Crop Circles are AMAZING...man-made or NOT !!

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by soulpowertothendegree

Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by soulpowertothendegree
reply to post by flyswatter

 

So enlighten us as to your theory...at least he gave one.

My theory as to what makes crop circles?

Humans, until someone can show me something other than humans being responsible.

Show me proof that they were made by humans.

There's lots of proof that lots of crop circles were made by humans. If you'd been paying attention to my previous post, nobody can say with authority that all of them were created by humans, but on that same note, nobody can say with authority that any of them were created by aliens. Anyone claiming to have concrete proof of either of those is clearly out of touch with reality.

If they were not made by humans then who/what do you propose as an alternative to alien. Maybe the field mice are having a laugh at us and are conspiring to show their superiority at displaying geometry in a field.

My personal feeling is that they're all done by humans, but I cant rightfully say that I have proof that every single one is. I cant expect someone else to provide proof when I am not able to supply the same, so I wont make claims that I cannot verify.

Originally posted by peashooter
reply to post by Phage

 

Why are the stalks bent with extreme pressure and heat? Iron molecules? Dehydrated water table under the fields, as well as abnormal crop growth the following year?

I understand that many can be man made with lots of effort, but what equipment will produce the results listed above?

The idea of HAARP sounds reasonable, but I don't see how people can use laser levels to zap an entire field changing the crystalline structure of the plants.

edit on 6-6-2013 by peashooter because: (no reason given)

HAARP isnt a reasonable theory at all, because HAARP is not even remotely capable of doing anything like this. Please, please, please ... read about HAARP. Gain an understanding of the science behind what it does and how it operates and you will see just how ridiculous HAARP-circles would be.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by peashooter

 

I quoted from another site earlier

Yes, you did. Have you read Levengood's papers? No? Here they are. I suggest you do read them instead of relying on what someone else says they say.
www.bltresearch.com...
www.bltresearch.com...

You should know that those papers were not peer reviewed before publication. But they were afterwards. I posted this link before. Did you read it?

The total evidence discussed in this critical review demonstrates nothing but a mere difference in the stem elongation between the flattened plants lying inside the circles and those standing outside it, as we should expect when whatever kind of mechanical force flattens the plants, rope and wood plank included

www.scientificexploration.org...

Levengood displayed bias in the selection of his samples, used no double blind system, and cherry picked data to fit his hypothesis. And still, somehow his papers as used as "scientific" analysis of crop circles.

edit on 6/6/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

This is from your links:

As data accumulate from the laboratory investigation of crop formation plants sampled at quite diverse geographic locations, it becomes apparent that the concept of organized ion plasmas as the guiding energetic force behind crop formations has a strong empirical foundation.

and

Although the source of the transient heating remains unknown, one may obtain some idea of its magnitude by comparing the energy to produce cell wall pit expansion with the normal heat energy input under field conditions.

Based on the physical, chemical and meteoritic nature of this iron oxide coating, the conclusion was reached (Levengood and Burke 1995) that clouds of meteoritic material from the August 1993 Perseid meteor showers had inter acted with a precrop formation, plasma complex.

To confirm, clouds of meteoritic material interacted with a crop circle to produce these designs?
I can accept that theory, it is better than "all crop circles are made by people". Your links contradict your comment from earlier.

reply to post by peashooter

Your links contradict your comment from earlier.

Perhaps you should try to understand what I wrote.

I provided you Levengoods papers. Based on biased data collection and interpretation. He uses that circular logic I mentioned to come to his conclusions about crop circles.

The third link is a criticism of his methods and claims. A peer review of work which was not peer reviewed before publication.

If you want to discuss the material, please read it first.

Originally posted by Sankari
Crop circles are awesome. A testament to the creativity of human beings.

You've got some great examples there, OP. Thanks for sharing!

I love how some have an opinion..... an opinion, proclaim it, and then act as though it were actual verafiable Proof beyond question.

