The Hundredth Monkey Effect (and/or Group Global Consciousness)

Originally posted by Goldcurrent
reply to post by NorEaster

 

It has only been a relatively short time since humanity has advanced past a tribal state. For generations certain blood types and were congregated in close proximity and co-dependant on survival in certain 'colonies or clans etc.

Now at the risk of coming off as a eugenicist and offending modern science, I could even suggest that humans are different sub-species, with many different collective sub-consciouses. Advancement in intelligence, technologies, travel, has led us to where we are now. Co-mingling of Homo Sapiens is at unprecedented levels, and of course a dis-connect from our base tribal instincts has resulted.

This isn't to say that there is not a remnant of particular tribal instincts among genetically similar groups.


This is all just my theory, but I think science has led us astray somewhat in classifying the human race as all one species. (RH negative blood types for example)

It is not wrong to think like this, if it can lead to a better awareness, and open some of this "junk DNA' to tap into further human development.

Interesting thought. I probably wouldn't go so far as to suggest that the human race isn't one defined species. After all, there aren't any human blood lines that are incapable of procreation with any other blood lines, or if breeding is possible, that the offspring are physically deficient (such as the sterile mule - the result of breeding a horse and a donkey, as is also the case when breeding a dog and a wolf). The truth is that there are always evolutionary adjustments within any species that has the ability to persist over a long stretch of time, and these adjustments don't eliminate established lines or establish new species. It is odd, though, that the entire human species is so uniform in size, shape and general physical-mental construction. No other species is so restricted in variety, but then the history of humankind is pretty unique. Relatively brief and unique.

The influence of culture and ethnicity can often seem like "group think", but it's not the same kind of regimented survival dictate. It's related to survival, but it's not instinctively imposed,

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

The fact that we can even ask these questions - to me - proves how (nearly) miraculous all of this is. But - is it any less wonderful or marvelous without the magic?

So I spent some time thinking about this today....


What are you calling "magic"? The supernatural?

What if things we call "supernatural" are wholly natural, just beyond our ability to understand currently? I mean, there is a lot we know we don't get yet. One of the most fundamental questions behind physics remains unanswered: what causes gravity? Yet because we are all so heavily impacted by it, we cannot consider it supernatural. It is wholly mundane.

But what of other forces that we are less impacted by, know less about? Like where does your consciousness derive? What is it (consciousness)? No one cared about xrays, until they were discovered, afterall.

It is all miraculous. At least to simpletons like you and I (and everyone else). We can't even observe all of it. Understanding it is compeltely hopeless. So instead, we just call it magic.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I heard that a whole island of people was killed because 1000 monkeys learned to use rocks as weapons.

After all, there aren't any human blood lines that are incapable of procreation with any other blood lines, or if breeding is possible, that the offspring are physically deficient (such as the sterile mule - the result of breeding a horse and a donkey, as is also the case when breeding a dog and a wolf).




I was under the impression that before modern medicine, and the RHogam shot, that the majority of RH negative women were unable to procreate with those of a positive blood type. The " mother's immune system would attack Rh-positive blood cells which have entered the maternal blood stream from fetal circulation"

This seems to indicate a degree of incompatible breeding.


Sorry,I can't quote properly yet.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

So I spent some time thinking about this today....

So did I - past few days actually

What are you calling "magic"? The supernatural?

Yeah, pretty much - all of it lumped together. All those things we wonder about or take for granted as being real without really being able to prove they're real

What if things we call "supernatural" are wholly natural, just beyond our ability to understand currently? I mean, there is a lot we know we don't get yet. One of the most fundamental questions behind physics remains unanswered: what causes gravity? Yet because we are all so heavily impacted by it, we cannot consider it supernatural. It is wholly mundane.

I'm afraid my reply is going to be a little boring - sorry you had to wait for it :-)

I agree with you, and I don't think we see things all that differently. What we know now is so much more than what we knew in the past - what will we know tomorrow?

At one time many people thought elephants had psychic abilities. They seemed to communicate things to each other but nobody had any idea how. Now we know they use low frequency sound and pick up seismic vibrations, over long distances - through their feet. How cool is that?

