Meaning of life solved? You decide!

In this thread I will attempt to solve the meaning of life with the most simple and easy to understand fundamentals as possible. I will try to keep this short and sweet so your coffee doesn't get cold as you read. I am using a scientific and logical style approach that still leaves breathing room for metaphysical experiences and doesn't insist on denouncing anyone's particular beliefs.

The fundamentals I am using are: Fractals, analogy, evolution, entropy, and simple math

A simple analogy. This section can be skipped for those in a hurry
How do you discover the meaning of something? By looking at its parts. Do you need to see every part to be sure of its meaning? Not necessarily. Imagine an alien race finding an old human car and trying to figure out its meaning. They wouldn't need to know about the catalytic converter to figure this out, although the more parts you can identify the more sure you can be. It's easy to tell a car is meant for carrying passengers quickly across a flat surface, just by identifying its wheels, its engine, and its seats.

A reason for the season. Imagine god existing in perfection for all eternity. To a scientist this would be like a hell. No room for creativity, no room for improvement, no room for competition, no room for solving anything. Perfection is a loathsome thing in this sense. But this is the hidden goal right? Perfection? Or is it possible to experience infinite creativity and improvement. This exists mathematically, I am no genius so I will use a simple asymptote to explain. This is a graph which has a large slow growing base that increases its rate of growth faster and faster as it approaches infinity, yet never truly reaches infinity. It is a simple way to imagine an existence of constant exponential improvement which requires a relatively infinitely slow start.

Starting to see where I am heading with this? Lets keep on adding to it.

Fractals: Everything small is just a small version of something big. Many of our metaphysicists see the relevance of this. Fractals are part of the hidden math and geometry of our universe, it allows us to exist on a subatomic level, and at the macroscopic level, it is our path of growth and evolution. It opens up so many possibilities.

Evolution: Not a creationist debate, just a fancy word for growth. Everything strives for this growth. Be it physical, spiritual, or mental, or simply improving ones mood, everything seeks growth. Is it the creativity of the creator, or the path of the creation of a creator? No need to try to answer this and start an argument, the simple existence of the striving for growth is all that is needed to know.

Entropy: Tying everything together by pulling it apart. Entropy is like the missing link of the whole meaning of life debate. Why is life so unfair and filled with suffering? If karma is real why have not the most wicked of us been struck down? Evil seems to outweigh good on such a large scale, it boggles the mind that ponders god's reasoning. But entropy is the natural order of the universe, entropy exists before order. Entropy is so strong yet we have managed to see order emerge despite it. When we think of animals eating one another we just think that is nature, not that is evil. Evil is the natural way of the universe, as is entropy. Without entropy we would be back to square one, this state of stagnant perfection. So by maxing out entropy god can create the infinitely slow start of the universe that allows the asymptote of evolution to reach out and touch perfection, but never truly achieve it. This is the most advanced form of perfection and bliss, and the reason for our immeasurable suffering and evil despite god's supposed desire for us to be good and grow and exist in order as one.

Combining these elements I assume the meaning of life is the creation of an existence in which infinite, exponential, evolution and bliss can be achieved by sacrificing immediate perfection and true oneness as god in the now, but still allowing its existence in the past, present, and future.

I don't seek to solve every single piece of our infinite universe or argue about beliefs. I can't say if life is real, a hologram, or a hallucination. In this model I feel there is room for anyone's belief to be relevant or true, it is just an attempt to figure out the general meaning, nothing specific. God could always exist, or it could never exist. We could be fractals of god, or god could be the master of us controlling everything through fate.

So there it is, my answer to this impossible question, grade my paper as you see fit. I hope my thoughts will at the very least inspire someone else to solve the question themselves.

right so whats next on the to do list

reply to post by MemeticHarvest


I think the meaning of life is whatever meaning to choose to give it. That's our greatest gift as a species - ascribing and detracting meaning. We can find something that has absolutely no purpose and give it a purpose, or find something that has every reason to mean something and tear it down until it has no meaning at all.

So we have the power to give ourselves a meaning. Why does there have to be an automatic purpose? Make one for yourself. Discover that power of creation, and go with it!

reply to post by MemeticHarvest


I'm not qualified to comment BUT I will anyway: what you say IS true and I think there is still MORE to the recipe of the meaning of life. Let’s ask the question which life are you referring to? This temporary physical life or the AFTERLIFE? The only meaning I take from life is to know my place as the created NOT the creator and yet I take creature comfort that my creator is a loving, caring, concerned personality and made me to SHARE life with Him. I suffered but He also suffered too. The meaning of life is to enjoy simple beauty and overcome fear and doubt no matter what container you find the information in.

