Location of the Great Apple Tree within Edin

reply to post by windword


I'm not talking about.... if a donkey talked, or a fish swallowed a man... I'm talking about Kings, and wars, and cities, and tribes, buildings, the building of buildings, the movement of this place to that, and who was leadership of the time.. not just the israelites, but Palestine, Egypt, Philistines, Babylonia, etc etc etc. I'm not talking about talking snakes. I'm talking about, just as Egypt wrote down it's history (and Sumeria, and Babylon, and whoever) along with it's myths combined, and yet we are able to separate the facts from the parts that are myth..with no problem, yet... people can't do the same with the writings of the Israelites? why? If we can figure out that Yes, in fact, this Pharaoh did exist, even though he claims he was born from Ra... why can we not then acknowledge, that maybe, just maybe there was a tribe leader named Abraham, or Moses (given the fact that so so so many Pharaohs have the name "Moses" within their very names: Kamose, Ahmose, Thutmoses, I,II, III and IV, along with some of their daughters holding the name, heck, even Ramasses is an etymology of Masses=Moses, and whats even more frustrating is that anyone with any kind of Egyptian research under their belt, from Hobby, to actual Archaeology, knows, that the Egyptians were notorious for lying when it came to Leaders they didn't like, they just wiped them from history, wars they lost, they simply wrote the opposite, etc etc so, yes.... they would have hid as much as possible their being any info of that kind in their histories) King David, King Solomon. Simply because it's the bible? Simply because in a completely separate book that has nothing to do with old Testament literature, theres a man who people believe in? So what? 4000+ years ago... the egyptians believed in Gods to, does that mean their writings of their history (which did incorporate their Gods along with the stories) was any less?

And great, lets then move on to the New Testament. Years ago, there was a man, who had 12 followers, he convinced them that when Haley's comet came to pass over, the Earth, the end would come and they all commited mass suicide. Do you remember his name right off the top of your head? without looking it up? can you remember the name of the group? now.. I mean, really. without looking it up first. I'm sure there are many many who do know his name and group right off the bat...but almost the whole entire world? My point? ..... You had a man who only preached for 3 years.... whose own family believed he was crazy, in an extremely small town during a time when ROME ruled. He was literally... a nobody. His family was no body. He gathered up 12 men, and had them follow him around to learn from him as he went about preaching (which by the way was actually not so strange, many Rabbi's did the same for their teachings to be carried on) He was then killed.... for no reason. Literally for no reason. I mean... Caiaphus seemed actually worried that he could take over his position.. really? I don't think so.. worried about this man from Nazareth while Rome was in rule? UM.. no. Was Caesar worried he could become King? Um.. no.. again.. Roman rule.. many people behind that current Caesar. This man, who preached for 3 years, and was considered a nobody and he was killed... for what? You then have his 12 followers who run and hide for weeks..because they believe they will be sought out and killed as well for following him.. why? because they never ever thought about the end result. See... usually, the way Myth works is that when the writer begins to write his story, he already knows how it's going to end. It's myth, it's a made up story. So, their hero do majestical things and they don't die.... and if they do die..the story is written to where the writer makes it clear that he planned it that way, for the hero to die. But..when we read the stories of the apostles... we see something very significant... they run. Why? because no one planned in their writing for Jesus to die.. .. they then write about how the women set out to prepare his burial.. why? because they believed he was dead. Myths don't work that way. So then 3 weeks later, the apostles go into the middle of town and begin proclaiming Jesus. And Everyone of them die for it. Oh, not right away of course, but as time goes by, Christians are sought out and killed, till each one has died horrific deaths. For a man.. who didn't exist? who was never here? and then.... his name and teachings and doings survive 2000+ years? from only 12 men? who died? ... That to me just doesn't add up.

pity there's no atsers in/around northern iran? that can go check the site out and see what's there now

esp before it gets bombed up considerin how nWo likes destroying ancient rival biblical cities (ie Ur in Iraq, Damascus in Syria, etc)

from what I remember readin elsewhere, annunaki leader Anu placed Enlil in charge of E-DIN,

while assigning Enki to 'AB' (insemination?!) which some say is in... Southern Africa which is peculiarly vague considering how huge africa is!

