Socialism is the best ideology

Remove competitiveness from human nature and subvert natural selection and survival of the fittest overturn the paradigm of Darwinism and build a society on passivity and selflessness.

The next revolution (a passive aggressive revolution) needs to be against human nature.

reply to post by fadedface


Hmm... I wonder can you tell me who is making those decisions on what to produce? How about who decides whats in the "best interest" of the working class? How about those who can not work? How about those that will not work? The you get what you put in concept is very darwinistic if you ask me.

I will recommend some reading to you as well ...... Atlas Shrugged.

I will repeat.......There is always a ruling class and the proletariat beneath them

reply to post by oonkala


Go and read about free association or as Marx called it community of freely associated individuals to answer your questions.

"Once private property is abolished, individuals are no longer deprived of access to means of production enabling them to freely associate (without social constraint) to produce and reproduce their own conditions of existence and fulfill their individual and creative needs and desires."

"The free association represents a coordinating entity for economic activity that is concerned with administrative decision-making and the flow of goods and services to satisfy demand"

Before you start denigrating communism with your greedy capitalistic fervour you should actually read up on some Communist theory.

No more capitalist pigs contributing to this thread please I've got nothing to say to your sort.

"The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them in parliament."

Vladimir Lenin

reply to post by fadedface


Sweetheart, I have. And if all you got is to resort to name calling......I will kindly call it a day. Have a fantastic weekend!

Anyone who advocates capitalism is the supporter and complicit in perpetrating (possibly unwittingly but I doubt it) privilege, poverty, inequality and intolerance.

If Socialism can only be realized when the intellectual development of all the people permits it, then we shall not see Socialism for at least five hundred years.
Vladimir Lenin

reply to post by fadedface


The minute, no, the very second Socialism takes over, it fails right then and there. The people in POWER, where do they live as opposed to the common people? Do they eat the finest steak while everyone else eats Spam? Who controls the leaders?

Why should scientists and doctors strive to find cures when they get the same of everything as everyone else? In manufacturing, where is the incentive to create quality products. Answer: fear. Fear of those in power.

Total fail.

Originally posted by fadedface
'The only alternative to socialism is barbarism' Karl Marx

Socialism is the fairest and most equal political ideology where wealth is evenly distributed through all levels of society and the means of production is cooperatively organised and run by the working class. Trade and manufacture are based on necessity and everyone is designated a job based on their abilities and capabilities. All industry is owned by the 'State' and constitutes a nationalised publicly owned body which encompasses everything from high tech mechanized industry to service and goods and food outlets. In this scenario private commerce and ownership as well as free enterprise and entrepreneurialism will be abolished. The socialist state system will based on equality there will be no competition and no winners or losers and no class divisions.

This socialist society will eventually transition to full communism which in its purest form has never properly existed. I consider many of the derivatives of communism which have existed in the past such as 'Stalinism' to be deliberate subversions of the ideology to discredit it which has led to the simple minded accusation that 'communism doesn't work'. Communism has been corrupted by human hierarchical behaviour whereas capitalism accommodates this and is inherently corrupt because it is based on competition.

Capitalism promotes greed which in turns leads to poverty and inequality the only people who defend capitalism are those who know how to make money and these people always go on about 'how hard they've worked' when in reality they've had the breaks given to them somewhere along the line and begrudge others who haven't been as fortunate as them.

edit on 17-5-2013 by fadedface because: amending

I actually agree with you to an extent. But there is two problems and they have to do with human nature. First is greed there are all ways people who don’t like to share and just amass stuff oh like power and money. Then there’s the other personality type basic laziness if it’s equally shared why work harder why push your self to do a better job go take a nap you’ll get your share anyway. This is the biggest problem communists ran across people doing the minimum and creating sub standard parts. Look we all know that guy that spends more time trying to get out of work then he actually works. This creates very little reason for a person to strive or for that matter show initiative guess what I am trying to say is there will always be people at the top of any system of government but with socialism it guarantees the person isn’t working for you but them.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by fadedface

 

The minute, no, the very second Socialism takes over, it fails right then and there. The people in POWER, where do they live as opposed to the common people? Do they eat the finest steak while everyone else eats Spam? Who controls the leaders?

Why should scientists and doctors strive to find cures when they get the same of everything as everyone else? In manufacturing, where is the incentive to create quality products. Answer: fear. Fear of those in power.

Total fail.

You've obviously never read any socialist and communist theory and just base your opinion on a false perception of the ideology and the capitalist propaganda you've been indoctrinated with. Go back to worshipping rich fascists and don't post in this thread again.

Getting the same thing everyone else gets kills the incentive to work hard and inovate. People end up doing just enough to get by. Why get a hard job that "pays" the same as a easy job. Why study for years to be a doctor, engineer, teacher, scientist; when you get the same as a clerk, janitor, gardener and so on?

Capitalism (not corporatism!) rewards hard work, incentive, and inovation. Before the "welfare state" people worked hard and bettered themselves by getting education, so they could get better jobs. People looked for opportunities and opened businesses. But all the regulations and red tape have made it more and more difficult to do that now. Education cost to much for a lot of people. High schools, colleges, and universities have cut back on programs so much it now takes 5, 6, 7, or more years to get a "4" year degree!

reply to post by dragonridr


I blame capitalism for making people lazy by failing to provide adequate sustainable employment which isn't based on market forces. Communism and socialism provides low skilled employment for a large section of the proletariat.

Originally posted by Magister
Capitalism (not corporatism!) rewards hard work, incentive, and inovation. Before the "welfare state" people worked hard and bettered themselves by getting education, so they could get better jobs. People looked for opportunities and opened businesses. But all the regulations and red tape have made it more and more difficult to do that now. Education cost to much for a lot of people. High schools, colleges, and universities have cut back on programs so much it now takes 5, 6, 7, or more years to get a "4" year degree!