Simplify the problem to a one word answer : what is the meaning of life? : RELATIONSHIPS!

I like your explanation OP. For me my goal is to just leave this life with something that can benefit others. Whether its projects related to my career where I improve lives of others, or something intangible such as raising great kids so they grow up to be better than the person I ever was. Relationships are also very important, just being a positive person around you can cause a butterfly effect and positively affect the people you know.

Meaning of life is to live it, we can play any role we want whether it's a villain or a hero. Like dark knight rises quotes: "batman is in all of us"

reply to post by MemeticHarvest

Meaning of life solved? You decide!

The fundamentals I am using are: Fractals, analogy, evolution, entropy, and simple math

You're looking everywhere EXCEPT the only place you can look. Nature.

When we look at all the living things in nature and ask, What is the meaning of life, the answer is right in our faces, but most of us refuse to accept it. Every living thing is born to multiply and die. From microorganisms to great whales, from moss to Sequoias, the goal is to survive long enough to fill the planet with our species. Some species win, some lose. That's all.

reply to post by MemeticHarvest

Originally posted by MemeticHarvest
A simple analogy. This section can be skipped for those in a hurry
How do you discover the meaning of something? By looking at its parts.

"Meaning" involves two. When there is only one there can be no meaning.

People can say "water" exists for "life" to survive; "sun" exist for "life" to "stay warm".

Since meaning depends on one thing being dependent on another, how can one say that there is a meaning for existence?

The only thing beyond existence is non-existence so there is nothing to depend on outside of it and therefore there can be no meaning - and any meaning given is made up from WITHIN existence.

Originally posted by MemeticHarvest
A reason for the season. Imagine god existing in perfection for all eternity. To a scientist this would be like a hell. No room for creativity, no room for improvement, no room for competition, no room for solving anything.

Why would it be hell? Perfection doesn't mean no creativity. Perfection can keep changing and changing (but even then people would call it 'better' or 'worse' and give the illusion that it isn't perfect). Without competition there is peace and harmony. No need to 'improve' since all would be perfect so there cannot be 'unworthiness'. No room for problem solving because there is a perfect answer.Doesn't sound like hell to me. It depends on your perspective.

Originally posted by MemeticHarvest
But this is the hidden goal right? Perfection? Or is it possible to experience infinite creativity and improvement.

If God is perfect then there cannot be a goal because perfection would make all things perfect. Imperfection would only be an illusion.

Infinite "improvement". That will leave people always feeling unsatisfied. "improvement" means "I'm not good enough so I must become more". It is a thought - a judgment.

Originally posted by MemeticHarvest
his exists mathematically, I am no genius so I will use a simple asymptote to explain. This is a graph which has a large slow growing base that increases its rate of growth faster and faster as it approaches infinity, yet never truly reaches infinity. It is a simple way to imagine an existence of constant exponential improvement which requires a relatively infinitely slow start.

An omnipresent God cannot "expand" (grow - go faster). If it is already everywhere there is no where else for it to "expand" to.

Originally posted by MemeticHarvest
the simple existence of the striving for growth is all that is needed to know.

Evolution is not about "striving" for growth. "Striving" does not have to happen. The appropriate changes happens naturally. A female will choose the strongest male to have an offspring with, this is just a natural attraction - no striving - but in terms of evolution it is good for the future generation to be more about to protect itself.

Originally posted by MemeticHarvest

Why is life so unfair and filled with suffering? If karma is real why have not the most wicked of us been struck down? Evil seems to outweigh good on such a large scale, it boggles the mind that ponders god's reasoning.

Unless you realize that God is omnipresent between the moments of 'pain' and 'suffering' there are moments of peace - if not happiness. Pain and suffering happens momentarily, the mind keeps thinking about "that time which is not still here" and keeps feeling the pain over and over again in its thoughts.

Originally posted by MemeticHarvest
Evil is the natural way of the universe, as is entropy. Without entropy we would be back to square one, this state of stagnant perfection. So by maxing out entropy god can create the infinitely slow start of the universe that allows the asymptote of evolution to reach out and touch perfection, but never truly achieve it. This is the most advanced form of perfection and bliss, and the reason for our immeasurable suffering and evil despite god's supposed desire for us to be good and grow and exist in order as one.

