UKIP Leader Chased Off Streets Of Edinburgh

Well he could not have picked a better place to hide, a pub. the best place for a lock down.

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by EloquentThinker
The OP is probably some Labour/Con shill trying to give negative publicity to UKIP. It won't work, because vast numbers of the British public are sick of this open door immigration policy. This isn't a race issue, nor whether we're trying to isolate ourselves - It's about the best interests of the UK.

Again, you say this is about immigration, but you ignore that UKIP has no opinion on any other vital policy!

People are (hopefully) not going to vote for a party like UKIP just because of this one policy on immigration! If you would, you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote in the first place.

The best interests of the UK... that would be a government that knows how to continue funding the NHS in the face of increasing longevity, that knows how to increase employment, that knows how to encourage companies to come here, that has a plan for education, that has goals for renewable energy, that has a plan for sustainable and continued growth of infrastructure... UKIP has nothing to say on ANY OF THAT.

If you genuinely want what is best for the UK, you will vote for a party that can deliver on more important things than whether you think there are too many brown faces in the high street

How can you say that, a 2 sec visit to their website gives you their 2010 manifesto.

Policies , (briefly).
Immigration controls immediately then policy based similarly to
Australia,Canada ie points system,www.ukip.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.ukip.org... -manifesto
Low tax leadig to a flat tax rate,
Minimum changes to the Nhs and larger Defense budget.

Originally posted by Revolution9

Originally posted by crazyewok
Wanna bet that if the mud slinging dont work and Farrage becomes a real threat of winning the next gennral election he will end up dead?

Assassination, "suicide" or "accident" ?

It what normaly happens in the USA when a 3rd party gets to popular

Hmmm! Normally I don't condone the behaviour of clandestine assassins, but I may make an exception in this case!

(only jocular...I hate violence and would not wish evil upon my very worst enemy, but come on!)

edit on 17-5-2013 by Revolution9 because: spelling.

No way is he a Fascist , i find your ignorance mind blowing.

I suppose to you the EU is the epitome of Democracy,with it's crystal clear political transparency.

reply to post by Rocker2013


Rocker 2013,

Please read and address my earlier post. The current UK, and specifically English, culture as it stands today was not founded on immigration. I implore and challenge you to deny my claim with hard evidence

I will reiterate. England has been subject to immigration throughout its history, no doubt. Sometimes its culture was completely replaced with another in instances of conquest and other reasons. However, in the late medieval period, England, culturally, developed an identity of its own separate from continental Europe and especially France. Sure, the culture was an amalgamation of others, but developed into one that is distinctly English, and today could be considered distinctly British. Since then, about 500 years, British culture has proved to be one of the more, if not most successful cultural and societal systems in the world. It has been subject to low level immigration, but nothing that fundamentally altered the cultural and societal system. The British culture and societal system has evolved since then, too, but only at the will and discretion of the people already belonging to that system, including those who assimilated.

What people are worried about in the UK is such a large influx of immigrants that not only don't assimilate to be a part of the system that has proved to be quite successful, but in not assimilating, demanding that this British culture be ignored for the sake of the immigrants'. What's funny is that the immigrants left their own country because their home societal and cultural system isn't competitive on the world stage, isn't successful, and has done very little for them. In effect, the English, and overall the British, are worried about their tried and tested system of society that catapulted them to front of the world stage getting usurped and replaced with a less or non-competitive system.

People in the UK aren't, in general, racist or xenophobic. www.telegraph.co.uk...

However, they are extremely aware of how much it behooves them to retain their societal and cultural system.

There's a book, and I'm wracking my brain to remember the Title and Author, I'll have to look around my house to find it. Basically it, quite exhaustively, details through cold hard facts, statistics, and analysis, what makes certain societies successful versus what makes societies relatively unsuccessful, not only in providing for their own people, but also in competing with other societies. There's a laundry list, a summary, of what creates this society. There are a handful of countries/societies that comes close to ticking all of the boxes so to speak. UK being one of them.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
Your link does nothing to prove your point or argue mine. One mans opinion is not a response to the fact that this island has been the subject of invasions and migrations to create the population we have over hundreds of thousands of years - immigration is NOT NEW.

