Islamic Cleric Decrees Rape is OK during Syrian War

reply to post by logical7

Whatever the agenda of this thread, what must be kept in mind that every one claiming to be a muslim does not represent islam.

Forgive me, I do not want to pick a fight.

Just who does he represent? Buddhists? Christian Scientists? Wiccans? Baptists? Hindus?

But this guy is an Imam. Again we have a poster saying that what this guy says means nothing.

Let's say that some bishop in the Catholic Church says that abortion is wrong. Do you realize how silly it would be for posters to come to a thread saying that he does not represent the church in any capacity?

reply to post by butcherguy


geee BG you keep forgetting the IMAM is on the NATO payroll
like the jewish owned PR firm that gave us the babies ripped from incubators by Iraqis in Quwaior the alCIADUH rapists in Libya

you been played my friend

eta
oh and just ask any protestant evengelical,
they'll tell you:
Catholics aren't christians


(Even though both protestants and catholics took part in Residential schools where native children were forced from their families and all too often were sexually assaulted and often killed, and all this was paid for by tax dollars)

reply to post by HomerinNC


I keep wondering that, and have asked them (the Muslims on here) myself, too! I get no answer.

What Wrabbit says is a good point - maybe the moderates are intimidated by the Jihadists, too...
so they dare not speak up. All I keep getting is "that's not really Islam" - but no "plan" is offered to stop it.

Now we have logical7 here (one of those with whom I've had lengthy conversations) saying "it's what's keeping the US from martial law". WTH? Excuses, excuses. Justifications for doing nothing. So you think the Jihadists are "on the side of the American people" and willingly playing the buffer zone - going to their deaths and destroying their own people? Ridiculous.

Certainly nothing to laugh about.

Again - what would be YOUR PLAN to "educate" the "ignorant Muslims" and stop the bloodshed, please, logical7?
Apparently your "real" leaders don't have much to say. In my mind (because if they are condemning it, they're doing it "off the air") they aren't doing anything about it except inciting more violence.

If Western "intervention" (covert OR overt) isn't working (which it isn't) - and everyone trying to get the tribes to have "peace talks" just quit bothering and went home....
WHAT would happen then? I'm not defending the Western forces being there - I think they SHOULD be withdrawn, along with ALL "training forces", drones, embassies and peacekeepers, and let them all do whatever. Putting our own people in danger - even citizen soldiers as well as civilians - for the barbaric insanity going on over there is STUPID as well as USELESS and WASTEFUL.

Obviously.

We've had 10 years of "proof" of that now - Israel and Palestine are getting nowhere - and Iran and Afghanistan haven't straightened out their social issues one bit. I swear it's like when a bunch of misbehaving brats next door are having a backyard fight with loud, obnoxious music, shouting, obscenities and insults - and the "neighbor lady" comes over to tell them to knock it off since they're disturbing the established peace and disrupting the whole block -

but she's not their race and doesn't share their ghetto culture, so they ignore her and just carry on - then they complain to their parents, who tell the neighbors to "stay away from my kids!" and tells the kids "Stay away from those people, they will hurt you!" Even though those same neighbors have helped the home-owners and even played with those kids.

I understand that people don't WANT values or behavioral codes imposed upon them...and I respect that - so now, the neighbors are enemies. Hostile, rude, enemies. And I just try to avoid them and mind my own business.

That is what happened very recently in my very own backyard. And those "new" neighbors are turning THIS neighborhood into a noisy ghetto rather than enjoying the change of scenery and atmosphere it offers them as opposed to urban core ghettos. There's no stability - people come and go at all hours - can't pin down who actually "lives" there. The other day an unfamiliar vehicle rode past and it sounded like they shot at the house! First drive-by I've EVER been witness to. Pisses me off.

And this global crap is millions of times worse. The Muslims DON'T WANT WESTERN CULTURE in the Middle East - they don't want it, and the more it is suggested, the more belligerent they get. It seems. From the pov of an American citizen watching in horror.

