72 Year-Old-Man Shot Dead By Trigger Happy Cops In His Own Garage

Originally posted by caladonea


Seriously I think a revolution may happen sooner than we think; if reform does not happen now.

Call me a cynic, but people have been saying that for years and years. At this point in time, I really don't think a revolution is going to happen, no matter how badly we need it. We have all become too submissive. Too compliant.

We sit around and let our rights be slowly eroded away, all in the name of " freedom". If we have not yet had the revolution that has been talked about for years, I don't see why it's suddenly going to happen now.

I wish you were right, but I fear you are wrong.

Originally posted by Sankari
If only this had been a gun free zone!

Oh wait... it wasn't a gun free zone...

If only this man had had a gun, he could have defended himself and prevented this unnecessary death!

Oh wait... he did have a gun...

Gee, looks like the usual slogans aren't working.

Of course.. nobody in their right mind aims at a copper (that will get you killed). Using this story as an argument against gun ownership is a poor one, and actually the worst possible example.

Originally posted by Liquesence
If you're speaking about the elderly gentleman, I don't think "concealed carry" is in any way relevant. If he was on his own property when he was shot, concealed carry is entirely irrelevant.

A person can walk around his or her own property carrying a gun if that person likes and should not have to worry about being shot.

it's absolutely relevant, there is a reason why you are required in most states to have a concealed carry permit for a handgun. Rifles are a slightly different story. If your property is open to the public (not enclosed), in many states you will be arrested for openly carrying. Even if you are not breaking the law, you will still have neighbors who will report an armed person, which then potentially makes it “brandishing”. Again, this stuff varies some by state, even local laws, but in general:

Brandishing:

Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

B. Any police officer in the performance of his duty, in making an arrest under the provisions of this section, shall not be civilly liable in damages for injuries or death resulting to the person being arrested if he had reason to believe that the person being arrested was pointing, holding, or brandishing such firearm or air or gas operated weapon, or object that was similar in appearance, with intent to induce fear in the mind of another.

C. For purposes of this section, the word "firearm" means any weapon that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by the action of an explosion of a combustible material. The word "ammunition," as used herein, shall mean a cartridge, pellet, ball, missile or projectile adapted for use in a firearm.

Pay special attention to section “B”...

reply to post by defcon5


The man is on his property. He does not need a permit and has the right to carry a hand gun.

Wrong address a mistake? Sure is. Police should have read the address numbers on the house. I bet the town has an ordinance requiring numbering of a certain size.

Place all the blame on the police. The police version of an event is often padded with, lets say, lies or things that didn't really happen.

reply to post by defcon5


Is that material from the Texas statutes?

Were they making an arrest? No.

Originally posted by dubiousone
(unintelligible) family tell me the 72 year old woke up in the middle of the night, heard his neighbors' alarm and wanted to check it out. So he came outside from the back of his house coming down this driveway. But he didn't even make it across the street. He was shot and killed right here on his own property.

Well, now which is it? Did he go out there because of bright lights and noises of messing around and what not on his own property, or was it due to hearing the neighbor's burglar alarm?

If it was the alarm going off that roused him, going out there to investigate himself would have been pretty stupid you have to admit - gun or no gun, you know the police will be there within minutes with their bright lights and messing around anyways.

When the police got on the scene and saw this guy roaming about, at one a.m., private property or no he's going to be a suspect who was possibly fleeing the scene and on top of that he was armed.

I'd still like to know how that exchange between the two went down - just speaking for myself - the instant I saw that it was a 70-something year old man I'd be more inclined to think the guy was senile or something and out wandering, it happens a lot, and maybe tripping the alarm by accident - until proven otherwise.

Sounds like there are two versions to the story here on how the old guy ended up out there, one that the wife is telling and another from this witness.

Where is the ACCOUNTABILITY? A police badge should not be a "license to kill".......

reply to post by roadgravel

Texas state statutes:

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

You cannot openly carry a handgun, it must be concealed. I believe that you can openly carry a rifle or shotgun, as these are used in hunting, ranching, etc...

reply to post by roadgravel
Texas brandishing falls under disorderly conduct.

Texas State Statutes
Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:
(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

reply to post by defcon5

so, which part of his garage is/was PUBLIC property ???
or is this just akin to the technique the cops use ... or shall we just say as they do ...
close enough

when in Rome folks ... shoot first and ask questions later.
what's good for the goose and all that.

reply to post by Honor93

He was not in his garage from what I read, he was a few feet outside his kitchen. I assume from the way the story is written its an unattached garage. Sure, if he was in his house, or in his closed garage, where the public cannot see him, he can openly carry to his hearts content. You cannot, however, openly carry where others can see you no matter if you own the property or not.

reply to post by defcon5

so you say but here in FL, we do it every day.
especially while fishing, camping or simply cleaning them.

as for the 'where', i read IN his garage ... attached or not is irrelevant.
ps ... i confess i did not read the story linked in the OP, i read about this a few days ago and from both the Raw source i read and the Title of this thread, IN his garage is what i believe.