It's the unprecedented, MASSIVE SCALE of immigration that IS NEW.

Relatively small waves of European immigrants (Vikings, Romans and Anglo-Saxons) have historically added to the British ethnic make up.

It is the recent massive level of immigration, from all over the world, that is without precedent.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
You are simply not responding to the scientific fact and you are choosing to ignore it. This island was CREATED by immigration.

Created by immigration at the end of the last Ice Age!

Three quarters of our ancestors came to this corner of Europe as hunter-gatherers, between 15,000 and 7,500 years ago.

Another wave of immigration arrived during the Neolithic period, when farming developed about 6,500 years ago.

Myths of British Ancestry

75% of the UK's inhabitants have genetically been there for 6,500 years.

The other 25% were European immigrants. They integrated.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
Europe in the coming years, this country, AND YOU AS A CITIZEN, exist because of immigration, and the culture you are so vehement in defending is a bi-product of that immigration.

75% of Britons have been there for 6,500 years. The other 25% arrived in waves over the last 6,500 years from Europe, so it is patently untrue to represent the recent mass immigration into the UK from all over the world as being anything but extraordinary.

Immigrants should integrate.

Immigration should be of benefit to the people of the UK not just the Labour party who pick up votes and big business who get cheap labor.

Immigration drains Britain, says Left think tank

Originally posted by Rocker2013
You want this to be a panic, a mass delusion where we all are forced to read Islamic text in schools and follow Sharia Law

Few people in the UK, bar the extreme left, are still in denial about the danger of Islamic extremism.

Originally posted by Galvatron

What people are worried about in the UK is such a large influx of immigrants that not only don't assimilate to be a part of the system that has proved to be quite successful, but in not assimilating, demanding that this British culture be ignored for the sake of the immigrants'.

And the left encouraged immigrants to not immigrate by encouraging 'multiculturalism' and shouting down anyone who objected by calling them racist.

• Immigrants should integrate, not demand that we change our culture to appease them.

• Immigrants should work, not be given benefit by the British taxpayer to support large imported families.

• Immigration should be to the economic benefit of the British people, not a financial drain.

Multi culturelism is all well and good but some cultures do not mix! They cant mix as there are fundamental differences that can not be resolved.

I understand that immigration is a major concern for many in the UK and that this concern is a contributory factor in the rise in support for UKIP.

But I thought this thread was about a group of protesters in Scotland who bullied and intimidated Nigel Farage due to his alleged 'far right' and 'Nazi' views, UKIP and it's policies in general and their relevance to Scotland.

Seems to me that it has somehow become yet another thread solely about immigration, the refusal of some Muslim immigrants to integrate and the threat that they may pose.

Now I'm not saying that isn't a concern of mine as well as many other's but?

Originally posted by Freeborn

Seems to me that it has somehow become yet another thread solely about immigration, the refusal of some Muslim immigrants to integrate and the threat that they may pose.

Did anyone actually link those three things together?

I don't think anyone did. One poster tried to drag Muslims into the conversation but I responded with a single sentence.

Besides, at least the thread has risen above mere name calling.

Nigel obviously has the others worried, hence the rent-a-mob crap and the press' joyful reportage of same. he is a threat to the establishment and their response will be through disingenuous subterfuge and smear tactics. same old same old.

reply to post by ollncasino

Did anyone actually link those three things together?

No, but that's the general direction this thread is going.
I understand that threads sometime's have a life all of their own and have a tendency to meander and wander, I have been 'guilty' of dragging more than just a few threads off-topic, it's just I am interested in people's thought's and opinions on Farage's treatment on this occassion and UKIP's standing and relevance in Scotland.

One poster tried to drag Muslims into the conversation but I responded with a single sentence.

I certainly had no intention of finger pointing or heaven forbid self-appointed Moderating.

Besides, at least the thread has risen above mere name calling.

That is true and that is indeed a good thing.

I share many of the concerns expressed about immigration etc it's just there's many a thread specifically related to those sort of issues, and as you know I sometime's feel compelled to chip in with my own two pennorth in those threads.

