ILLEGITIMATE PASTORS non-accreditation,

Hi there,
I was recently, not too long ago, doing some research on the accrediation of Pastors, and what constitutes a legitimate guide or instructor of Gospel and Scriptures. I was astounded when I discovered that apparently some of these purported Bible colleges and similar teaching institutions actually do not even have legitimate accreditation; I found some basic preliminary information on wikipedia, and I thought to myself how incredibly wrong it is to have Pastors coming out of unaccredited institutions attempting to teach Scriptural ideas to average everyday people. The example that I have in mind revolves around Calvary Chapel, which is apparently somewhat of a large church, albeit certainly not one to which I would think of belonging. Wikipedia states the following about this particular B. College:

Main article: Calvary Chapel Bible College Technically, Calvary Chapel has only one Bible college: Calvary Chapel Bible College (CCBC), located in Murrieta, California. However, this school also has at least 50 affiliated campuses throughout the world.[56] Founded in 1975, it originally offered a "short, intensive study program",[57] but it subsequently became a two-year school which awards Certificates of Completion, Associate in Theology degrees (for high-school graduates), and Bachelor of Biblical Studies degrees (to students who have an Associate of Arts from an approved college).[58] [59] The college as a whole does not have accreditation, but students can transfer CCBC credits to some major accredited colleges such as Azusa Pacific.[citation needed] The college does not seek accreditation,[60] as this allows Calvary Chapel to keep the cost of tuition lower and offer courses taught by pastors who do not have Master's degrees.[61]

Additionally, as stated, this particular college does not seek accreditation, and to me, from a more traditional theological perspective, this seems outright fraudulent. How can a pastor who has merely received a "Certificate of Completion," and not a bona-fide DIPLOMA, call himself someone genuinely studied and learned in the traditions of Gospel?! I started wondering if all of these pastors and instructors were comparably uncertified, and unaccredited, and now I'm actually under the impression that most of these people are probably very limited in their knowledge of traditional Gospel teaching. Can the american government allow this type of instruction from persons having completed studies at these "Unaccredited Colleges..". You don't even understand how absurd this all sounded to me when I first made the inquiry, and now I'm simply believing that most pastors are probably unschooled and untrained for their positions. How shameful.. I'm hoping to here some interesting comments and info. from everyone.
Thanks!


Here is a link to the wikipedia information concerning this particular Bible College: Calvary Chapel.
en.wikipedia.org...


This type of fraudulent or absent accreditation makes me sing conspiracy thoughts as well; especially at this point in time in the u.s.a. when xtians will be seeing all kinds of persecution.

ILLEGITIMATE PASTORS AND NON-ACCREDITATION

As someone who has received an theology degree from an accredited school (biola) and am fimilar with the calvery chapel movement along with their school (I lived down the street from it).

I fail to see the problem with religious organizations choosing how they train their own pastors...


Also I'd like to add which of the apostles where classically trained rabbis in the Jewish faith of the original twelve?

reply to post by tony9802


Who cares about accreditation to teach/preach the gospel? I don't think Peter and Paul had any accredited education.

I seem to remember that its upto the religious organisations to issue titles etc as theres no government control over religion (separation of state and religion) so you can 'create' your own religion tomorrow and grant yourself any title such as "Arch Grand Prelatorian Knight who goes boing boing wibble wibble" and thats it... but getting legal recognition may be a bit harder for tax purposes but anyone can set them selves up and perhaps some people should vet their pastors before giving them a position of power

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by tony9802

 

Who cares about accreditation to teach/preach the gospel? I don't think Peter and Paul had any accredited education.

Who cares about accreditation?? This is absurd.. You have to be someone trained in the understanding of Gospel to preach it properly.. The disciples were exactly that, students of the time, and conveying what they were learning from Their teacher.

I think my problem is that, some pastors totally overlook what is taught and written in Scripture simply to defend their personal ways of living. I will give an example: some (married) pastors, believe anal and oral sex with their wives is okay, and something that Jesus Christ would find acceptable.. Do you agree?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by tony9802

 

Who cares about accreditation to teach/preach the gospel? I don't think Peter and Paul had any accredited education.

There's also the whole letter of the law verses spirit behind it aspect Jesus seemed to despise the Pharisees for.

The bible is very clear on what is needed to run a church, none of which is an accredited degree, the only reason I went to biola over other bible schools was an issue of transferring credits for further education.

