Thousands of Muslims gather in London to condemn murder of soldier Lee Rigby

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

That's right. Basing our judgement of them on the antics of the EDL would be as ridiculous as blaming the behaviour of muslim extremists on all muslims.

You do realize that it is Saudi Arabia that is spreading the intolerant Wahhabi strain of Islam throughout the West?

Almost all Islamic terrorists are Wahhabi (or Salafi).

Apparently, even 10 years ago, the Saudi's had spent $87 billion building Wahhabi mosques?

National Review

Apparently 85% of the mosques in the USA are Wahhabi dominated.

The Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America and the Sufi Muslim Council has testified that Islamic supremacists control 80% of US mosques.

reply to post by destination now


I never called you dumb - so please - don't put words in my mouth

I did however say people aren't thinking

And bigotry is what it is - what was that you were saying about somebody's poopy religion?

You based your opinion of an entire people on only two incidents - involving how many people?

What do you think bigotry is - just out of curiosity?

I'll say it again - we're all entitled to our opinions. I'm entitled to mine. If you don't like my opinion - that's up to you

yet did any muslim's march to condemn the case's of the muslim pedohile ring's that have been hushed up by
the media (for the most part anyhow) for fear of it coursing riots? DOUBT IT

But then "there" messiah had no problem taking his best friends daughter at age 8-9? for his wife
so no surprises there then.
Only difference the muslim men pedo's were noncing WHITE BRITISH girls/boys.

Oh i can hear you all shouting "but thats only a minority of bad muslims"

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by theconspirator

You either hate all muslims, or fear all muslims. Either way, you need to grow up and stop catagorizing entire populations together with the acts of a few bad men.

But why does Islam produce so many bad men?

After all, we don't hear about Hindus chopping peoples' heads off in the street or Buddhists blowing spectators up at a race?

Is it perhaps because the aggressive fundamentalist Wahhabi school of Islam is being spread by Saudi Arabia money across the West?

Almost all (if not all) Muslim terrorists are Wahhabi or Salafi. Perhaps 80% of all mosques built in the last decade in the West have been financed by Saudi Wahhabi money.

Perhaps the miracle is that there hasn't been more terrorist attacks.

^^ This Exactly ^^

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

That's right. Basing our judgement of them on the antics of the EDL would be as ridiculous as blaming the behaviour of muslim extremists on all muslims.

So are you going to address what AI said? Or are you just going to post more irrelevant stuff? Like below:

You do realize that it is Saudi Arabia that is spreading the intolerant Wahhabi strain of Islam throughout the West?

Almost all Islamic terrorists are Wahhabi (or Salafi).

Apparently, even 10 years ago, the Saudi's had spent $87 billion building Wahhabi mosques?

National Review

Apparently 85% of the mosques in the USA are Wahhabi dominated.

The Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America and the Sufi Muslim Council has testified that Islamic supremacists control 80% of US mosques.

reply to post by ollncasino


Christianity grew the same way. Christians to this day still 'spread the word' through violence. The latest gross display happening in Uganda, where US Christian groups go and live and spread money around to lawmakers to pass laws that punish homosexuality, either through the death penalty or life in prison.

Now to me, I find that disgusting, exploitative and violent. But what good would it do, to say all Christians are like that? This is a select few hundred out of billions.

What about the groups of Buddhists who have turned violent? Does that make their entire religion and the billions that are Buddhist violent? How could it?

Where is your outrage about these groups from other religions, why is it just focused on Islam? If you are as you say opposed to just the extremists that are Islamic, why are you not opposed to these others? Why are you only so verbal about Islam and not other religions that have followers that use violence?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I don't care for any religions, not just Islam, so now if I think all religion is poop that makes me a bigot. And yes, I provided two personal examples of why I think the Islamic religion is oppressive to women, I could probably give several more as to why I think other religions are poop...

It most certainly does not make me a bigot..

And I think you know that I was not attributing the "dumb" comment to you..that was the OP

Originally posted by theconspirator
reply to post by ollncasino

 

You either hate all muslims, or fear all muslims. Either way, you need to grow up and stop catagorizing entire populations together with the acts of a few bad men.

We've read their religious book...We know what they believe regardless of how they present themselves in public...

Originally posted by nenothtu
Criticizing Islam is one thing. Lumping all Muslims into the terrorist camp is another thing altogether.

I can agree with that. At the same time, I note that there is already a long history of radicalized mosques in the UK, you can look up the connections of the previous gen terrorists (subway bombings etc). What I do find is that these people often DO NOT act in isolation but there is a medium, whole strata in the society in which the hate towards the West is cultivated and enabled. I'm far from lumping ALL Muslims together "into the terrorist camp". But some non-negligible fraction? Yes, sure.

How can we solve this problem. We can't, only the moderate Muslims can fix what is in there own backyards. Problem is most are to scared or even worse they approve of it. Until they finally stand up around the world and say enough is enough this will never change.




To all you apologists screaming intolerance how in the heck do you explain shia law and the way they treat women? The very people you are begging for tolerance towards actually are the most intolerant people on the planet. Gotta love irony.



It is time people around the world lose the politically correct crap and see things for what they truly are.

Originally posted by nenothtu
That's pretty much the way war was conducted in those days, so I'm at a loss as to why you find it unusual.

I just find it ironic that the founder of the 'religion of peace' chopped the heads off of 800 Jewish POWs and sold their women and children into slavery.

Sirat Rasul Allah - "Life of God's Messenger"

But then, Islam doesn't exactly translate to peace does it?

Islam translates from Arabic as "peace, purity, submission and obedience"

In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law.

Link

Muslims tell us Islam means peace but leave out the submission and obedience to Allah part.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by nenothtu

You are anti-Muslim, and are recruiting for the extremists by not making the distinction.

