Umbrella Gate...Marines asked to violate dress code protocol so President doesn't get wet

Non-issue?!? This is a slap in the face to all marines! Let me break this down in very simple terms : ONE of the amazing skills a marine must master before graduating is running 3 miles in 18 minutes. I have been a passionate runner for years and the best I can do is two miles in 14 minutes. I bet you couldn't run a mile in 15 minutes. These men are the best of the best. (Not because of their running skills, that was ONE quick,easy example how much better these men have to be than you and I). President or not, a tent could have done a better job and spared the marines some dignity. But no; that same marine would have stoically done the same job in a pink tutu because he is BETTER than the man he protects from the rain. Our POTUS has no idea and no respect for the talent and skill that our marines must possess. To all marines everywhere I apologize and congratulate you for your unsung dignity and pride. You are modern day samurais.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Their job is to protect the White House and the President. It is an honorable detail to perform.

And that is exactly what they did - they protected the President!

People keep saying Marines this Marines that and the truth most of them would call what they are doing at the White House Parade Detail. Yes a Parade Detail. Press your clothes make sure your hat is in the correct.Polish your shoes to a shine. Make sure your Buckle and your zipper line up. And people act as though these guys are not supposed to hold a umbrella? Hell they open the doors all day for people. I remember marching in a parade and I never wanted to do it again. I could not imagine the BS parade detail at the White House would be like.


en.wikipedia.org...

Please can I ask a favor?
This president is far from being my favorite, as are quite a number of other recent Commanders-In-Chief.
the favor is a fairly simple request.

PLEASE, stop putting me in a position that makes me have to defend this guy! I said please.

I know, I know, I didn't really publicly defend him in this thread, but I've had to do it in real life with a coworker, who is always bringing up "all the scary stuff that Obama did this week".

Thanks

Originally posted by roadgravel

Military personnel are not drones who solely do what they are told because of the chain of command.

Isn't that what following orders is. Do military personnel do what they feel like, not as instructed?

No we are charged with following the lawful orders of those appointed above us; not just blindly do what people say. This issue is up in the air. Those who hold to standards will find an issue and they are valid. On the other hand, it isn't that big of a deal. Either way, it has its sides.

Ask me to shoot a child in the head because you "said so" and I will gladly take my military tribunal and explain why you ordered me to engage in an unlawful act. Again, we are not drones as the media and others portray.

1st- You're a freaking grown man, Mr President. Go ahead and ask someone to get you an umbrella if you are busy, but put on your big-boy pants and hold your own damn umbrella like every other adult in the known universe! I don't care who it is that would have to hold it for you.

2nd- If you are a member of any armed forces branch and the CinC tells you to hold an umbrella, you are going to hold that umbrella till your arm falls off if it takes that to get the job done. And it ain't gonna be a big thing, either. Let me see.... hold an umbrella,,,,,,,, lay down my life for a bunch of ungrateful slobs... I know which one I am going to choose! In fact I can see this becoming a new 'training' technique in boot... "You better HOLD that umbrella when I hit it with this firehose, Reee-qruit! "

3rd- Can everyone please stop calling everything a -gate? Please? Watergate was Watergate. It was a serious breach of statecraft (not to mention illegal) by a sitting president and bears nothing in common with anything less. Whats next? Booger-gate if a president picks his nose? TP-gate if a square gets stuck to the bottom of a shoe?

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by muse7

 

You would say that but I disagree and suggest that it is an issue.

FACT: MCO P1020.34F of the Marine Corps Uniform Regulations chapter 3 states a male Marine is not allowed to carry an umbrella while in uniform. There is no provision in the Marine Corps uniform regulation guidelines that allows a male Marine to carry an umbrella.

So to order a Marine to disregard a basic protocol in favor of his own personal comfort is just another sign of Obama's willingness to thumb his nose at the rules for his own personal gain.

However, let us suppose this was simply an innocent mistake, which I believe it to be, then that is actually a different issue. It would go to show that the President, the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of this Country, has no clue of the rules of his own troops that he commands and in actuality I think this is a much bigger issue than if he had ordered the Marine to hold the umbrella.

Other Presidents have used umbrellas, they have carried it themselves. They have had any member of their staff hold it. They have had Secret Service hold it. Interns have done so. The President has many options to choose from if he needs someone to hold his umbrella. Even the Queen of England holds her own umbrella, so in some ways I think having a Marine do so is a bit insulting.

Marines are a different breed of Military. They have a long history of tradition. They are very very proud, and as far as the armed services goes, they are what one could describe as more exclusive. Not everyone can join the Army, but even less can become a Marine. Of all our Armed Forces, the Marines are the smallest group.

Noted MrWendal, and a star for the cite.
The unfortunate thing here is a protocol takes a back seat to regs, dead to rights.
But since the POTUS seemed clueless to the numbers as he ordered the canopy,
I believe the young man shouldn't get a sheet in his file... G1 should politely clue
the POTUS later on though, so the foible isn't repeated.
And personally a click or so off, and how much I love Mr. Wonderful anyway-- I think a
small garbage can of spuds would be perfect PT for someone not so water resistant.
ps the more I'm looking at the photo, we wouldn't want the Wicked Wizard of the
Wherever to melt or something... or if the grease paint rinses off the lizard the jig's UP

As a former Marine who would have loved to be part of the president's own honor guard, the picture of the Marines holding those umbrellas really ticked me off. That's not what they are there for. They are men of honor, courage, and commitment. Not indentured slaves to keep the president dry in a raid storm.