But living in such a way will not allow one to feel their perfect. Striving for more and more says "I'm not good enough". All may be perfect but some do not realize it - and even their 'striving' is ok. I am just pointing out what it implies.

Originally posted by MemeticHarvest
I don't seek to solve every single piece of our infinite universe or argue about beliefs. I can't say if life is real, a hologram, or a hallucination. In this model I feel there is room for anyone's belief to be relevant or true

Whether the 'reality' is a hologram or hallucination, there's one thing we can be 100% certain about and cannot deny: "I AM", because if you were not there would be no you to read the replies in this thread!

reply to post by MemeticHarvest


You are close to it, maybe more than you know. You have described this quote:

Gospel of the Nazarenes (Lection 88)

12. For by involution and evolution shall the salvation of all the world be accomplished: by the Descent of Spirit into matter, and the Ascent of matter into Spirit through the ages.

Involution and Evolution is Baptism and Rising to New Life

The point is fellowship and fellowship is founded on love. All forms of love are accurate to fellowship, yet all that exists has opposites. The meaning of life is to discover Good and Evil in the mirror. For instance, Fear and Courage are two sides of one thing. How do you stop being afraid? Have courage. Love and hate are similar. All of life is a discovery for one reason. That reason is the Instructional Design of Truth.

The Word EMET is Truth in Hebrew. Spell it with three letters. Aleph MEM Tav. Alpha and Omega are the first and last. Aleph and Tav are the first and last in the Hebrew alphabet. MEM is the middle and is the pictograph of water. Water is the Jordan. Egypt is the refinery. We are here to cross over, but the image contains the answers describing God. In this view, consider God a Verb and not a Noun. To be a noun, we simply see God as the whole.

Take some time and read my posts from yesterday (May 23). All of what I seem to relate is founded on the day before. Today rides the wave from yesterday. You might enjoy what you read. My threads do the same type of progression and related topics are easy to find.

Loved your thread topic. Star and Flag.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I feel like your explanation doesn't leave much room for creative destiny. Like it closes the future in an iron prison that either we fulfill or we die trying to rebel against. Like we don't have a choice in what we are able to accomplish.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MemeticHarvest

 

I think the meaning of life is whatever meaning to choose to give it. That's our greatest gift as a species - ascribing and detracting meaning. We can find something that has absolutely no purpose and give it a purpose, or find something that has every reason to mean something and tear it down until it has no meaning at all.

So we have the power to give ourselves a meaning. Why does there have to be an automatic purpose? Make one for yourself. Discover that power of creation, and go with it!

I actually like this idea. Meaning is in the eyes of the beholder, I guess.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I feel like your explanation doesn't leave much room for creative destiny. Like it closes the future in an iron prison that either we fulfill or we die trying to rebel against. Like we don't have a choice in what we are able to accomplish.

Good. You see the key. Why is law there in the first place? Who does it regulate? If you fulfill the law, is it binding to you? Are you restricted by the law? Then remove it. What possibilities expand if the law is removed? Break the law and it breaks you (No creativity). Fulfill the law and you are free (Unlimited).

I always thought the answer to life the universe and everything was "42".
That is what Douglas Adams told me and the rest of the world

reply to post by MemeticHarvest


You are so close to realizing what it is all about all you need to add is that our consciousness IS God. The Universe is consciousness (God) we can create whatever we want with our thoughts, we are simply a small unit of a mass consciousness.

I like to believe the meaning of life is actually escaping the dull repetition of it. Honestly, who wants to live forever? If you had concrete proof that you had a past life, then you would certainly know you'd have another one after this.

When does it all stop? I used to think it'd stop for everyone simultaneously, but then again, everyone experiences life in their own way so maybe we all reach that ultimate pinnacle individually.

Trying to figure out what draws the soul back to Earth 60-100 years at a time is a mystery, the only reason I'd return would be because of some unfinished business. If that were the case, it's unfortunate that it's lost with the times, good and bad, growing pains, friends and loved ones. The soul cares for earthly matters once again... but from a personal point of view and not the one it began with.

Also S+F

Originally posted by mrdeadfolx
I like to believe the meaning of life is actually escaping the dull repetition of it. Honestly, who wants to live forever? If you had concrete proof that you had a past life, then you would certainly know you'd have another one after this.

When does it all stop? I used to think it'd stop for everyone simultaneously, but then again, everyone experiences life in their own way so maybe we all reach that ultimate pinnacle individually.