source
‘Trigger-happy’ cops shoot 72-year-old Texas man dead inside his own garage

Kathy Waller said to WFAA-TV on Tuesday after her husband, Jerry Waller, was shot inside the couple’s garage

Her husband grabbed his .38-caliber handgun and went downstairs to see what was happening. She said to the station she heard six gunshots after he opened the garage door.

while it's true the msm lies, i seriously doubt the wife would be quoted as a liar.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Honor93

 

He was not in his garage from what I read, he was a few feet outside his kitchen. I assume from the way the story is written its an unattached garage. Sure, if he was in his house, or in his closed garage, where the public cannot see him, he can openly carry to his hearts content. You cannot, however, openly carry where others can see you no matter if you own the property or not.

I'm sorry I can't offer a source link however I can tell you that the garage is attached, maybe you can find it, it has been shown on WFAA news several times, a neighbor took a photo after it happened, which showed Jerry Waller dead inside his garage, next to the door which goes inside his house, completely in his garage.

I might also add that this garage wasn't even facing the street, his garage was in the rear of his house.

The Texas CHL rules apply to public areas. They are not for private property. A person can carry, open, a hand gun or rifle on their own property or premise.

People can keep trying to find laws against or site other state laws but the man would not bet breaking a law by walking into his yard with a hand gun.

But there seems to be uncertainty of where he was in the building or the yard. Remember the cops went to the wrong house so they may have thought a person inside had broken in.

Rookies...

reply to post by defcon5

You cannot, however, openly carry where others can see you no matter if you own the property or not.

You are misinterpreting the law.

these out of control cops seem to be getting worse and worse. it seems they DO INDEED have a licence to kill, harass and maim the public they should be protecting.

here is a suggestion for trying to rein them in. require each and every officer to have a good quality video camera (like a dashboard camera), with a good quality sound pickup, on at ALL times while on duty or are carrying their gun. have them all audited by people with no connection to the police in any way (such as family members). any perceived abuses then get taken to the justice system for review. any "missing" time/footage or camera/audio pickup being covered, gets a cop an immediate dismissal from the force. also any person who has an issue should be given free access to any relevant footage and can also send it along with their complaints to the judicial system. any and all cases where an officer fires their weapon (including tasers) should automatically go to judicial review. any cop who has anything sent to the judicial system must be immediately put on unpaid leave and not be allowed to have a firearm in their possession. if it discovered to be "clean" then they may be put back to work as well as being then paid for their off time. if situation was "bad" but a minor infraction then the leave is unpaid and retraining in that area done before an officer goes back on duty. but at the same time an officer may only have THREE such incidents (just like the "three strike" rule for criminals), or are dismissed. after passing a judicial review it should then go through a separate civilian review, to make sure that the judicial review was not being partial to the cops. this would even be beneficial to the cops as it would give them "proof" when they are being wrongfully accused, as well if anything bad did happen or a criminal got away they might just have a good picture to use to get the perpetrator. and hey if things like "cameras" in public is good for law enforcement, this would be even better.

SOMETHING needs to be done about all of this abuse of being an officer. it seems a day hardly goes by without hearing of at least one such incident. if something is not done about it i fear that it very well could become almost a war between civilians and the very police who are supposed to protect them.

picture this very incident when the average person feels more threatened by the police then by criminals, (something many people already feel). the man is in his garage, the cops announce "this is the police", he fires to kill the officers knowing his life is in immediate danger from the cops. then in court he "proves" his case by all the out of control cop abuse and killings, that have been going on. thus proving his life was in danger just because the cops where there.

Stories like this remind me why I purposely live in places with no damned police force.......
Sad, sorry for the guy and his family.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control;
...
For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent.

www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us...

Real property...

.

Always take a defensive position .

Call out who is there ?

Call 911

remain in a defensive position until you identify your target

Police will identify themselves

any one or thing that advances on your position without identifying themselves

blast the crap out of them with out hesitation

Your property is not worth your life .

.

While investigating the incident, the uniformed officers encountered an armed man and opened fire because they “feared for their safety,” according to a police statement.

Police told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that the officers encountered Waller “at the back of his house near the garage and driveway.”

But family members say Waller was killed in his garage.

“We are deeply troubled by the Police Department misrepresenting details of the incident,” said Waller’s daughter, Angie, at a news conference Wednesday afternoon in front of her parents’ two-story brick home.

She said the family is “shocked and deeply saddened” by her father’s untimely death “in the privacy of his own home.”

She said her father heard a noise behind his house and went to investigate, grabbing his gun for protection.

While no one in the family witnessed the shooting, his body was found “inside his own garage,” said Angie Waller, reading from a prepared statement.

“We were disturbed by suggestions that police may have felt threatened by a man in his own garage faced with unknown trespassers wielding flashlights,” she said.

The medical examiner’s office listed the garage as Waller’s place of death.

Lin k

Doubt we will know the truth.