The Adam and Eve story is about the first sentient homo sapiens. Even if you insist it's about homo sapiens with full behavioral modernity, it would put the story roughly at about 50,000 years ago. Include our close relatives and it goes back a couple of hundred thousands years back... Looking for the tree, a snake, the apples and the garden is pointless especially since it's clearly an allegory and arguably a double one. Literal in interpretation of this story is childish, grow up.

originally posted by: Sonny2
Searching for 10000 years old tree, good luck.

As hopecast said: "The Bible is a metaphor..." There was no tree and no apple.

Pretty sure I read there are no living plants past 6,000 years ago that we know of.

The presumption could be made a world wide flood ended all floral life at that time.

I don’t know much of anything on this subject, but love reading about it. Great job OP...

From my perspective, it sounds sexual/reproductive in nature. His, err... “trunk”, if you will, being the “tree” which produced “good seed” giving her the very best “apples” (viable offspring?). Again, just my two cents, but that’s how it read to me.

In the Eden story, the tree first becomes an apple tree in a Latin translation.
The Hebrew version just called it a fruit tree.
In fact, lots of people theorize it was a pomegranate.

Harte

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Terrific post about an extremely interesting topic.

Bravo!

Pergamum: The Seat of Satan. In a two-part series, Gordon Robertson takes an in-depth look at the ancient Greco-Roman city Pergamum called “the dwelling place of Satan” from the book of Revelation...

Pergamon
City in Turkey
Pergamon, Pergamos or Pergamum, was a rich and powerful ancient Greek city in Aeolis. It is located 26 kilometres from the modern coastline of the Aegean Sea on a promontory on the north side of the river Caicus and northwest of the modern city of Bergama, Turkey.


Pergamon was an ancient city located in the Anatolia region, approximately 25 kilometres from the Aegean Sea in present-day Bergama, Izmir Province of Turkey. The city had great strategic value, since it overlooked the Caicus River Valley (modern name Bakırçay) which provided access from Pergamon to the Aegean coast. Pergamon reached the height of its influence during the Hellenistic period, becoming the capital of the Attalid kings.

~BING search~

When Eden lost the people Adam & Eve, the city-of-Satan, organically developed as Pergamon Turkey....Located directly East of the Mythic Garden of Eden (in the abundant Valley~~later flooded with water~)

originally posted by: jjkenobi

originally posted by: Sonny2
Searching for 10000 years old tree, good luck.

As hopecast said: "The Bible is a metaphor..." There was no tree and no apple.

Pretty sure I read there are no living plants past 6,000 years ago that we know of.

The presumption could be made a world wide flood ended all floral life at that time.

Currently there are chronologies dating as far back as 11,000 using Dendrochronology


www.pbs.org...

originally posted by: Harte
In the Eden story, the tree first becomes an apple tree in a Latin translation.
The Hebrew version just called it a fruit tree.
In fact, lots of people theorize it was a pomegranate.

Harte

Why not a persimmon? lol

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: Harte
In the Eden story, the tree first becomes an apple tree in a Latin translation.
The Hebrew version just called it a fruit tree.
In fact, lots of people theorize it was a pomegranate.

Harte

Why not a persimmon? lol

Since I don't care for either, that would be fine by me.

Harte

you know when i hear that people say that the bible or hebrews and so forth say that it was stole from from the Sumerian lore /myths, i just laugh, they don't seem to consider that Abram/ Abraham was a Sumerian from Ur of the Chaldees and that Ur was in the southern part of Sumer. they had many Gods, and that some of these could or probably would have the same accounts credited to them so it makes sense that some of these accounts,stories, myths, would have traveled with him and the people that went with him.

a reply to: Hanslune

1. Pando Age: ~80,000 years Species: Quaking Aspen (Populus tremuloides) Location: Fishlake National Forest, Utah, USA Still Alive: Yes

10 Oldest Trees in the World

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Hanslune

1. Pando Age: ~80,000 years Species: Quaking Aspen (Populus tremuloides) Location: Fishlake National Forest, Utah, USA Still Alive: Yes