But clearly giving Islam a free 'get out of jail card' hasn't worked either. Islamic extremism is increasing. At an alraming rate.

No particular reason that Islam should be IN jail, to even need a "get out of jail free" card. This is just the latest example of your failure to differentiate between your real enemy and "those people".

And you wonder why Islamic extremism is increasing?

I might get a little rowdy too, if you wanted to jail me simply for the way I believe, when it has done no harm to YOU.

While you feel that I am part of the problem, I feel that you are. Pretending that many Muslims are not radicals clearly has not worked.

What works is dealing with the radicals - not producing more of them.

Islam must be examined, warts and all.

Everything should be, but we don't all have time to examine everything, warts and all. I have to wonder why you chose Islam to examine and go on your jihad against. If that's the worst you have to worry about, you've got a pretty good life, and I'm happy for you.

Threats of violence by Muslim extremists to intimidate people into silence is not the solution, as much as you appear to acquiesce to that perspective.

My record pretty much speaks for itself. I've been consistent in saying to deal with the extremists, and not be distracted and diluted by the innocent, trying to MAKE them into extremists.

I've never acquiesced to them, and I'll not acquiesce to you. Extremists are extremists, even when they don't wear an iqal.

Originally posted by SubTruth

To all you apologists screaming intolerance how in the heck do you explain shia law and the way they treat women? The very people you are begging for tolerance towards actually are the most intolerant people on the planet.

Gotta love irony.

Yes. It is amazing that political correctness demands that we tolerate intolerance in the name of tolerance.

Its almost as if there was some sort of hidden agenda at play.

Originally posted by Kali74

Christians to this day still 'spread the word' through violence...

...But what good would it do, to say all Christians are like that? This is a select few hundred out of billions.

Can you show me a post where I have stated or implied that all Muslims 'spread the word' through violence?

.

reply to post by ollncasino


I didn't say you said anything. I said other religions have people that are violent in their name and asked why aren't you vocal about the others, why only Islam? Are you going to address the tone of my post or just side step it by cherry picking?

reply to post by neformore


Well Nef, I haven't gone through the whole thread yet, but I do commend the actions of those that proclaim to be Muslims or any other person that condemn these horrendous murders.

If there is one thing I know about the human race is that we Kill, and we are ALL Hypocrites. I don't know if we will ever ascend to a higher intellectual level until we can admit that on a global scale, or even in the mirror.



S&F

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by nenothtu

I think they support the Muslim contention that war is only justified in self-defense.

What I find interesting is that Muhammad was so busy defending himself from isolated city states with his large army, that he managed to defensively conquer the whole Arabian peninsula!



Muhammad was a violent warlord and all Muslims know that.

Many non Muslims do not.

HistoryNet - Muhammad the Warrior Prophet

So if he "conquered the whole Arabian peninsula", why post a map of the expansions under subsequent generals?

Mislead much?

Wars happen, people fight, territory is conquered, irrespective of religion. I know that as well as any one, since my people were conquered by yours, and had their land "annexed". Hell, they made us wear shoes and kidnapped our kids to "acculturate" them, made us cut our hair and speak their language and the whole nine yards. Yet they are somehow better than expansionist Arabs?

Should I hate YOU because of the atrocities around Jamestown? Should I hate British folks in general because of them? Maybe you think so, because that is EXACTLY what you are doing to those "evil Muslims" here.

Yet I don't run around whining about those "damnable expansionist Brits"! I tend to like most of the Brits I've met, actually. Doesn't mean I've got to eat pork pie or fish and chips, or wear a bowler.

Originally posted by nenothtu

I have to wonder why you chose Islam to examine and go on your jihad against. If that's the worst you have to worry about, you've got a pretty good life, and I'm happy for you.

That is a good question.

I have always been anti-religious so paradoxically religion has always somewhat interested me.

ATS is also a hobby of mine. I did notice however that when I spoke about Islam, lots of people defended it without knowing really anything about it.

They just assumed that it was the same as Christianity. I could either stop getting into discussions about Islam or research the subject more fully to be able to prove my case. I went for the latter option.

I wasn't too impressed by what I found. I found that Muhammad was a warlord who spread Islamic domination by the sword and that all Muslims know that. I found that Muslim extremists all too readily find justification in the Koran and Hadith to justify their vile acts of violence. I also found that Muhammad stated that engaging in violent Jihad was second only to believing in Allah.

I also found that the Koran demands 91 times that Muslims imitate Mohammed in every way.

So in a sense, it was the kind hearted, but woefully ignorant, do gooders who defended Islam while knowing nothing about it that created me.

reply to post by nenothtu

This is just the latest example of your failure to differentiate between your real enemy and "those people".

That is the problem, when the moderates can't / won't out the extremists, how are we to know? To bad so sad that I will take a second look at a Muslim - hurt feelings, creating more extremists - take care of your own house and you won't have to worry about others butting their noses in your own business. I also won't buy into a they are disenfranchised either, they have just as much say as the rest of us and if the rest of us say we do not want sharia - then that is the way it is. Do not become violent because you don't get your own way.

Everything should be, but we don't all have time to examine everything, warts and all. I have to wonder why you chose Islam to examine and go on your jihad against. If that's the worst you have to worry about, you've got a pretty good life, and I'm happy for you.

If me and others want to "examine everything" then that is our call and if you don't like it then tough, go ahead and act as sarcastic as you want, still not getting you anywhere.

My record pretty much speaks for itself. I've been consistent in saying to deal with the extremists, and not be distracted and diluted by the innocent, trying to MAKE them into extremists.

Again, how do you identify the extremists. Unless they are stupid enough to out themselves then the only way to find them out is by their own community.