But then I seldom come here now, and virtually never post...... but hay.... if you say so...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by peashooter

 

Your links contradict your comment from earlier.

Perhaps you should try to understand what I wrote.

I provided you Levengoods papers. Based on biased data collection and interpretation. He uses that circular logic I mentioned to come to his conclusions about crop circles.

The third link is a criticism of his methods and claims. A peer review of work which was not peer reviewed before publication.

If you want to discuss the material, please read it first.

edit on 6/6/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

According to your logic, because his method is biased ALL crop circles are man-made? He faked the 250 crop circle visits/samples? Even if he is biased in choosing samples, how did those specific crop circles form?

Please confirm this. I didn't know reading a paper "debunking" another biased paper would result in knowledge of the origins of all crop circles.

reply to post by R0CR13


Yep, plank and rope right?

reply to post by peashooter


What is being pointed out is that he force fitted data to conform to a presupposed conclusion. I know you aren't talking to me, but I figured I would answer anyways. I mean, this isn't hard to figure out. Phage is (succesfully) addressing the bent node argument.

Personally I try and seek alternate forms of provenance of "genuine" circles.

The Arecibo Reply glyph is the best one to date, IMO.

reply to post by peashooter

Even if he is biased in choosing samples, how did those specific crop circles form?

Good question. Read the papers to find out.

I didn't know reading a paper "debunking" another biased paper would result in knowledge of the origins of all crop circles.

You are quoting (directly now, indirectly previously) Levengood's papers. I am pointing out that doing so does not really support your case because his methods, claims about evidence, and interpretation of that evidence do not stand up to close examination of their scientific value.

IMHO, if ever there was a subject where Occam's Razor applies aptly, it's crop circles. The very fact that your choices are 1) people are creating them 2) aliens are sending us messages in the crops and 3) some complex, not-understood natural process is creating them is the first clue. And the fact that it's been shown that people *can* create complex crop circles, overnight, should be the second clue, e.g.:



I agree they do look pretty cool. It's amazing what humans can do if they put their mind to it.

Humans are capable of making astounding pieces of art, but I have difficulty accepting all crop circles are man made over night. It seems absurd that people write them all off as some kids pranks. They would have to be a team of extraordinarily skilled engineers with artistic ability almost unmatched. The amount of coordination would be amazing, but one of mu biggest questions is if they are man man why have no photos of imperfect crop circles appeared, or perhaps a crop circle that couldn't be finished in a single night. Idk. The photos above are supernatural, at least to my understanding of what humans are capable in a single nights work.

reply to post by Phage


Why is it you hang on to one report which points out bias when he has over 50 peer-reviewed papers?

Dr. W. C. Levengood is a respected biophysicist. Over the course of his multi-disciplinary career he has conducted investigations into such areas as the effects of solar and cosmic rays on the reproduction of living organisms, and the relationship between ion transport and vigour selection in seeds. In addition to his worldwide reputation he holds six patents and has written fifty peer-reviewed papers.


Michael Chorost reached similar conclusions in his published report for Project Argus: the phenomenon induces radiation anomalies, heats plants rapidly and briefly through a rapid pulse of unknown energy, sometimes scorching them; it swells their cell wall pits and interacts with the development of the seeds, and leaves radioactive traces in the soil.

One experiment carried out in June 1995 put Levengood's research to the test. Without knowledge of its creators, Levengood's team took home samples from a crop circle which had been deliberately man made. Yet despite the usual tests, no discrepancies were found between the formation' samples and the controls.

www.cropcirclesecrets.org...

From another site:

Crop circles are usually explained as the handiwork of creative pranksters. `Not true,' says Dr. Eltjo H. Haselhoff, Ph.D., former employee of Los Alamos National Laboratories. `The complexity of the crop circle phenomenon is tremendously underestimated, because its true nature is unknown to the general public.' `Obviously, there are people trying to imitate the real thing, but the suggestion that all of these crop formations are made by men with simple flattening tools is by far insufficient to explain the well-documented observations, like unambiguous and consistent biophysical anomalies in the flattened plants, inside the circles, all of which have been published in peer-reviewed scientific literature,' according to Dr. Haselhoff.

www.greatdreams.com...

