Is freedom of speech dead? Activists Rally to Free Adam Kokesh.

reply to post by Helious


Ah yes, Infowars would like you to know one side of this story, but there are other reports that kind of show more of what actually happened...

“F**k the law, smoke it anyway!” Kokesh shouted into the microphone. “Bring it in! Hey, everybody show some love. Make it difficult for the police here.”

Source

I am all for civil disobedience and protest, when it's decent and has a valid point, but this guy is just a loud mouth idiot looking for a fight.

Guess what? You break the law, and you risk arrest. Why should he be exempt from that? Why should his political opinion make him immune to the laws the rest of us have to live by?

If he doesn't like the law where he is, he has choices... he can leave and move to somewhere where he appreciates the laws of the state or city, or he can campaign WITHIN REASON to have the changed, gathering public support for the change, or he can STFU and get some perspective and move on with more important things than whether he can stoned out of his head in a public park or not

As I said before, he seems to be a loud-mouth attention seeker and nothing more. Kind of like Michael Moore, but at least that guy had some more relevant points about American culture while this guy just wants the right to get high.

reply to post by Rocker2013

What law did he broke then? He wasn't even arrested for anything that would relate to that.

I've never met anyone who was pro-marijuana and pro-guns, as Kokesh claims to be, unless it was a drug dealer.

Was he misrepresenting himself at the pot rally, or will he be misrepresenting himself at the gun rally?

He announces that he's going to march on DC with guns, to give police plenty of time to get ready for him. Then, instead of keeping a low profile until that march, he manages to get himself arrested at a rally that's completely across the political spectrum from what he plans on doing later.

There is manipulation going on here.

reply to post by Snsoc


On the subject of guns, the problem America faces isn't about the guns so much as it is about mental health. While I personally believe it was a silly idea to make guns available to all and sundry to begin with (things were only ever going to escalate), I support the right of the individual to have their own gun if they choose to, and if there is nothing in their medical history to suggest that they might be inclined to misuse it.

Kokesh may have been sounding off and looking for a fight, he may not. I wasn't there, I can't pass judgement. But if all he did was SPEAK, then they have no right to arrest him.

It is possible to support the individual's right to use marijuana and the individual's right to own a gun. Isn't that the whole point of libertarianism? I'm not a drug dealer myself. But I do think people should be allowed to smoke what they want and possess what they want, provided they do no harm to others.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
reply to post by Helious

 

Ah yes, Infowars would like you to know one side of this story, but there are other reports that kind of show more of what actually happened...

“F**k the law, smoke it anyway!” Kokesh shouted into the microphone. “Bring it in! Hey, everybody show some love. Make it difficult for the police here.”

Source

I am all for civil disobedience and protest, when it's decent and has a valid point, but this guy is just a loud mouth idiot looking for a fight.

Guess what? You break the law, and you risk arrest. Why should he be exempt from that? Why should his political opinion make him immune to the laws the rest of us have to live by?

If he doesn't like the law where he is, he has choices... he can leave and move to somewhere where he appreciates the laws of the state or city, or he can campaign WITHIN REASON to have the changed, gathering public support for the change, or he can STFU and get some perspective and move on with more important things than whether he can stoned out of his head in a public park or not

As I said before, he seems to be a loud-mouth attention seeker and nothing more. Kind of like Michael Moore, but at least that guy had some more relevant points about American culture while this guy just wants the right to get high.

Nobody left any of that out, you can clearly hear his speech in the videos that were presented. You see, the key word there is "speech". We have no cause to make anything easy for law enforcement, they do not make things easy for us. He was committing no crime, he was not even actively demonstrating civil disobedience, he was speaking.

If speech alone is a crime, why hasn't members of the Westboro Baptist Church been arrested yet? Because speech, no matter how vile, disgusting and hateful is not a crime, what does seem to be a crime as of now in America is speech when it involves political dissent. That my friend is scary stuff.

