Why Buddha says true freedom is freedom of desire...

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


You cannot truly fulfill a desire. You simply desire, and when that desire is met, you no longer have the desire. There was no 'fulfillment' there, just desire and then no desire.

You don't need to desire health in order to keep the body healthy. And as for creativity... why the need for it? I have nothing against it of course (we would not be here without it), but a desire is a desire, and what is being desired does not matter.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by arpgme

 

Isn't freedom from desire also a desire? What if I desire health? What if I desire creativity? We should perhaps not get rid of desire, but desire the right things—that which is healthy. No?

Freedom from desire is not a desire, it just is. One might have the desire to be free from desire, but that's irrelevant, because being free comes from letting go, and that desire will also be let go of in time.

If you desire health, then what happens when you fall sick, or even start to die? You will suffer. If you desire creativity, what happens you experience things that are mundane and uncreative? You will suffer.
To be free from all suffering, you must be free from all desire. Craving and clinging are the causes of suffering.

reply to post by arpgme


It was always my understanding that the Buddha believed ALL desire was inconsequential. Not just the "negative" spectrum of emotions.

Your love, like your hate, is temporary and illusory, and therefore a mirage of reality. Remove both love and hate and see yourself as you are meant to be. --- That kind of a thing.

When you solely focus on "completeness" or "satisfaction" you're actually feeding on an empty emotion. To be truly complete, I would argue, you need to experience the whole spectrum of emotions which life has to offer.

If you witness a birth, a graduation, a first love, a marriage, and the adoption of a puppy you certainly feel whole and complete, but only because you've ignored what the other side of life offers us.

If you've never experienced a death, then I would argue that you cannot fully appreciate the miracle of life. If you have never experienced failure and loss, then you cannot truly understand what it is to succeed and accomplish that which you put your mind to. And if you never experience heart-ache, heartbreak, and sorrow then you cannot truly say you've found pure, unadulterated happiness, contentment, or Nirvana.

Life is all about experiences. Buddhism is a negation of those experience, both good and bad. To negate an experience---to truly do so---you must actually experience it. When you have experienced all that life has to offer, and learned to negate each and every one of those experience---love AND hate; joy AND sorrow; peace AND anger---then I think you'll truly be where the Buddha believed he was when enlightenment illuminated his spirit.

~ Scribe

Originally posted by Damsel
Freedom from desire is not a desire, it just is. One might have the desire to be free from desire, but that's irrelevant, because being free comes from letting go, and that desire will also be let go of in time.

If you desire health, then what happens when you fall sick, or even start to die? You will suffer. If you desire creativity, what happens you experience things that are mundane and uncreative? You will suffer.
To be free from all suffering, you must be free from all desire. Craving and clinging are the causes of suffering.

Yes -- freedom from desire is freedom from attachment to outcomes and expectation. The suffering comes when these expectations are not met.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

I don't think that's the case. If it were, one would need to experience everything in order to truly let go, and that's not possible.

Being enlightened, according to Buddhism, is as simple as eradicating craving and clinging. Once you stop clinging to anything you think you have (material possessions, your body, your sense of self, your emotions, etc.) and stop craving anything you don't have (material possessions, comfort, pleasure, entertainment, etc.) then you will be enlightened. You don't need to experience a spectrum of emotions or events throughout your life to get there. Really, having more experiences in this life just creates more opportunities to become attached, that is why the Buddha sat alone in a forest for 6 years, and when he taught the Dhamma, he did not require his followers to have a range of experiences. It was about letting go and seeing things as they really are.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by mideast

 

So if the government wanted everyone to be Buddhist that would mean it is "not right"?

The government wants people to keep striving without stopping. This endless wanting and lack will keep the government feel useful in providing ( of course they will not help others to feel completely fulfilled or there would be nothing else to long/ask for.

The government has already created the perfect environment to allow Buddhist and Hinduism practices to flood the land by merely allowing its population to be seduced into loving sin, and as the natural consequence is a hardening of the heart which automatically causes a falling away from the Truth, The God of Heaven and Earth, the very Saviour of the majority's forefathers. Buddhism and Hinduism is flooding into teaching practices, study methods, 'exercise', corporate training departments, self help books, film, tv, medicine, psychiatry, schools, churches....in fact, there isn't a single part of society that these religions haven't smothered. But unfortunately, it's been placed under so many new terms to simply disguise it for what is is, that most still have no idea how prevalent it is. In a society that demands separation of church and state, I.e. Jesus Christ out, the new religion can't be brought in without disguising it and saturating the populace with the belief that these two religions aren't "religions".

Lies and deceit are the only methods used to pass off untruths as truths. The local counties can't very well say that they are bringing in Buddhist practices into the classroom, now can they? The corporations can't very well say that they are bring in eastern religious techniques, now can they? The doctors can't very well say that they are sending us to learn Buddhist and Hinduistic mind altering techniques for our "health and relaxation", now can they? Why not? Because it would alarm a large segment of the population as to the truthfulness of God's words in scripture, and may very well cause too much resistance to a leadership structure that drones on and on about separation of church and state (I.e. Jesus Christ and Bible out), yet who are actively allowing another religion IN.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is Truth. What is happening is exactly what He said would happen. The nations would be deceived at the end of the Millenium by falling away from the Truth. Having not learned to love the Truth, they will believe the delusion and the lie. With no truthful reference, man will uphold lies and untruths and be swept away in these final days of the age.