I believe some bible "colleges" are very basic non-schools, that give you a little certificate for stopping by for a couple of years. A true School of Theology goes through much more rigorous spiritual training.. in fact requiring it's students, especially those who will chose to minister, to learn numerous spiritual disciplines..

I do not believe Theology is a simple one year two year certificate..

reply to post by tony9802

What matters is where the "accreditation" comes from.
If you're talking about accreditation from some govenment body, that is really beside the point.
What you want, ideally, is accreditation from God.
Failing concrete evidence of that, what would matter is whether major religious communities and religious bodies are prepared to recognise the college and accept the training.
But an official "stamp" from a secular body would be evidence of nothing.

Originally posted by tony9802

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by tony9802

 

Who cares about accreditation to teach/preach the gospel? I don't think Peter and Paul had any accredited education.

Who cares about accreditation?? This is absurd.. You have to be someone trained in the understanding of Gospel to preach it properly.. The disciples were exactly that, students of the time, and conveying what they were learning from Their teacher.

I think my problem is that, some pastors totally overlook what is taught and written in Scripture simply to defend their personal ways of living. I will give an example: some (married) pastors, believe anal and oral sex with their wives is okay, and something that Jesus Christ would find acceptable.. Do you agree?

edit on 17-5-2013 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

(Bride) Awake, O north wind And come, wind of the south Make my garden breathe out fragrance Let its spices be wafted abroad May my beloved come into his garden And eat its choice fruits! (4:16)

You sir, need to read the song of Solomon...

Originally posted by Maxatoria
I seem to remember that its upto the religious organisations to issue titles etc as theres no government control over religion (separation of state and religion) so you can 'create' your own religion tomorrow and grant yourself any title such as "Arch Grand Prelatorian Knight who goes boing boing wibble wibble" and thats it... but getting legal recognition may be a bit harder for tax purposes but anyone can set them selves up and perhaps some people should vet their pastors before giving them a position of power

You are exactly right, anyone, any charlatan or fraudster can totally start up his own church without any type of governance, by the state or any regional authority! This is absurd, and to be honest with you, I think this is the problem with faith in the U.S. Anything goes anytime ever.. Fortunately this is not the case in other countries where doctrinal tradition holds power.. see Sweden, or say for example Germany.

Originally posted by tony9802
I do not believe Theology is a simple one year two year certificate..

edit on 17-5-2013 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-5-2013 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

The first thing you said that I agree with, Even a 4 year, or further into a masters degree does not a pastor make.

It is a life time of dedication and following of Christ, it is learning at his feet daily, it is a life of humility and service, it is a life you have to be called to.

Something that even with my Theology degree I do not feel capable of, no amount of "School" would make that so either.

Originally posted by benrl

Originally posted by tony9802

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by tony9802

 

Who cares about accreditation to teach/preach the gospel? I don't think Peter and Paul had any accredited education.

Who cares about accreditation?? This is absurd.. You have to be someone trained in the understanding of Gospel to preach it properly.. The disciples were exactly that, students of the time, and conveying what they were learning from Their teacher.

I think my problem is that, some pastors totally overlook what is taught and written in Scripture simply to defend their personal ways of living. I will give an example: some (married) pastors, believe anal and oral sex with their wives is okay, and something that Jesus Christ would find acceptable.. Do you agree?

edit on 17-5-2013 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

(Bride) Awake, O north wind And come, wind of the south Make my garden breathe out fragrance Let its spices be wafted abroad May my beloved come into his garden And eat its choice fruits! (4:16)

You sir, need to read the song of Solomon...

What the hell does that mean.. are you saying Sodomy is ok by God?? Wow..Also, Solomon by Catholics and Lutherans would be interpreted in NEW TESTAMENT TERMS, and not in Carnal Ones.. I have a feeling this thread is going to get kind of nasty..

Originally posted by tony9802

Originally posted by benrl

Originally posted by tony9802

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by tony9802

 

Who cares about accreditation to teach/preach the gospel? I don't think Peter and Paul had any accredited education.

Who cares about accreditation?? This is absurd.. You have to be someone trained in the understanding of Gospel to preach it properly.. The disciples were exactly that, students of the time, and conveying what they were learning from Their teacher.