Kokesh is outspoken, he can sometimes be obnoxious and you may not agree with everything he says but he is an American citizen, he served the armed forces and was a respected host for RT news and has integrity. Further more, while I don't agree with everything he says I understand that he loves freedom, loves liberty and has a passion for the Constitution. He has a right to speech, unmolested and without threat of arrest and harm because of his political ideals. He is not a terrorist.

His rights were violated in my opinion, it's painfully obvious and if his rights were violated in front of hundreds of supporters in broad day light and with the government knowing he has tens of thousands of followers. What do you think they are willing and able to do to the average American citizen for their dissent?

Originally posted by Snsoc
I've never met anyone who was pro-marijuana and pro-guns, as Kokesh claims to be, unless it was a drug dealer.

Was he misrepresenting himself at the pot rally, or will he be misrepresenting himself at the gun rally?

He announces that he's going to march on DC with guns, to give police plenty of time to get ready for him. Then, instead of keeping a low profile until that march, he manages to get himself arrested at a rally that's completely across the political spectrum from what he plans on doing later.

There is manipulation going on here.

No manipulation here. Libertarianism preaches strict adherence to the constitution with an emphasis on personal rights and responsibilities. As long as the user is not infringing upon anyone else in their right to life and liberty, then the government has no authority to legislate what a person chooses to put into his or her own body.

I've met plenty of people who are pro-second amendment and pro-decriminalization who are not drug dealers, myself included. It is part of the libertarian doctrine. Ron Paul is infamous for his stance on decriminalizing drugs while also being an avid supporter of the second amendment.

The state governing what an individual does with their own body would seem to me to be more of a liberal ideology.

Smoking pot and shooting guns is the American way. It's one of the most libertarian stances out there.

Originally posted by Metatronin
Smoking pot and shooting guns is the American way. It's one of the most libertarian stances out there.

Just as long as you're not doing 'em both at the same time.

On September 2, 2008, Kokesh spoke at Representative Ron Paul's Rally for the Republic in St. Paul, Minnesota, where he stated, "While it is our responsibility now to resist tyranny civilly, while we still can, there may come a time when we will say to the powers that be, be it with your blood or ours we have come to water the tree of liberty … who will stand with me?"

Seems like a threat to me. And how about his father?

Charles Kokesh.



investing.businessweek.com...

Dakota Arms, Inc.
Mr. Charles R. Kokesh
Chief Executive Officer

bulletin.accurateshooter.com...

Remington Arms Company, Inc. through its fully owned subsidiary DA Acquisitions LLC, has entered into a purchase agreement to acquire certain assets of Dakota Arms, LLC including the Dakota, Nesika Bay Precision, Miller Arms, and Dan Walter brands. The transaction closed on June 5, 2009. This is the latest major acquisition by Remington Arms, which acquired Bushmaster Firearms, Marlin Firearms, and DPMS in 2007. Remington Arms is owned by Cerberus Capital Management, a private holding company. The acquisition of Dakota Arms is another example of the increasing consolidation of the American gun industry. Dakota Arms had suffered from over-ambitious growth plans and its revenues failed to meet investors’ expectations as Dakota never really developed a strong customer-base for its premium hunting rifles. Dakota tried to become the “Lexus/Mercedes” of the rifle market, but the plan didn’t work. Dakota’s rifles were much more expensive than Remington or Browning products, yet lacked the accuracy and craftsmanship of the high-grade, true custom rifles. “Factory rifles at custom rifle prices” was not a good business model. Established in 1982 and headquartered in Sturgis, South Dakota, Dakota Arms manufacturers custom and semi-custom rifles for the sporting markets. The Dakota brands include Nesika, Miller Arms and Dan Walter. Nesika Bay Precision actions (at one time) were highly respected for their engineering and build quality; Miller Arms is known for the reliability and performance of its single-shot actions and custom rifles. Dakota Arms is based in the Black Hills of South Dakota and currently employs 35 people. “I am pleased to announce that Dakota Arms is joining Remington and the Freedom Group of companies,” stated Ted Torbeck, CEO of Remington Arms Company, Inc. and Freedom Group Inc. “Dakota Arms is an icon within the industry and its fine products exemplify quality, craftsmanship and attention to detail. Dakota is the perfect compliment to our industry-leading family of brands. We look forward to continue to develop and expand the Dakota brand and thank all its employees for their continued dedication and success of Dakota Arms.”

www.sec.gov...