What the REAL behind the scenes goings-on are is IMPOSSIBLE for us to know - and even those involved don't "know" what other "special forces" are doing. It's despicable and evil, and needs to stop NOW.

But, psychopaths don't pay attention to that sort of thinking. And they can't be "cured" - so, I dunno - just let them do each other in and leave us out of it, I guess.

Originally posted by logical7
Whatever the agenda of this thread, ....

Don't do a Passive/Aggressive thing while trying to make this out to be something it's not. The Imam said what he said. We are discussing what he said. Just as we discussed when (Catholic) Father Groeschel said that pedophilia wasn't always considered bad. Just as we discussed when Westborough Baptist called for picketing funerals of murdered Amish girls. Just s we discussed when the New Black Panthers called for the murder of George Zimmerman. etc etc.

reply to post by Danbones

geee BG you keep forgetting the IMAM is on the NATO payroll

Since you are certain of that, you should be able to post a copy of his check stub.

I realize that would be very difficult and would break laws in most countries.... but just what is the proof of him being on their payroll?

eta oh and just ask any protestant evengelical, they'll tell you: Catholics aren't christians

That is another debate....
But just where is it that I called Catholics Christian in the referred post?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by HomerinNC
For all of those about to flame me and tell me this is an extremist and not the norm, WHY ISNT THE 'NORM' CONDEMNING THIS AND THE OTHER EXTREMISTS???

Funny you should mention that -
ATS Thread by Moderator AshleyD - The Social Taboo of Criticizing Radical Islam
She wrote it five years ago. But sadly, it is still appropriate for what is going on here today.

I start a thread about a muslim cleric who calls for rape ... and suddenly I'm supposedly the evil one and not the actual cleric who is calling for raping women. It's insane.

I hope you dont think I'm blaming you, I blame this dirtbag so called 'man of God'
I thank you for posting the article

reply to post by HomerinNC


It's all good. I didn't mean YOU. I thought I put that paragraph separate so you'd know I wasn't talking about you. I just find it sad that people give a free pass to this cleric, but then attack those who actually discuss what he said about calling for rape of those who do not agree with him. It's pretty sick.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Flyer, THANK YOU for linking that post from Ashley.

And now, five years and billions of dollars and 10s of 1000s of dead people later - it remains the same.

"Insanity = repeating the same behavior and expecting different results." (I know you know that - just mentioning it for the benefit of those untrained in psychology....)

Originally posted by Kgnow
reply to post by buster2010

 

It says the same thing in the bible. So does that expose the Christians sexists, tyrannical, and oppressive ideology?

LORD YHWH in the Old Testament is indeed tyrannical, oppressive, sexist, and genocidal.

I'm not in the business to propagate one religion above another, nor do I justify one religious evil for another religious evil.

Wrong is wrong period.

But in this thread we are specifically discussing Allah's commandment that ordains rape. If another thread appears that discusses ordained rape of other religions, then I would be condemning them too.

Stay on topic, this thread is discussing Islam and a muslim cleric's fatwa of rape based upon Qur'anic evidence.

I was only pointing out how your rant about Islam is also included in the Bible was well so your whole Muhammad is the one who started this is in fact a lie. Sorry if the truth hurt your feelings.

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.

Deuteronomy 21: 10-13

Christianity seems perfectly comfortable with the same concept.

reply to post by FlyersFan


He should be the first victim.
No lube and make sure there's lots of kicks and punches to enhance the experience.
On second thought, cut off his penis, hand it back and tell him to go f##k himself.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.

Deuteronomy 21: 10-13

Christianity seems perfectly comfortable with the same concept.

There is a point there.

There is also the point that Christians don't do the Old Testament stoning of adulterers any more (remember Jesus saying that the person that is without sin should cast the first stone?). It has been known to happen in Islamic countries recently.
Not many Christians follow those sorts of teachings that you can find in the OT, but it seems that you can find those sorts of teachings being followed in modern Islam.

This is curious, because I heard another Imam or cleric declare that rape of any form whether the woman is chaste or not will in the form of divine chastisement and karma bring upon the person who commits the crime a "lifetime of poverty".

