's and to cover their faces while the men walk around enjoying the sunshine. They might as well put their women on a leash!

There's nothing you can say to justify that religion. It's simply not a tolerant nor respectful or loving religion.

reply to post by charles1952


So I don't know what worse the fact that I have been following this thread, or the fact I don't even know what the hell anyones position on this is anyway....nor do I really care.

Personally to me, indentifying whether or not Islam as a religion teaches hate is pointless, irrelevant and hardly worth obsessing about. This faith has been taught and followed and will continue to do so regardless of your views. Furthermore, those who are of this religion will continue either loving or hating one another as they always have. You know what? So will Christians and Jews. You know why? USA USA USA! Get Err Done!

There will always be followers of these religions as long as people search for their truth. Sadly, the last place you will find the truth is through any of those books, from any of those faiths. So trying to determine if Islam has more hate than the others is simply silly and trivial. And discovering it is as the OP is clearly hoping to do, almost doing everything she can to convince herself this is the truth while simultaneously trying to convince her readers she's just confused and wants the truth.

I see nothing here but hate in this thread and it ain't coming from Islam.

I'm not a Muslim and will never be so we can rule out them ruling the world, sure as hell ain't a Christian (grew up babtist) nor am I a Jew. I am simply a man who choses to love (as best I can) both my fellow man, regardless of nation, race or creed and love for the divine cosmic.

Stop the hate and stop judging people and their faith. Don't be ignorant....you all know full well there are plenty of devout Muslims who don't hate just as there are devout Christians who do. So drop the I just want the truth to shine for the betterment of the world bull#. Get off your high horses and self righteous attitudes.



Oh and for those who need the above translated:

USA USA USA!

I already know what Islam is about; I've read quite a bit of the Quran. And all I gotta say is, I'm not surprised Muslims act the way they do, and why EVERY FU**CKING Islamic country wallows in inhuman, stoneage depravity. Also, actions speak louder than words, so any attempt at sugarcoating Islam will fall deaf on the ears of those who OBSERVE actions. So, you can # off with your "peaceful," hippie rendition of Islam, when it's nothing more than an attempt to save face at this point...

reply to post by Kromlech


Every islamic nation wallows in inhuman cruelty from evil dictators propped up by US and western power so long as the west gets what they want.

The islamic nations that had done well for themselves by not being puppets to the west were/are subsequently demolished back to the stone age courtesy of USA bombs.

Or kept in poverty through economic sanctions with b.s. excuses that kill millions of children,

Originally posted by Rosinitiate
reply to post by Kromlech

 

Every islamic nation wallows in inhuman cruelty from evil dictators propped up by US and western power so long as the west gets what they want.

The islamic nations that had done well for themselves by not being puppets to the west were/are subsequently demolished back to the stone age courtesy of USA bombs.

LOLOL, Islam and its inhuman filth existed LONNNGGGGGGGG before the "West." What next will you try and "excuse" Islam's blatant EVIL on?

reply to post by Kromlech


And were a stroooooooooooooong and mighty empire. And has nothing to do with all Muslims hating people. But I'm sure you get paid well for it.