10 Oldest Trees in the World

Howdy

Yes I'm well aware of those trees and that age is an estimate - and is probably close to being correct - but 11,000 has solid evidence. Just a difference between maybe and known.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
you know when i hear that people say that the bible or hebrews and so forth say that it was stole from from the Sumerian lore /myths, i just laugh, they don't seem to consider that Abram/ Abraham was a Sumerian from Ur of the Chaldees and that Ur was in the southern part of Sumer. they had many Gods, and that some of these could or probably would have the same accounts credited to them so it makes sense that some of these accounts,stories, myths, would have traveled with him and the people that went with him.

It makes some sense, except for the fact that the Sumerian stories differ from the Babylonian, and the Chaldeans weren't themselves Babylonian (at that time.)

But the Hebrew Bible wasn't really "stolen." Some of the stories might have been, but not the large majority. And that most likely happened during the Babylonian Captivity. IIRC, there wasn't even a Moses story before that, and the slaves that were Rabbis were given jobs in the Babylonian libraries (because they could read.)

Harte

a reply to: Harte

It makes some sense, except for the fact that the Sumerian stories differ from the Babylonian, and the Chaldean's weren't themselves Babylonian (at that time.)

no where did i mention the Babylonians. that said, let's take the stories gilgamesh. there have been at least 5 Sumerian versions found before the Babylonian version. These are thought to be distinct stories instead of one long epic as the in the oldest partly reconstructed Babylonian or Akkadian reconstructed versions.

but you correct in that the Chaldeans weren't native to Mesopotamia like the Sumerians, Akkadian, Assyrians, or Babylonians.
i sometimes get my peoples and area's mixed up especially when so many have had control of the area. they were West Semitic people.

but my point being that , people will assimilate parts of one culture as their own, whether it was the new people taking the old or the old taking the new ones.

also there is no evidence that Chaldeans were even in Mesopotamia during the time of Abraham. all the evidence shows that they came 800 to 900 years after he lived. it is summarized as you stated that the the hebrew bible was written during the Chaldean dynasty that was ruling Babylonia at that time, and Ur of the Chaldeans is used in english as his place origin instead of Ur Kaśdim.

plus some stories say that abraham was born during rule of Nimrod of Shinar ( some say a mix of two kings Sargon and Naram-Sin), and his father a was the high preist who worshiped Marduk and sold idols. so it safe to say he was a Sumerian.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

damn i did again i should have said Akkadian instead of Sumerian.

also another story that comes to mind is the story in the jewish bible that nimrod had abraham thrown in the fiery furnance, sound like another story doesn't it. the one in Daniel.

also nimrod as i said is thought to be by some a mix of Sargon and his grandson who are Akkadian . others say nimrod was the leader/founder of the Babylonian cities of Babel, Erech, Akkad and Calneh in the land of Shinar.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Harte

It makes some sense, except for the fact that the Sumerian stories differ from the Babylonian, and the Chaldean's weren't themselves Babylonian (at that time.)

no where did i mention the Babylonians. that said, let's take the stories gilgamesh. there have been at least 5 Sumerian versions found before the Babylonian version.

I believe that's inaccurate. The earliest record of the story dates to the Old Babylonian Period, after the fall of both Sumer and Akkad.
Not saying it wasn't a Sumerian story too though.
Also, you may not have mentioned Baylonia, but note that the scripture says "Ur of the Chaldeans," not Ur of the Sumerians or Babylonians.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlieplus some stories say that abraham was born during rule of Nimrod of Shinar ( some say a mix of two kings Sargon and Naram-Sin), and his father a was the high preist who worshiped Marduk and sold idols. so it safe to say he was a Sumerian.

Both kings you mention post-date Sumer by a century and more.
Also, Marduk only rose to prominence during the Babylonian Period, a fact the scribes at the time were very unlikely to know.