Lack is an idea that has not been investigated. You cannot desire the end of lack - one must see if 'lack' is true.

Desiring not to desire was not the final word by the Buddha,it was the opening sentence in a dialogue. Once you realise it is impossible to desire giving up desire, you start to get the point. The point being that your "self"and your ego are one and the same thing. By wanting to give up desire, you are trying to get one up over the "other". While failing to understand the self and other are the same. You can't have one without the other.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Desire is caused by the belief in lack. When lack is investigated and you realize there is no lack there is no need to desire the end of desire.

I love to want, i love to wish, i love the passion, the conquest, i love life!

No Buddha will take that away from me, i tried to supress my wishes, my wanting, my life, but it didnt work.

Without the wish to create, there would be no game to play, no life to live, no universe, nothing!!!

Get over it.

The problem is not in wanting, the problem is that people dont know how to manage their emotions, they cant see that whatever happens we can always find reasons to live and love life, no sadness is eternal, adversity is our teacher, we always, and i mean always, have reaons to love life, even if we cant see them...

Buddha is wrong. True freedom in this lifetime is a mirage; you cannot be free so as long as you are a slave to the body.

Ironically, you'll find the most freedom within prison, and the least living "free." Why? Because while in prison, all of your basic needs are taken care of. You are thus free to think.

Originally posted by Manula
I love to want, i love to wish, i love the passion, the conquest, i love life!

No Buddha will take that away from me, i tried to supress my wishes, my wanting, my life, but it didnt work.

Without the wish to create, there would be no game to play, no life to live, no universe, nothing!!!

Get over it.

The problem is not in wanting, the problem is that people dont know how to manage their emotions, they cant see that whatever happens we can always find reasons to live and love life, no sadness is eternal, adversity is our teacher, we always, and i mean always, have reaons to love life, even if we cant see them...

Suppressing will not work as you have already discovered. Only when the idea of lack has been fully investigated will the feeling of lack vanish.

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
Ironically, you'll find the most freedom within prison, and the least living "free." Why? Because while in prison, all of your basic needs are taken care of. You are thus free to think.

Do you believe that thinking more will free you?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Manula
I love to want, i love to wish, i love the passion, the conquest, i love life!

No Buddha will take that away from me, i tried to supress my wishes, my wanting, my life, but it didnt work.

Without the wish to create, there would be no game to play, no life to live, no universe, nothing!!!

Get over it.

The problem is not in wanting, the problem is that people dont know how to manage their emotions, they cant see that whatever happens we can always find reasons to live and love life, no sadness is eternal, adversity is our teacher, we always, and i mean always, have reaons to love life, even if we cant see them...

Suppressing will not work as you have already discovered. Only when the idea of lack has been fully investigated will the feeling of lack vanish.

You guys think of the wish to create something beautifull as a feeling of lack!
How wrong...
I dont know how you were born, what are you doing here? Nothing to do, nothing to create...
That way of life kills me, i really cant understand it...

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
Buddha is wrong. True freedom in this lifetime is a mirage; you cannot be free so as long as you are a slave to the body.

Maybe you are just believing that you are a slave to the body. Maybe the body takes care of itself but you think that it is your job. Maybe everything is just happening and there is no need to do anything about anything but see that it is just happening.

Who are you? What are you?

Originally posted by Manula

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Manula
I love to want, i love to wish, i love the passion, the conquest, i love life!

No Buddha will take that away from me, i tried to supress my wishes, my wanting, my life, but it didnt work.

Without the wish to create, there would be no game to play, no life to live, no universe, nothing!!!

Get over it.

The problem is not in wanting, the problem is that people dont know how to manage their emotions, they cant see that whatever happens we can always find reasons to live and love life, no sadness is eternal, adversity is our teacher, we always, and i mean always, have reaons to love life, even if we cant see them...

Suppressing will not work as you have already discovered. Only when the idea of lack has been fully investigated will the feeling of lack vanish.

You guys think of the wish to create something beautifull as a feeling of lack!
How wrong...
I dont know how you were born, what are you doing here? Nothing to do, nothing to create...
That way of life kills me, i really cant understand it...

Is there anything lacking where you are? Is anything else needed?

Without desire you are free of control.

Without desire there is still fear. Fear is the fundamental driver behind survival. Control mabey an inherent survival feature encoded inside humans DNA.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage

Without desire you are free of control.

Without desire there is still fear. Fear is the fundamental driver behind survival. Control mabey an inherent survival feature encoded inside humans DNA.

Do you have to survive right now - or is it just an idea arising?
Did you read my post on your thread?

Originally posted by Manula
I dont know how you were born, what are you doing here? Nothing to do, nothing to create...
That way of life kills me, i really cant understand it...

What I am was never born. What I am has never not been.
Nothing was ever created - it/I appear as all there is - what could I possibly want? It is all here as this.

You are appearing a wanting - how does it feel - because I have read your posts and you are looking for something better so it appears it is not good enough as yet.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Do you have to survive right now - or is it just an idea arising?
Did you read my post on your thread?

Yes i did read it. In this thread i am putting the idea out there for consideration that fear is the linkage between control and survival and even with thought removed that that force of survival will ensure that fear and control remain in our lives.

I dont have to survive right now but i am fully aware i am mortal.