And as backwards as some people perceive Iran as being, I saw a Youtube video of them hanging rapists, PUBLICLY in front of thousands.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.

Deuteronomy 21: 10-13

Christianity seems perfectly comfortable with the same concept.

There is a point there.

There is also the point that Christians don't do the Old Testament stoning of adulterers any more (remember Jesus saying that the person that is without sin should cast the first stone?). It has been known to happen in Islamic countries recently.
Not many Christians follow those sorts of teachings that you can find in the OT, but it seems that you can find those sorts of teachings being followed in modern Islam.

This is what I love about Christians. The old testament says Homosexuality is wrong, Let's keep that part.. but it tells me under which circumstances I can rape women.. that might not be too well liked.. so let's dump that part.

Either it's The Word or it isn't.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.

Deuteronomy 21: 10-13

Christianity seems perfectly comfortable with the same concept.

There is a point there.

There is also the point that Christians don't do the Old Testament stoning of adulterers any more (remember Jesus saying that the person that is without sin should cast the first stone?). It has been known to happen in Islamic countries recently.
Not many Christians follow those sorts of teachings that you can find in the OT, but it seems that you can find those sorts of teachings being followed in modern Islam.

This is what I love about Christians. The old testament says Homosexuality is wrong, Let's keep that part.. but it tells me under which circumstances I can rape women.. that might not be too well liked.. so let's dump that part.

Either it's The Word or it isn't.

There isn't a person that attends church that isn't a sinner. They don't throw people out of church because they sin. Homosexuals are welcome in most churches that I know. Do you know of any churches that stone homosexuals?

Would you rather they keep the part that condones rape???

Let me know when a Christian stones you in the name of their religion. Let me know when the kill you because you own a copy of the Koran.
As I said before, Jesus said the thing relating to the adulterer, but he spoke of sinners.

reply to post by butcherguy


Why are you demanding to talk about stoning? We are discussing rape. We are discussing rape and its suggested use in Holy Books.

Jesus spoke out about sin, awesome. The passage I posted wasn't a sin, it was actually instruction on how to rape someone as a spoil of war. The Bible is instructing on the correct way to rape a woman.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Tuttle

 

Knock it off. You should learn to read more carefully. I clearly said MASS RAPES by US soldiers doesn't happen and it's not called for by the government. If a rape happens then it is investigated and prosecuted by our government. This is OPPOSITE of what the Imam is calling for. :shk:

You are quite true. Rape is against the law, it is obviously condemned by our government and military, and is delt with harshly when caught.

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

The American government prosecutes soldiers if they rape.

Only an extremely small amount of soldiers that rape are actually prosecuted. Cases like that are usually swept under the rug.

Not true. The military is very sensative to this sort of thing and even the very accusation can be a career ender and the conviction means very hard time.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

First of all, its all despicable.

You seem very concerned about the safety of women. Why not first focus on the US?

Every 2 minutes, someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted.

I guess its easier to point the finger at others.

I realize its fun to pretend that Moslems are the spawn of Satan but somehow I doubt that Moslem religious leaders are the only ones that have made crazy statements.

edit on 2-6-2013 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)

You miss the point. The point is when a leader in a movement officially condones a war crime, then we best not back said movement and strive to prosecute said leaders if and when able.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Why are you demanding to talk about stoning? We are discussing rape. We are discussing rape and its suggested use in Holy Books.

Jesus spoke out about sin, awesome. The passage I posted wasn't a sin, it was actually instruction on how to rape someone as a spoil of war. The Bible is instructing on the correct way to rape a woman.

The rape quote that you referenced was from the Old Testament, a Jewish text. You connect it with Christians. Did Jesus write it? NO, he refuted parts of it... hence the stoning reference.
We are supposed to be discussing how a Muslim Imam condones rape, but the Islamapologists want to take it off track.

ETA: How about you show where modern day Christian clerics are condoning rape, if you really want to bash Christians in this thread.