But historian Greg Jefferys, who has a degree in archaeology, says he has new evidence that not all crop circles have a human origin.
After spending more than 300 hours examining aerial photographs from Google Earth’s new 1945 overlay, Jefferys concludes that a number of crop circles has been appearing consistently each summer for at least 33 years before Chorley and Bower began their work.

The new findings, together with reports of crop circles in English countryside dating back as far back as 300 years, mean that the phenomenon is still unexplained and may represent a new field of science, Jefferys argued to the Huffington Post.

newsfeed.time.com...

Not trying to disrespect your opinion, you're entitled to it, but these 3 are just found with a quick search. Respected biophysicist with 50 peer reviewed papers, PhD, and an archaeologist who spend years on the topic. If they aren't sure how can you be so sure the origin of each crop circle? That is the point I'm trying to get across.

reply to post by AlexJohnson


Plenty of the circles have been seen unfinished. One that comes to mind was a massive formation a couple years ago that took three nights to create. It looked like a pinwheel with "alien text" in it. Maybe someone will remember this one and embed some photos. It was man made and staggeringly beautiful.

reply to post by AlexJohnson

why have no photos of imperfect crop circles appeared,

How closely have you looked? There are examples of complete botch jobs but even the "real" ones have mistakes.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Or now do we have to get subjective about the severity of the mistakes the same way we are subjective about which are "real" and which are "fake".

The are all real and they are all made by people. But you are correct, those people are talented. With their talent and a relatively small crew, it's really not that much of a problem.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by peashooter

Why is it you hang on to one report which points out bias when he has over 50 peer-reviewed papers?

Because those are the reports which you are quoting from. BTW, Levengood does not have a PhD. There shouldn't be a Dr in front of his name.

Haselhoff does have a PhD and his work is also covered in the link I provided.

Both claim the BOL (ball of light) hypothesis.

reply to post by JayinAR

Yes. I posted a link in my first post in this thread.
Armap posted these images.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/a4df20c8ac27e56c.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/d3780a9338f96408.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/244751c3fe53701e.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Phage


That's the one. Thanks.

As can be seen, this glyph took a few days to complete. An awesome piece of art though.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by AlexJohnson

 

why have no photos of imperfect crop circles appeared,

How closely have you looked? There are examples of complete botch jobs but even the "real" ones have mistakes.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Or now do we have to get subjective about the severity of the mistakes the same way we are subjective about which are "real" and which are "fake".

The are all real and they are all made by people. But you are correct, those people are talented. With their talent and a relatively small crew, it's really not that much of a problem.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

But wait! You discredit their work because it wasn't peer-reviewed? (according to one paper)
I showed you several links where both have published papers on crop circles.

What is your response to the points brought up? Clearly the bent stalks/heat is present, it is not made up as many respected professionals are doing research.

"They are all real and made by people, those people are talented"
This isn't enough of an argument to explain for the points that I brought up, including the fact that they have appeared more than 300 years ago.

Here's an electrical engineer talking about his work on crop circles, he spoke with the local farmers and they have stated that the crop circles date back decades, their parents have witnessed the appearance of the circles as well.

goldenageofgaia.com...

For instance, since 1989 Colin has been consistently hounded, intimidated and often threatened by British and US intelligence agencies. So much so that, at one point, he was offered an undisclosed sum of money by the CIA, a `Swiss bank account’ that would have set him up for life. In return he was to denounce publicly the crop circle phenomenon as a hoax.

.

reply to post by peashooter



Do you think they get a lot of cuts and blisters from all that weaving ??


Thats gotta hurt ...

.

reply to post by peashooter


I would like to see a time lapse photograph of one growing back. If only I could locate a new one on google maps.....