We get attached to our ideas. We romanticize so many things, we love mystery - magic. I do too - I'm an artist. I'm almost incapable of looking at this universe and not seeing mystery, magic, symbolism and meaning in everything. It's everywhere...

Like I said - take any of it - ghosts, ESP - all those things humans suspect and wonder about. Maybe they're the result of fear, fantasy, desire or need - maybe they're all real explainable phenomenon

What do I know?

I've had more than a few experiences in this life that to me are unexplainable - I think we all have. But, whenever I learn how things really work I'm never disappointed. It's still magic - if you know what I mean

You said this in an earlier post:

The problem I have when considering this is that it becomes too easy to mistake what is cause and what is effect. Human consciousness....is it the cause of all these things? Or an effect of them?

I think we're capable of picking up information with our senses, and then analyzing that information and making some kind of sense of it in parts of our working brains that our conscious selves don't have access to, so - we're aware of things sometimes on a certain level without being able to know exactly what it is we know. Intuition. Things don't make sense to us - but we are critters that need to make sense of everything - so, we come up with an explanation and we make it fit

But like I said Tex - what do I know? I'm just one more monkey trying to make sense of my world. It's all a mystery - who knows how weird it can really get?

:-)

reply to post by WebOfWonder

Just to confirm, I didn't provide any proof of what I was stating (and apologies, it was a long post to read twice), but on the flip side of your statement, and this isn't intended to be offensive, have you any proof that your influence on your life is greater than nil?

Confirmed :-)

And - not offended - no worries there

I chose to have coffee this morning instead of tea...not my choice? Then - it's not your choice to post what you just posted - or my choice to contest any of it - or your choice to try and sway my thinking - or my choice to disagree with all of this outright. Seriously - if this is the meaning of life - then it's a little disappointing

Just because one side suits an ideal you or someone else has, or it makes your life easier, or is more comfortable to consider, doesn't mean it is the truth (and/or correct), even if it's the general consensus/belief.

Oh, I absolutely agree with this. But, funny thing is - you just talked your way out of your weapon of choice :-)

To answer your final question, and this may sound a little godly, religious or science-fiction, but it could be argued your actions are controlled/given by god or the control matrix/dimension and you are merely a vessel to experience/perceive a physical universe/reality and/or to learn/understand/do etc.

Could be :-) But - as you've just stated - no proof. Your idea (or opinion) - doesn't mean it's the truth

This is what always cracks me up about this sort of thing - you want me to consider something? I think most of us have considered what you're suggesting. I know the point is to slip in a doubt here and there - and maybe I might reconsider my views...or maybe you're being intellectually honest and you've considered the flip side of this - that there's no puppeteer, no empty vessels waiting to be filled - no message? You know - Logic 0 and Logic 1?

Well, rest assured - I reconsider, consider, un-consider - and then think about it all over and over again...all the time

As do we all

Meaning is a word - and words are tricky. We're creatures that spend a great deal of time communicating and interpreting - with words. We can only understand this universe the way we understand anything. The universe is - and reality is information. Information has to be understood - at least by us. As I said elsewhere - I think that if there is a message in this universe - it just is - and message is a wholly inadequate word

And anyhow - if I am being controlled - my role in this game seems to be to dismiss this:

Consider the arguments between the creationist version of the universe and the evolutionary theory of the universe. I don't believe that either have been proven or dis-proven, one way or the other. Why dismiss either theory as being wrong, or accept either as being right? - Which ever side you choose, you are wrong (because there is no right/logical answer at the level "you" need to make the "decision/conclusion" at.....yet).

Am I as wrong as you are?

:-)

P.S. What if there is creator, and it didn't make us because it had a reason - maybe it had no choice

reply to post by WebOfWonder


WebOfWonder - friend - just rereading some of your posts

Not that you'll return - or even see this, but just so you know - I realize you weren't here for a debate :-)

One of the very best things in life is people trying to do each other a good turn - even when it goes unrecognized or unappreciated

You're a sport

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis






It's all a mystery - who knows how weird it can really get?

I'm convinced that it can get so weird that our little monkey brains will just go "whaaa?"

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Just out of curiosity....does that mean you understand what was being said in the context it was meant to be understood?