Trying to figure out what draws the soul back to Earth 60-100 years at a time is a mystery, the only reason I'd return would be because of some unfinished business. If that were the case, it's unfortunate that it's lost with the times, good and bad, growing pains, friends and loved ones. The soul cares for earthly matters once again... but from a personal point of view and not the one it began with.

Also S+F

edit on 24-5-2013 by mrdeadfolx because: (no reason given)

Have you ever seen any thing repeat? Not even two snowflakes have been found the same.
The mind has an idea that it is all the same but the appearance never repeats.

This will never end because this never began - it has always be.

A simple analogy. This section can be skipped for those in a hurry
How do you discover the meaning of something? By looking at its parts. Do you need to see every part to be sure of its meaning? Not necessarily. Imagine an alien race finding an old human car and trying to figure out its meaning. They wouldn't need to know about the catalytic converter to figure this out, although the more parts you can identify the more sure you can be. It's easy to tell a car is meant for carrying passengers quickly across a flat surface, just by identifying its wheels, its engine, and its seats.

reply to post by MemeticHarvest


Analogies, increasingly, I am finding, can lead you far astray by seeming to make perfect sense, when they really don't apply. I find this to be true here. You are leading us to a non sequitoit, logically. In other words, the logical conclusions do not follow your previous assertions, if they are even true.

If I were such an alien, as I have stated before, if you don't really know where or what you are, you cannot even hope to identify what an "alien" is. In fact, you may find at some point this is what you are.....
It may be easy to see what the car is intended for by the way it operates, but anyone with any science background would want to know how it worked, for that would reassert its purpose. For the apparent purpose, would never ever be trustworthy just by its appearance.....so yes, the catalytic converter, at some point in any intelligent analysis would be an important factor of how and why ......this is a factor, and proof of anthropology, and how anthropological discoveries, when dug up, how and why people lived the way they did and how and what defined their social habits and why.......

In other words. in the book, "The Source," by James Mitchum, it was assumed that a montheic society based on a singular God came out of the humanitarian biological need to raise crops and stay in one place, over a nomadic lifestyle, in favor of the survival of the babies the women, who were the gatherers, rather than the hunters following the herds of meat bearing animals (the men) staying in place, with their children, and raising crops.....because this favored, functionally, being able to care for and feed a child who would survive, rather than moving camp to cave to chase a carniverous mission to survive......

A reason for the season. Imagine god existing in perfection for all eternity.

Interesting, because I started my answer to you long before I got to your phrase a "reason for a season." And I have just spoken to that, so evidently, we are on the same wavelength with your OP. As to perfection. and God, and perfection.....I see this as having absolutely nothing at all to do with eternity or the necessities for survival. In fact, the search for perfection is antithetical to survival. Competition and perfection correlate directly with destruction, not survival. And no God EVER asked of humanity either. These are completely human considerations, and completely destructive to us. IMHO.

But this is the hidden goal right? Perfection? Or is it possible to experience infinite creativity and improvement. This exists mathematically, I am no genius so I will use a simple asymptote to explain.

Evidently, I will argue this as long as I am alive till I am....well, not able to argue any longer, for I will never be blue in the face, so will not use this cliche to express my frustration with this thought process.

Why is it people think so highly and almost religiously of mathematics. This is only a representative language of numbers rather than letters, just as any other human equated and born language....no more and no less. In a sense, it becomes disturbing. It is part of why few can get their head around why God would have caused the first flood....it just doesn't add up numerically. If you look at humanity, behaviour and belief from this perspecrtive, I think you will find that absolutely NOTHING ADDS UP. Because after all, they are numbers, not human behaviour, impossible, almost to represent with numerical values......Belief, behavior, and numbers have almost absolutely nothing to do with one another, any more than catalytic converters and the pursuit of perfection.

LINKLINK

A fractal is an object or quantity that displays self-similarity, in a somewhat technical sense, on all scales. The object need not exhibit exactly the same structure at all scales, but the same "type" of structures must appear on all scales. A plot of the quantity on a log-log graph versus scale then gives a straight line, whose slope is said to be the fractal dimension. The prototypical example for a fractal is the length of a coastline measured with different length rulers.

I assume here you are talking about the microcosm of the macrocosm of life. We breathe, as humans, so many breaths in a year, and the planet rotates, surprisngly somewhat accordingly, reflecting this microcosm of the macrocosm.