U.S. SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION Litigation Release No. 21264 / October 28, 2009 United States Securities Exchange Commission v. Charles R. Kokesh Civil Action No. 6:09-cv-1021 (D.N.M.) (October 27, 2009) SEC Charges New Mexico Man with Misappropriating $45 Million Dollars On October 27, 2009, the Securities and Exchange Commission (“Commission”) filed a civil injunctive action against Charles R. Kokesh for his role in defrauding at least 21,000 investors in four business development companies (“BDCs”) through a variety of schemes and contrivances. The Commission’s complaint alleges that: From at least 1995 through July 2007, Kokesh controlled two now-defunct Commission-registered investment-adviser firms (the “Advisers”), which in turn controlled and provided investment advice to the BDCs. Acting by and through the Advisers, Kokesh misappropriated approximately $45 million of investor funds by causing the BDCs to pay illegal distributions, performance fees, and expense reimbursements to the Advisers. To conceal the scheme, Kokesh caused the Advisers to distribute misleading proxy statements to BDC investors and to file false Commission reports on behalf of the BDCs. The Commission’s complaint, filed in United States District Court in New Mexico, alleges that Kokesh violated Section 37, or in the alternative Section 57, of the Investment Company Act, and aided and abetted violations of Sections 13(a) and 14(a) of the Exchange Act and Rules 12b-20, 13a-1, 13a-13, and 14a-9 thereunder, and Sections 205, 206(1) and 206(2) of the Investment Advisers Act. The Commission seeks a permanent injunction against further violations of the securities laws, disgorgement plus prejudgment interest, and civil money penalties.

reply to post by JBA2848

"While it is our responsibility now to resist tyranny civilly, while we still can, there may come a time when we will say to the powers that be, be it with your blood or ours we have come to water the tree of liberty … who will stand with me?"

Not a threat as he is speaking in hypothetical terms, and how does Adam's father's have any bearing over what happened in Philadelphia? What's your point in dragging his name through the mud?

We need more rabble-rousers like Adam Kokesh.

reply to post by DirtyD


So we need more people who work for the Russian Propaganda Agency? RT Russia Today. I think people need to learn more about him and his family. His father stealing 45 million dollars and the son was living with him when he was child so he was raised off of stolen money.

reply to post by JBA2848

So we need more people who work for the Russian Propaganda Agency? RT Russia Today.

Are you suggesting his speech be censored due to previous employment? How is RT any more a propaganda agency than other news outlets here in the states. Should Anderson Cooper, Sean Hannity, and Chris Matthews also be restrained from speaking in public?

His father stealing 45 million dollars and the son was living with him when he was child so he was raised off of stolen money.

How is Adam responsible for this? I doubt he had any say in or knowledge of his father's illicit activities. Until you can show otherwise it's a moot point.

Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by DirtyD

 

So we need more people who work for the Russian Propaganda Agency? RT Russia Today. I think people need to learn more about him and his family. His father stealing 45 million dollars and the son was living with him when he was child so he was raised off of stolen money.

edit on 21-5-2013 by JBA2848 because: (no reason given)

First of all, RT news is the least of your worries about now if you happen to be American. RT carries more respect and integrity then most American MSM outlets although they are still biased and present spin. The point is moot though because it has absolutely no bearing on this thread topic or the conversation at hand.

Attacking Adams father for his mistakes or claiming because he grew up on money his father may have stole is completely irrelevant and a deflection of what has happened in Philadelphia.

It doesn't matter who this happened to. It doesn't matter that it's Adam Kokesh. What matters is that it happened and that is what needs to be addressed, brought to light in all possible ways and examined. The incident of arrest, the claim to have cause and the likely possibility that Constitutional rights were blatantly disregarded in an openly public and aggressive fashion most probably to make a statement and inspire intimidation and trepidation to those who would also speak out.