Because at the end, it seems it is all boiling down to you only being able to make the decisions that you are confronted with (meaning that without that chocolate, you wouldn't likely have thought to make a decision about whether or not to have some). And you make decisions based on you being a product of your environment. I am sure none of us here want to strap on a bomb vest and go to the market. But not having come from an area where that sort of thing happens....how do you know that you wouldn't have ended up doing it?

An old mystic I used to know used to tell me ad nauseum that our creator was us, and we are a multifaceted being. Meaning that we are all just a different face of the same gem. He was a pretty clever guy, and some of what he used to tell me has made sense over the years. This particular thing took awhile for me to understand what he was saying He also would say often that "self is other". He essentially was iterating a variation of the monad and duad.

Another mystic, of a more indian nature, used to talk about multi faced demons. However, I think he may have gone a little too far, and lost touch with our reality. While what he was saying may have profound significance, it was impossible to really understand because it was so mixed with metaphors of his own mystical experiences.

In any event....my own experiences have told me that there is "something". I can't define much more than that.

reply to post by olaru12


Get weird? It's already way weird :-)

whaaa? moments abound

:-)

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Rats...thought I was gonna have myself a day of non-thinky goofing off :-)

Just out of curiosity....does that mean you understand what was being said in the context it was meant to be understood?

Who knows Tex - I think I may have misunderstood part of one of your last posts too :-)

But, all kidding aside - yeah - I get what he's saying - but out of all of it, what struck me was this:

- Those techniques/experiences/conclusions have potentially been experienced and built up from day one of your life. You did not decide where and when you were conceived and, as a result born, and to whom, so how could you decide who your parents were and where you grew up? As a result, who could not decided who your friends/partners were, or were going to be, what your experiences would be etc.

- What were you taught? and how? what if the teachings were wrong?

- You could claim the same for every person, animal, anything that has happened since the creation/formation of the universe/dimension?

How much of your life have you actually controlled?

This is what I was re-responding to - what I guessed was his/her intent. I could be wrong about that too :-)

But - I don't think so

Free will - like consciousness - isn't something I pretend to understand. But like you - and a lot of people - I think about it (them) a lot. There are those that will tell you that the moment we're aware that we've decided something comes right after the moment it was already decided by - us:
Scientific evidence that you probably don’t have free will

And indeed, this is starting to happen. As the early results of scientific brain experiments are showing, our minds appear to be making decisions before we're actually aware of them — and at times by a significant degree.

Choice - free will...if we have no free will - we still have to live our lives as if we do. So, where does that leave us? :-)

An old mystic I used to know used to tell me ad nauseum that our creator was us, and we are a multifaceted being. Meaning that we are all just a different face of the same gem.

I actually do believe in the idea of a collective unconscious. I'm not sure I can come up with a good explanation for my belief - other than I think there are memories or knowledge - or instincts if you prefer, that we share that have evolved in us - with us. We share a common link that goes beyond culture - nature more than nurture if you know what I mean. I can't prove it - any more than Jung could and I'm not even close to being as qualified. But I do think it's a part of what language is - music, art - symbolism. I also think it offers a kind of explanation for the 100the monkey thing (finally getting back to the OP) :-)

In this way - I agree - we are a multifaceted being. But I see it as something explainable - not supernatural. Doesn't make it any less mind-blowing or beautiful - at least for me

In any event....my own experiences have told me that there is "something". I can't define much more than that.

That's honest. I can't define the way I see the universe any better myself - it's one of those things. Like I said earlier - I have no idea how weird weird can get. That's not a loop hole. As we were also discussing earlier - we don't know that weird isn't ultimately explainable and understandable. We just haven't got there yet

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


The link you provided....i will return to read its entirety. For the moment, my quick skim synopsis:

It has been known that we act before awareness. It has been measured by, I think, Cornell University. A split second before an image was displayed on a monitor, the subject showed biological resposne. For example, a gruesome image, right before showing up, caused an uptick in stress response. While calming images, just before displaying, showed a decrease in stress response.

Ingo Swann went into some great detail, devoting several hundred pages to what he has observed. Given the context of his experiences, he goes quite far into removing "super" from "supernatural". But his observations lean towards our bodies being truly controlled subconsciously. Our conscious minds are made to think that we made those decisions...but they are made beyond us.

Which brings to the fore the ever disconcerting notion that the violence we commit upon each other....where does it derive from?