You mean middle class and upper class people did this.

Those opportunities where not extended to the working classes.

Originally posted by fadedface
reply to post by oonkala

 

Capitalism condemns those who do not have the competitive edge to survive in the social darwinistic order it imposes on society. Capitalism inherently favours privilege and entrenches class divisions which creates poverty and inequality.

So you can keep your social darwinistic capitalist rhetoric.

And I do believe equality exists in the context of a communist system which propagates a classless society in which decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made in the best interests of the whole of society, a society 'of, by, and for the working class', rather than one in which a rich upper class controls the wealth and everyone else works for the rich on a wage basis.

And you should do some reading about Lenin before you go assuming anything about his character because he was reported to be a modest and unassuming man.

edit on 17-5-2013 by fadedface because: (no reason given)

And socialism pulls people down to the lowest common denominator, discourages innovation and hard work, and will ultimately fail because people are not insects. Why work when the guy next to you who does not work gets the same gruel and Mao jackets you do? As more and more people realize that they get the same regardless off effort and talent, more and more will slide to the taking rather than the producing side and the system will fail and things like scarcity and famine will be the order of the day. Socialism is tenable only to idealistic university students and tenured professors. A lot of other people talk about the miracles of socialism but only to delude the useful idiots into going along with their power seeking schemes.

Lenin was also a murderer. Gotta break some eggs to get the revolution.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
Lenin was also a murderer. Gotta break some eggs to get the revolution.

Can you name any politician who wasn't or isn't?

Didn't bother reading the rest of your post.

Originally posted by fadedface

Originally posted by Magister
Capitalism (not corporatism!) rewards hard work, incentive, and inovation. Before the "welfare state" people worked hard and bettered themselves by getting education, so they could get better jobs. People looked for opportunities and opened businesses. But all the regulations and red tape have made it more and more difficult to do that now. Education cost to much for a lot of people. High schools, colleges, and universities have cut back on programs so much it now takes 5, 6, 7, or more years to get a "4" year degree!

You mean middle class and upper class people did this.

Those opportunities where not extended to the working classes.

Yes they were. Where did you think the middle class came from? Countless factory and farm workers produced children that bettered themselves and became middle and upper classes. Free market capitalism permits one to better himself. Socialism keeps everyone down in mediocracy.

Originally posted by fadedface

Originally posted by NavyDoc
Lenin was also a murderer. Gotta break some eggs to get the revolution.

Can you name any politician who wasn't or isn't?
LOL. So your socialist savior was just another politician now?
Didn't bother reading the rest of your post.

Ah, because you stick your fingers in your ears when you hear things that contradict your delusions?

Originally posted by fadedface
reply to post by dragonridr

 

I blame capitalism for making people lazy by failing to provide adequate sustainable employment which isn't based on market forces. Communism and socialism provides low skilled employment for a large section of the proletariat.

LOL. Five year plans comrade. Let's make more tractors that nobody needs. Command economies create scarcity and starvation.

Originally posted by fadedface

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by fadedface

 

The minute, no, the very second Socialism takes over, it fails right then and there. The people in POWER, where do they live as opposed to the common people? Do they eat the finest steak while everyone else eats Spam? Who controls the leaders?

Why should scientists and doctors strive to find cures when they get the same of everything as everyone else? In manufacturing, where is the incentive to create quality products. Answer: fear. Fear of those in power.

Total fail.

You've obviously never read any socialist and communist theory and just base your opinion on a false perception of the ideology and the capitalist propaganda you've been indoctrinated with. Go back to worshipping rich fascists and don't post in this thread again.

Bull#. I've read all of the books and studied this issue in university more than once. You sir, are the indoctrinated one because you fail to see the lack of logic behind your failed ideology.

Originally posted by Magister
Getting the same thing everyone else gets kills the incentive to work hard and inovate.

Socialism doesn't mean everyone gets exactly the same, just much more similar. So in capitalism were the ceo gets 380x what their average employee is paid - socialists see that the ceo does not work the equivalent of a whole years work in one day and are simply abusing their power to pay themselves more.

As for the innovation you mentioned, the scientists working on cancer cures barely get paid anything compared to the brokers gambling away the 401k's of working families. In capitalism the money motivation is not tied to how much you contribute to society, but rather how much you can take from it!

Also money isn't the only motivator, if it were nobody would volunteer and nobody would work in any career other than the most lucrative one they possibly can.

Why study for years to be a doctor, engineer, teacher, scientist; when you get the same as a clerk, janitor, gardener and so on?

You don't get the same job. You study to become a doctor because you enjoy it and want to help sick people. People who only do it for the money don't make caring doctors anyways so I couldn't care less if they wanna be a janitor.

*wow*



I participated in this thread with all the good intentions of having a rational debate. (I recently got spanked and am trying to behave )

But OP, your reluctance to even pretend to have an impartial debate with those whom disagree with you has left me with a sour taste in my mouth.

Good day, sir. I wish you luck with your thread.

reply to post by NavyDoc


I only want to converse with people who have an understanding of communism and socialism and who don't dismiss it as being only supported by 'students' and 'professors'.

Maybe I should have raised this topic in a forum devoted specifically and entirely to political theory and debate but I was expecting more than the typical ham fisted and clichéd dismissals of socialism and communism here.

Then again I suppose a lot of the people who use this forum are americans and you seem to have some strange love of capitalism. Did you check the homelessness figures in your country lately? Good ol' capitalism eh?