Thousands of Muslims gather in London to condemn murder of soldier Lee Rigby

Originally posted by intrepid

What's the "greater" jihad? Being an expert and all I thought you would have known this.

I have never claimed to be an expert.

The concept of 'greater' and 'lesser' jihad was invented in the 11th century.

During Prophet Muhammad's lifetime, and onwards to the present, the word 'Jihad' was, and is, almost always used in a military sense.

This idea of a greater and lesser jihad was a later development which originated from the 11th century book, The History of Baghdad, by the Islamic scholar al-Khatib al-Baghdadiis

Link

When Muhammad told Muslims that Jihad was second only to believing in Allah, he really was speaking about violent jihad.

Narrated by Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 25

Sahih Bukhari is a canonical Hadith to Sunni Muslims who make up perhaps 85%+ of Muslims worldwide.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by nenothtu
That's pretty much the way war was conducted in those days, so I'm at a loss as to why you find it unusual.

I just find it ironic that the founder of the 'religion of peace' chopped the heads off of 800 Jewish POWs and sold their women and children into slavery.

Sirat Rasul Allah - "Life of God's Messenger"

But then, Islam doesn't exactly translate to peace does it?

No, it doesn't translate to peace at all. I've already addressed that, but you may have missed that post. Do you take all of your other talking points from George Bush's blunders, or just this one?

Islam translates from Arabic as "peace, purity, submission and obedience"

In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law.

Link

Muslims tell us Islam means peace but leave out the submission and obedience to Allah part.

Ummm no... Muslims didn't tell you that, George Bush did. All of the Muslims I've ever met know what "Islam" means, and that it means "submission", not "peace".

Do the Muslims you talk to make OTHER egregious errors regarding Islam? it seems they may, since that's what you preach. Perhaps they should spend more time studying their own religion, and less misleading you?

reply to post by Kali74


Then why don't you make a thread about that then? If that is what is taking place then shed some light on it. This thread is about Islam.......

and yes, the bible has its share of nastiness, but how much of that goes on in western nations?

reply to post by Kali74


The bible may well say that, but when was the last time a Christian actually stoned a homosexual to death? Homosexuals are hanged all the time in modern day Islamic countries, but believe me I would condemn any religion that did that sort of thing regardless of who or where they were.

Another reason I think all religion is poop, but apparently that makes me a bigot

reply to post by ollncasino


Was Jesus God? Bill Maher's answer




So Jesus is God.
The bible is the word of God,and God's word is full of violence.
But YOU can continue to pick and choose if you like.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by Kali74

 

Then why don't you make a thread about that then? If that is what is taking place then shed some light on it. This thread is about Islam.......

Actually it was about "Thousands of Muslims gather in London to condemn murder of soldier Lee Rigby" until the hate crowd showed up.

Originally posted by Kali74

How about the Christian missionaries in Uganda buying laws that put gays to death, like I mentioned before?

I condemn Christian missionaries in Uganda buying laws that put gays to death, if it is true.

Originally posted by Kali74
The Bible also says that homosexuals should be stoned to death, it says the same about adulterers, yet you only talk about Islam and the people who use Islam as an excuse to do horrible things, when clearly it is not an affliction only affecting Islam.

Do Christians put gays to death these days?

Originally posted by Kali74
Why not just all religious extremists in general be they Islamic, Christian, Hindu, Jewish yadda yadda?

I condemn all religious extremists. Including the ones who chop soldiers heads off.

reply to post by MidnightTide


I don't need to be directed to do anything, thank-you.
I'm asking a person to explain why condemn one and not all. It's a very simple question that seems to be twisting people into knots to avoid and distract from, even if the question wasn't directed to them.

And heres the problems with ALL religons.

Originally posted by ollncasino
When Muhammad told Muslims that Jihad was second only to believing in Allah, he really was speaking about of violent jihad.

And you know this how? Because of this one small snippet from a much larger article?

Narrated by Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 25

Sahih Bukhari is a canonical Hadith to Sunni Muslims who make up perhaps 85%+ of Muslims worldwide.

What's with the parenthesis? Added text maybe? Yeah, that's a convincer.

reply to post by ollncasino


What about the white Christian who stabbed a Muslim grandfather to death a couple of weeks ago?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

How many do you think are following these commands to the letter? Shouldn't there have been far more extremist acts of brutality if they've been living by these rules all along?

That is the miracle. With Saudi Arabia spread the aggressive and intolerant Wahhabism around the globe, the miracle is that there are not more terrorist attacks.

There are no miracles. For somebody who is supposedly irreligious, you're mighty quick to jump to supernatural explanations.