While giving child rearing advice to a peer yesterday (i was asked, otherwise would never have piped up, to be sure), i made the observation that the essence of raising a child is teaching them to control the human animal body they inhabit. Self control is essentially controlling the outer animal.

But who knows. Perhaps there is no self control. Or perhaps what we call "self control" emanates from a neurochemical response, strengthened with practice?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

It is sometimes all I think about - this stuff :-)

The link is pretty much just more of what you just posted - you won't find any real surprises I don't think

But how about this - maybe what we think of as our self is really more of a relay between a bunch of selves. Just because the last one on the line sees it happen doesn't mean it could have happened with out the others

And I mean others - maybe we are more of a team than we are an individual

But who knows. Perhaps there is no self control. Or perhaps what we call "self control" emanates from a neurochemical response, strengthened with practice?

See? :-) Not as sexy as other possibilities, but oh well

Anyhow - still leaves us with - free will or no free will - does it matter? How else can we look at it? How does knowing this change the way we live our lives?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


Our conscious minds are made to think that we made those decisions...but they are made beyond us.

Which brings to the fore the ever disconcerting notion that the violence we commit upon each other....where does it derive from?

Now we are weirding out into the metaphysical; Good and evil realms vs. freewill and chaos.

My shamanic travels lead me to the entities. So weird that no matter how hard I try, words and language just aren't capable of true expression. Except to say that what we perceive with our primitive senses just allows us to see only a little of reality.

Doors of Perception...

“To be enlightened is to be aware, always, of total reality in its immanent otherness - to be aware of it and yet remain in a condition to survive as an animal. Our goal is to discover that we have always been where we ought to be. Unhappily we make the task exceedingly difficult for ourselves.” ― Aldous Huxley, The Doors of Perception

reply to post by olaru12


while this thread is likely not the place for such discussion...i would be interested in hearing about "the entities" you have seen. I have heard many stories. I do not partake in shamanic travels of my own, as the changes such pursuits create can be very damaging to a persons ability to continue in the "real" world.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

Choice - free will...if we have no free will - we still have to live our lives as if we do. So, where does that leave us? :-)

Wouldn't that depend on what you wanted to focus on? What you enjoy/enjoyed? What your circumstances were/are? What you don't like and wish to change? Your feelings/perceptions towards something/anything? What are your core "values","ideals" or points of reasoning? Your targets and goals? If you investigate yourself as a starting point, shouldn't that lead you somewhere? Is that not the only thing that has always been in every part of your life?

I'm trying not to be glib about this, especially in the context of the thread, but what's the first thing that springs to mind? Is that your focus? Is it positive or negative? As viewed by who?


For example, if you had a focus/interest on learning/knowledge - It could be argued that you could come to more informed "decisions"/"conclusions" by improving your decision making ability and increasing your knowledge base for the situations you are to more likely to encounter (e.g. regular work/job/career or family/friends etc.) in your life.

You won't know some/any (some may be more probable than others) of the future events that are around the corner, but there are skills/training/books/internet suitable for covering areas which may feature in many of them (e.g. "soft skills", money management, business skills, memory skills/techniques, listening/reading skills etc.)


Giving/Selflessness? - Dedicate your life to helping others? Charity work?

Travel/Experience? - See/Experience the World.

Change aspects about yourself you don't like? Aspects that you see in others that you don't like, or wish to remove from your self? Problems you see with others that actually lie with "you"?

Be the best "you" "you" can be? Be the best "you" that "you" can be for others? Be a shining example to others during your life and after you die?

I'd like to think that you wouldn't want to turn towards negative (from my viewpoint) aspects/ideals, but you can still benefit from learning from them (i.e. know thy enemy).

At this point, I'm possibly imposing my own ideals somewhat, so apologies for that.

You have a life, why not make the best of it? What "the best" is, can only be limited by what you perceive "the best" to be, and any circumstances that get in the way of that. Note that "best" may not be the "best" from the viewpoint of somebody else.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I was thinking ... does anyone think that the events with major energy that are happening in the USA ... such as the happenings in Ferguson ... have 'the hundredth monkey effect' attached to them? That could be a really deep conversation ....

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Who you callin a monkey???

Monkey see, Monkey do.