I have no desire to defend Adam Kokesh as it pertains to his personal views, political ideology or the misdeeds of his father. What I have a strong desire for is to find out and explore the truth about how far off the path our government is and if it is now acceptable to kidnap American citizens without appropriate reason and then claim that their character is enough of a reason to do so and then levy false charges.

The issue here is the government officials that authorized and executed this action. Whether it was justified and what the implications are for all of us if it is not. That is whats important to understand and talk about.

reply to post by CuriousAchilles


Well, if we're going to allow them to deny gun ownership on a history of mental illness, it won't belong before they start pre-cogging future mental illness based on marginal behaviors displayed now. We're going to have to be reallllllllllllly clear as to what a mental health issue is and isn't, and guard that fiercely.

Will distrust of government be branded as mental illness?

Belief in conspiracy theories?
Christianity?
Constitutionalism?
"Intolerance?"

reply to post by DirtyD


I didn't know that; thanks for the clarification!

www.activistpost.com...

"Your megaphone might be a weapon," says the arresting officer to liberty activist and former Marine Kyle Prouty when he asked why he was being detained

Five members of The Panic Hour were followed into the City Hall rail station in Center City Philadelphia after attending an arraignment hearing for Adam Kokesh and Nikki Allen Poe who were kidnapped from a peaceful *********** rally on 5/18/13

The video was on live leak showing the subway arrest.

www.liveleak.com...

This is just more proof that non violence will work in removing the corruption.

Enough is enough

reply to post by 727Sky


I've seen some dumb crap from the boys in blue that just leaves me speechless. She could just as well arrest someone for being pretty and believing in unicorns and rainbows.

reply to post by Snsoc


All I know is, I'm glad I live in a country where guns are nowhere near as prolific and easy to get hold of as they are in America.

I suffer from mental illness. 95% of the time I'm stable. If I owned a gun, though, that other 5% could easily result in people getting hurt / killed.

I agree that too many things are now classified as mental illnesses, and the whole approach to psychiatric diagnosis needs to be scaled back (I have difficulty swallowing the concept of ADHD, but perhaps that's because I have no direct experience of it) - but I reiterate that the problem America has with guns isn't the guns themselves, it is the poor mental health of a few people that own them.

reply to post by 727Sky


The video offers no context or documentation of exactly what caused them to draw the attention of the SEPTA Police.

The video also fails to document any initial interaction between that group of people and the SEPTA Police because they either didn't film it or conveniently edited that footage out. If you had take the time to look a little deeper you would discover that the individual detained and his associates seem to love to film with their smartphones. Based on that and noting the push by many to document their interactions with law enforcement, it seems odd to assume that not one person in the group began filming when they first gained the attention of SEPTA Police.

All that the video presents is a to-do about standing on/near the yellow caution line on the platform and a male being detained; that's strange.

The video does include what sounds like the most annoying girl on the planet; her awful voice screaming had me rooting for her to be arrested which sadly didn't happen.



Bottom-line:
The video provides absolutely no evidence of the "the Nazi police state" many allege.

It's important to look at things like the Kokesh arrest from a big picture perspective and not from inside the bubble because it allows one to understand that Kokesh has little to no public recognition and only a niche subset of the movement even know who he is. I know that might be hard for you to read, but it is a fact. When you wake up to that fact and then note that Kokesh's arrest got little to no coverage in the Philly media, it becomes clear that there is no great conspiracy involving three different police agencies (Philly Police, SEPTA Police, Bureau of Prisons Police) to arrest someone who attended a court hearing at a SEPTA station afterwards.

There are fights worth fighting for, but trying to draw outrage with stories like this which completely lacks any sort of context is detrimental because when there is a similar incident with actual evidence, something that should draw outrage from the masses, it will fall on deaf ears because people will be so tired of these fact-free stories that they'll tune them out completely.
;
Choose your battles intelligently; and if this is a battle worth fighting for, share the whole video and paint a picture of what occurred before that most-annoying girl started yelling like a crazy person...