Entropy:

: a measure of the unavailable energy in a closed thermodynamic system that is also usually considered to be a measure of the system's disorder, that is a property of the system's state, and that varies directly with any reversible change in heat in the system and inversely with the temperature of the system; broadly : the degree of disorder or uncertainty in a system
2
a : the degradation of the matter and energy in the universe to an ultimate state of inert uniformity
b : a process of degradation or running down or a trend to disorder
3
: chaos, disorganization, randomness

Entropy: Tying everything together by pulling it apart. Entropy is like the missing link of the whole meaning of life debate. Why is life so unfair and filled with suffering? If karma is real why have not the most wicked of us been struck down? Evil seems to outweigh good on such a large scale, it boggles the mind that ponders god's reasoning. But entropy is the natural order of the universe, entropy exists before order. Entropy is so strong yet we have managed to see order emerge despite it. When we think of animals eating one another we just think that is nature, not that is evil. Evil is the natural way of the universe, as is entropy.

First. I would argue that this has anything to do with "God's reasoning." Let's just deal with the simplest of the definitions: the degree of uncertainty or disorder within a system.
This has neither a good nor evil value. It just is what it is. And what is may have to do with God's reasoning , if anything at all, is the thing we have to understand and conquer for survival. But I am not even so sure of that, for I find fault with your idea, inherent within, that God set this all up for us, and intended it to be so.....
Did we not choose what we call free will? And would that not have been the moment that entropy became a factor, and was then set in motion? Enropy is simply a factor, like weather.....not a judgement, nor an evaluation, as evil....and therefore, I do not agree that evil is the "natural way" of the universe. It may guarantee a better survival rate on one hand: i.e., the man who pulls a gun on me to rob me, because this evil is on his mind and not mine, has the advantage, obviously. However, if you put so many like minded people as the one who would rob you of what is yours by right and earning together on a ship, and send them into space, once they run out of food, or entertainment, even, who and how many will survive after so long a time? Do you see my point? I don't agree that evil or entropy are necessarily a natural or planned state to foment growth which is what I assume you mean here. In fact, both of them, and perfection, competition for survival, which has to do with evolution, as you describe it (growth), natural selection, whatever you wish to call it, probably have very little to do with God.

Combining these elements I assume the meaning of life is the creation of an existence in which infinite, exponential, evolution and bliss can be achieved by sacrificing immediate perfection and true oneness as god in the now, but still allowing its existence in the past, present, and future.

I am not sure what this means, to be frank. I don't want oneness with anything....do you, really? Do you want to be a complete copy of something and perceive this is necessary for peace, love, contentment? If so, I find this the most sad and disheartening thing I read on this website daily. I would be bored to tears with someone just like me......

What happened to tolerance. You see, I don't really believe there is true randomness, and think our challenge is more along the lines of diversity, acceptance, tolerance. Matter may degrade uniformly, but we have a lot of new science that says that is bullhockey. It may, in fact, fluctuate......dependent upon several factors. And none of them have to do with perfection, or really randomness. This knowledge has just been hidden for a very long time, so that we could be convinced we must be only one to get along and promote survival, seek perfection, and settle for nothing less.

Even randomness has a pattern. Therein lies God. We, perhaps, are not meant to know nor see that pattern, but only to accept.....it is called faith. It is called tolerance. It is called not knowing, nor seeing, nor applying science nor numbers, nor anything we have an understanding to, really........


when you truly love, do you consciously choose, or does the heart, the core of you, without consulting your consciousness, whatsoever. This, I think, and accepting it, without rhyme, reason or science, but instead, with tolerance, acceptance and faith is our challenge.

SnF. Love your thinking and elucidating, despite I have basic disagreements. Thanks for stimulating my mind and sharing your thoughts so well.
Tetra50

reply to post by billdadobbie


Thanks, I suppose we just keep doing what we are doing and in a few forevers we should be closer to our goals, just my opinion though

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Thank you, I'm not sure if your saying there is no right answer or the is no wrong answer. I'm assuming it is somewhere in the middle. What gives your life meaning?
Is having meaning supposed make you happy? I find meaning through competitive strategy games with my friends and spending time with my love, who has since left me. These bring me temporary happiness. I also find meaning through art, raising fish and small animals, philosophizing, and spending time with my family. These things do not bring me happiness, in fact they depress me. I am almost always on the brink of tears and have aspergers, occasionally I am inspired to try to find happiness by kind caring souls, but it is fleeting. I don't mean to go on about my life story, I am just giving you an idea of my perspective to add breadth to your reply if you choose to reply.