Harte

ETA: sorry, just read your second post above.
H

a reply to: Harte

I believe that's inaccurate. The earliest record of the story dates to the Old Babylonian Period, after the fall of both Sumer and Akkad. Text

you would be wrong,

The earliest Sumerian versions of “The Epic of Gilgamesh” date from as early as the Third Dynasty of Ur (2150 – 2000 BCE), and are written in Sumerian cuneiform script, one of the earliest known forms of written expression. It relates ancient folklore, tales and myths and it is believed that there were many different smaller stories and myths that over time grew together into one complete work. The earliest Akkadian versions (Akkadian is a later, unrelated, Mesopotamian language, which also used the cuneiform writing system) are dated to the early 2nd millennium.

Epic of Gilgamesh – Epic Poem Summary – Other Ancient Civilizations – Classical Literature (Epic poem, anonymous, Sumerian/Mesopotamian/Akkadian, c. 20th – 10th Century BCE, about 1,950 lines)

first the Sumerians ruled, second the Akkadians, then so on. here is a good short history of the area. written by a professor from Oxford. first answer.
Are Babylonians, Sumerians and Mesopotamians the same?

now on to Murduk and the two kings.
tradition identifies Marduk as Enki/Ea's son,which ties him to him with the pantheon of Eridu.
so we all know that just about all gods back then had their own temple, even minor gods. it would be fair to say that Terah( Abrahans Father) could have been a priest. i can't find it now but IIRC there were some 3000 Sumerian gods.


now on the 2 kings.

if you go back and read my post. i said twice that nimrod was thought to be a combination of Sargon and his grandson. also it is also known that before the Akkadian conquest of Sumer, that both peoples lived peacefully in the area, and that the Akkadians mirrored many Sumerian traditions and beliefs.

Eridu (present day Abu Shahrein, Iraq) was considered the first city in the world by the ancient Sumerians and is among the most ancient of the ruins from Mesopotamia. Founded in circa 5400 BCE, Eridu was thought to have been created by the gods and was home to the great god Enki (also known as Ea by the Akkadians) who would develop from a local god of fresh water into the god of wisdom and magic (among other attributes) and stand with other deities such as Anu, Enlil, and Inanna as the most important in the Mesopotamian Pantheon.
Eridu

again as i said my point of my very first post to you was that,
my words,

but my point being that , people will assimilate parts of one culture as their own, whether it was the new people taking the old or the old taking the new ones.

doesn't matter what the scribes knew or didn't know actual history of the empires. it was the oral history that was passed down that they wrote about using the terms and langues that was in use.



ETA: here is a link for the 3000 gods.

The Sumerians lived in southern Babylonia from 4000 to 3000 BC and had strong spiritual beliefs. Their history is shrouded in mystery. We know that they were pantheistic and their gods were the personification of the elements and natural forces. The Sumerians believed that first there was the primeval sea that gave rise to a united heaven and earth. Between heaven and earth came the air, whose main characteristic was expansion. The air produced the moon, then the moon produced the sun. Once heaven and earth had been separated, plants, animals, and human life became possible. There were more than 3,000 Sumerian gods and goddesses, and the four most well-known gods in the Sumerian religion were An, Ki, Enlil and Enki.
Top 10 Sumerian Gods and Goddesses

edit on 15-10-2019 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

oh just one more thing, some want to say that murduk was the son of Utu. some say there is no evidence of that.

Although the spelling of Marduk's name (see below) appears to affiliate him with the sun god Utu/Šamaš, there is no evidence that he was ever considered to be the sun god's son (Sommerfeld 1982: 11). On the contrary, tradition identifies Marduk as Enki/Ea's son, clearly affiliating him with the pantheon of Eridu.
Marduk (god)

edit on 15-10-2019 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-10-2019 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

oh just one more thing and i'll stop, Murduk is thought by some to be the son of Utu. Other say there is no evidence for that.

Although the spelling of Marduk's name (see below) appears to affiliate him with the sun god Utu/Šamaš, there is no evidence that he was ever considered to be the sun god's son (Sommerfeld 1982: 11). On the contrary, tradition identifies Marduk as Enki/Ea's son, clearly affiliating him with the pantheon of Eridu.
Murduk (god)