I think my problem is that, some pastors totally overlook what is taught and written in Scripture simply to defend their personal ways of living. I will give an example: some (married) pastors, believe anal and oral sex with their wives is okay, and something that Jesus Christ would find acceptable.. Do you agree?

edit on 17-5-2013 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

(Bride) Awake, O north wind And come, wind of the south Make my garden breathe out fragrance Let its spices be wafted abroad May my beloved come into his garden And eat its choice fruits! (4:16)

You sir, need to read the song of Solomon...

What the hell does that mean.. are you saying Sodomy is ok by God?? Wow..Also, Solomon by Catholics and Lutherans would be interpreted in NEW TESTAMENT TERMS, and not in Carnal Ones.. I have a feeling this thread is going to get kind of nasty..

edit on 17-5-2013 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-5-2013 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.

yea that's a spiritual message not a reference to sex at all...

Catholic and Lutherans are the least theologically accurate of christian sects, I mean if we are talking bible based theology they have the most tenuous of validation for several of their key doctrines.

reply to post by benrl


I am going to make this statement again to see what folks respond. "Some (married) pastors, believe anal and oral sex with their wives is okay, Is that something that Jesus Christ would find acceptable.. Do you agree?


Sodomy is legitimized in scripture for pastors. You tell me.

reply to post by benrl



I will believe you if you are someone who actually reads German or Old German and Latin buddy, the truest of doctrines would then be from Greek Orthodox, and the G. Orthodox very much resemble Catholic doctrine..



Americans aren't particularly monastic.. so what's the point. There's also the song of songs by the way, and some people will interpret those verses as being carnal, whereas spiritually minded doctrines, will interpret them as spiritual.. You're either Eros or Agape.. It's not that difficult to figure those two out and to see the difference between things Holy, and things carnal...

Originally posted by tony9802

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by tony9802

 

Who cares about accreditation to teach/preach the gospel? I don't think Peter and Paul had any accredited education.

Who cares about accreditation?? This is absurd.. You have to be someone trained in the understanding of Gospel to preach it properly.. The disciples were exactly that, students of the time, and conveying what they were learning from Their teacher.

I think my problem is that, some pastors totally overlook what is taught and written in Scripture simply to defend their personal ways of living. I will give an example: some (married) pastors, believe anal and oral sex with their wives is okay, and something that Jesus Christ would find acceptable.. Do you agree?

edit on 17-5-2013 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

Ephesians 4 declares that the offices of pastor, evangelist, prophet, and teachers are gifts of the Holy Spirit. Many of the greatest leaders and pastors of the faith through the centuries didn't rely on academia to feed the sheep, but the gifts and empowerment of the Holy Spirit and the word of God. That's it.

reply to post by DISRAELI



"What would matter is whether major religious communities and religious bodies are prepared to recognise the college and accept the training."THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT AS WELL.. RECOGNITION BY MAJOR COMMUNITIES AND BODIES..

Originally posted by benrl

As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.

yea that's a spiritual message not a reference to sex at all...

The diatribe of the first twenty verses of Ezekiel ch23 is written in such brutally sexual language that it cannot be read out in churches, and yet nobody has any problem understanding it as an allegory about God's relationship with his people.
The Song of Solomon is a more optimistic version of the same thing.
Hold onto your hats, because from next week onwards I'm going to be demonstrating this point by working systematically through the whole book.

reply to post by benrl


"His fruit was sweet to my taste" is a metaphor for fallacio.

Originally posted by tony9802
reply to post by benrl

 

I am going to make this statement again to see what folks respond. "Some (married) pastors, believe anal and oral sex with their wives is okay, Is that something that Jesus Christ would find acceptable.. Do you agree?


Sodomy is legitimized in scripture for pastors. You tell me.

DO you see the promblem with your OP yet? No Ill answer it.

AS someone who IS trained and accredited in Theology at a 4 year university, Who by your definition has the proper education to be a pastor (just chose not to), whose main course of study was Apologetics.

Oral Sex, is fine for a man and women who are married to each other.

There, who are you to question my "training" are you trained as I am? did you go to a "real" school?

You see, the problem with your way of thinking yet?

Anyone can pick up a bible and learn what they need to know to spread the gospel, if it is their calling who are you and I to hinder them from their path? You want them to get a document authorized by the government, you want the rulers of this world to accredit your pastors?

His kingdom is not in this world, and every faithful believer is capable, Pastors are not even in the bible, NO church on this earth follows the ACTS model of the church, period.