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by ollncasino

 

What about the white Christian who stabbed a Muslim grandfather to death a couple of weeks ago?

Oh heck! wait i shall put on my shoes go down the local mosque and beg forgiveness for this hateful crime?
NO that would be a really bad idea,for me. i can't see it working out somehow.

What do you want me to say? an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind blah blah blah etc etc etc?

Originally posted by intrepid

What's with the parenthesis? Added text maybe?

Yeah, that's a convincer.

No offense but you really are clutching at straws. The quote and parenthesis is lifted directly from the Islamic site sultan.org.

You only had to open the link to see that. Clearly you did not.

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 25

Originally posted by intrepid
And you know this how? Because of this one small snippet from a much larger article?

The concept of greater and lesser jiahd was invented in the 11th century.

Again, you only had to open the link to see that there is no less than 9 Islamic sources that are used to substantiate that point.

Link

For whatever reason, you have chosen to not do so.

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Again, how do you identify the extremists. Unless they are stupid enough to out themselves then the only way to find them out is by their own community.

You never WILL be able to identify them on your own so long as you assume that ALL Muslims are complicit. You'll see terrorists everywhere you look like that, and no Muslim will help you out, because you already suspect him. You'll never understand the internal workings enough to be able to pick out terrorist before they blow you up so long as you are eyeballing the entire community and trying to keep them at arm's length, away from you.

The only way to know something is to dig into it, right up to the elbows.

Until you do that, you will have to rely on Muslims to help you out, and alienating them from doing so is probably not the best way to go about that.

ETA: Here's an example: if you know about the religion, a ten minute conversation will tell you if an individual holds extremist views or not, and bears watching. If you accept the propaganda about it, without learning about it yourself, you will suspect ALL Islamic views as being extremist, and consequently will have no idea who really bears watching and who doesn't.

What I'm seeing in this thread is a lot of the propaganda being pushed as the actual religion, and those people have no idea who needs watching, or where it will come from when it comes for them, if it ever does. Consequently they just demonize ALL Muslims, because they don't know who to observe.

Originally posted by destination now
reply to post by sonnny1

 

Well the words were spoken at Friday prayers, so unlikely that hoards of average Londoners would have been allowed to enter the mosque...particularly the women...

No British Citizen needs to wait for those in a Mosque to denounce these murders.

That doesn't mean the average Londoner, or British person couldn't have taken to the streets in support of their fellow citizens who have denounced this. Like I said, Silence is no excuse for those who were offended by these heinous crimes. That is the problem with man. Too many people on the sidelines unwilling to hold their brothers hand in unity.


Just wish humanity could get off their collective asses and say enough is enough.

MHO.

reply to post by buster2010


Yeah , he is insane cause he is talking the truth in your face and you cant handle it

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by Kali74

 

Then why don't you make a thread about that then? If that is what is taking place then shed some light on it. This thread is about Islam.......

Actually it was about "Thousands of Muslims gather in London to condemn murder of soldier Lee Rigby" until the hate crowd showed up.

Well I thought I cleared that up on page 7 with this:

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Originally posted by intrepid
I think it's safe to say that the good that these Muslims did has now been totally shadowed by posts that are totally irrelevant to that. Well done. Can we get back to the topic? Or is that not enough hate for one day?

Ok

AWESOME JOB GUYS. There are awesome moderate Muslims in the UK who find extremist acts repugnant. So the thread done then?

Unless the intent was just to have people say good job, see nothing wrong with Islam, nothing at all to worry about. Now I guess some of you may think I am hating all Muslims, but I am not. I will say that there is a core of extremism in Islam that needs to be addressed.

Originally posted by intrepid

Actually it was about "Thousands of Muslims gather in London to condemn murder of soldier Lee Rigby" until the hate crowd showed up.

Legitimate debate about Islam has been stifled by political correctness for too long.

Can we try to find a middle ground?

Can we agree that up to 4,000 British Muslims having been trained by the Taliban is a source of concern?

MI5 has estimated that up to 4,000 British Muslims had travelled to Pakistan and, before the fall of the Taliban, to Afghanistan for military training.

The Independent

Originally posted by yamammasamonkey
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

Why didn't you just fill in the blank yourself. There is only one religion in the entire world that has filled that blank in my lifetime. Islam! If you can't admit that, then you can not have a realistic conversation about the subject.

edit on 27-5-2013 by yamammasamonkey because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-5-2013 by yamammasamonkey because: Spelling

There are plenty of instances where fill in the blank apply. And it isn't always Islam. Though I will grant you that blank is filled by the followers of the ideology quite often.