Maybe the commitment core value could be used here. Commitment to do as the commander-in-chief asks. But seriously, that's just insulting to me.

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
That's not what they are there for. They are men of honor, courage, and commitment. Not indentured slaves to keep the president dry in a raid storm.

So they are there to open doors, but not protect the President....

reply to post by hellobruce


Where to start. First, they are there to be escorts mostly. Protection is the first mission of secret service. The job of the Marines is to stand in uniform and show that the Marines are the cream of the crop. The Marines will absolutely protect the president if he is in danger. Don't get me wrong, but that's not their primary mission.

But let me ask you this: WHAT THE HELL DOES PROTECTING THE PRESIDENT HAVE TO DO WITH KEEPING HIM DRY?!

Oh, right. That rain could easily kill him. He could be eroded away by it's watery erosiveness.

Were (are) you a Marine?

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
WHAT THE HELL DOES PROTECTING THE PRESIDENT HAVE TO DO WITH KEEPING HIM DRY?!

So a marine would not protect the President if someone was going to throw a bucket of water over him, or paint.... or spit on him....

Originally posted by Gemwolf
This thread reminds me of the popular "First World Problems" Internet meme...

Meanwhile in the USA: "Our President asked a Marine to hold an umbrella up while he gave a speech".
Meanwhile in Zimbabwe: "Our President kills our children and live in luxury, while we all are starving; begging; dying.


...

argumentum ad populum

Not to mention the irrational "not as bad as" argument, with a tinge of false dichotomy and argumentum ad consequentiam to boot.

I agree with spacedoubt, stop making me defend Obama.

reply to post by Kali74

Originally posted by beezzer
I'd make this a non-issue the second someone can post a photo of a marine holding an umbrella for Bush(s), Reagan, Ford.

. . . waiting. . .

A non-issue.

Thank you Kali.

Ok, firstly this is a massive non-issue. Secondly I am sick and tired of people getting lazy and tacking '-gate' at the end of every supposed scandal and conspiracy. Enough!

This is a microcosm of what's been happening lately and how these other Obama "scandals" will end up playing out. "Outrage!", "outrage!", "outrage!!!!"..... "oh, that's the real story?".... "eating crow", "eating crow", "eating crow"....

If the right would spend even half their time working for the people rather than working against the president, this country would be a lot better off...

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
Ok, firstly this is a massive non-issue. Secondly I am sick and tired of people getting lazy and tacking '-gate' at the end of every supposed scandal and conspiracy. Enough!

Snarky Post-gate. I think we should investi-gate!

(Sorry, didn't mean to insti-gate!)

Originally posted by beezzer
I'd make this a non-issue the second someone can post a photo of a marine holding an umbrella for Bush(s), Reagan, Ford.

. . . waiting. . .

A non-issue.

Thank you Kali.



Technically, speaking the montage didn't show a Marine holding an umbrella for any POTUS other than Obama.

The guy holding for Regan is Secret Service, the guys holding for the Bushes are Army (Officers actually), (who are allowed to carry and use umbrellas when in dress uniform BTW IAW AR670-1.) the only Marine is the one holding for Obama.

Palin appears to be having some flunky hold an umbrella for her but out of context this could be any guy being a gentleman and while walking down that set of stairs sharing his umbrella with a woman who has none.

I have been known to offer to share or even give an umbrella to a complete stranger (a woman) when it is clear she hasn't prepared for the weather. Not that I carry an umbrella on a regular basis mind you.

With regard to the military - I am retired I was enlisted for a while then retired as an officer. When acting as someone’s driver (enlisted) or as an aide (officer) there is a fine and gray line between what are considered one's "duties" that free up the principals time and effort for more important things and what is termed "personal servitude".

Traditionally, you do whatever the hell your seniors tell you to do... However, things that are personal in nature like picking up dry cleaning, buying flowers for his wife (even if he pays), fetching lunch, and coffee etc., are all examples of personal servitude. Things that are the responsibility of the individual outside his professional role.

Things that are part of the professional role even things that might seem personal like carrying luggage say, are not personal servitude. I mean if the General for whom you are the Aide is meeting someone at the Airport at a certain time you fetch the bags so he can make the meeting it's your job to make sure he is on time and prepared with what he needs for his meetings etc. Pouring his coffee is something he should do himself (or a waiter). Holding a newspaper over the General's head so his uniform doesn't get wet is just a servile gesture and none I know would allow it let alone ask for it.

In my opinion holding an umbrella for the POTUS is personal servitude unless he needs both hands for some reason to speak. However, since the TPOTUS has no pages to turn, I don't see that as the case. Also, it doesn't take from the dignity of the office for the POTUS to hold his own umbrella - in fact I think it makes it appear imperial or regal for this to happen.

reply to post by UsedUp


It may not be identical, but (my god! I can't believe I'm doing this) are we, perhaps, splitting hairs?

As a former member of the armed services myself, I just can't seem to capture the outrage others are feeling. Is Obama a narcissistic egomaniac jerk-face? YES!
Is he the worst president America has ever had? YES!

Am I going to get bent out of shape about the umbrella? Just can't do it.

reply to post by UsedUp


The very fact that you (or anyone) felt obliged to make a post of that length about umbrella-holding is very sad. Nothing personal, but just sad that it's come to this...