Feel free to post as you see fit, it's got nothing whatsoever to do with me in any shape or form I was just giving my own personal opinion on how I think this thread is progressing - not a criticism just an observation.

Slightly back to the original question, I'd like to share something from last night which I observed.

As you know I'm "not of the UK" but have lived in Scotland for a few years, gf & young family here. And I'm still keen to lern more about the locals, UK is an amazing country, so diverse, you can drive 10 miles and it's a different world to the one you left, in terms of accents, attitudes, culture etc.

Anyway. A workmate invited me to observe an Orange Walk, he's in the Orange Lodge which is a Protestant organization, Protestant and very much British. He's a member of Lodge. So last night after work off we went in a Renault Espace (great choice) to a town in Lanarkshire. It was obvious something major was about to happen ... I have never in my life seen so many people on the streets. And in the main they were all clothed in red, white and blue, in Glasgow Rangers FC soccer shirts, or some combination of the two.

And passing by the crowds were bands of many number, I counted over 20 marching bands. The band members are dressed in vibrant colored military style uniforms, they are mainly a young fit guy carrying a great big bass drum with others band members playing flutes, patriotic British & Northern Irish songs.

The crowds were well behaved and applauded as each band went by. They sang God Save The Queen when it was played, they were in the main very respectful. And they were "salt of the earth" people, ordinary West of Scotland and working class.

It was really enjoyable watching the bands. Afterwards we went to a local pub for some beers, the atmosphere was riotous. It was there that some of the people kinda said what they felt about their current situation, of being working class in the West of Scotland.

Bottom line I came away with is ... the Protestant working class community of the central Scotland corridor, of the Lothians, of Lanarkshire & Ayrshire ... they feel completely forgotton about. By Labor, who they normally vote for, by the Conservatives (even just saying the word Tory brought laughter). And they hate Salmond too, they hate the SNP. They see Labor as being a Catholic party, in alliance with the RC Church locally. Most of the Labor candidates and activists are Catholic. They see Catholicism are alien, as Irish and as unwelcome, as something that needs driven out.

They also see the EU as Catholic. They regard the EU as a vast enterprize of the Vatican, one solely designed to transfer funds from Northern Protestant countries to Southern Catholic countries. They hate the EU.

So far so good. No surprises there then.

But here's the rub ... they also hate the English. They've got a chant for anyone they don't like and three broke into a tune, just for me. "AB Loyal, AB Loyal, f**k Farage and Susan Boyle" (Susan Boyle is a local RC celebrity). They think Farage is posh, public school & completely unwelcome too.

Words can't describe by how much the seemingly loyal, British community here hates the English too ... it's not just wacky Scottish nationalists, it's everyone. The working class of central Scotland despise the English, it doesn't matter whether they're nationalist, loyalist, protestant, catholic, labor, snp or conservative. The English are hated.

I asked some whether there wasn't a contradiction, being Scottish/British etc. They see being British as a bit like Swedes or Danes might see being Scandinavian, separate nations with some things in common. They see family, cultural links with friends in Northern Ireland but they distrust politicians of all kinds very much. As to their voting intentions for the independence referendum, many said they would vote yes. Some said it would represent the last chance to keep Scotland protestant. Others said it would hand control to Rome. They're very divided on the subject, it isn't clear cut. That is representative of Scotland in general I think, many people are genuinely torn up about the whole subject, one guy I know is beating himself up about his birthright being given away for nothing if Scotland leaves UK. The issue is dividing people, folks are falling out with each other, there's wars on facebook all the time, the rancor is unbelievable. The anger shown earlier in this thread is as nothing as compared to what's happening on the streets and in homes of Scotland.

Farage ? He is a fool, he's ignorant. He walked into a minefield and got blown to bits. For Scotland and it's politics are a hell of lot more complicated, involved than you'd ever imagine. Think Ireland in the early 1900's, that's my best descriptor, imagine Churchill blundering into Ireland & it's politics in 1916 and you could imagine the reaction. from the Irish people ... well, Farage has just done something similar and I'm very sure he's regretting ever crossing the border.

Hopefully other politicians will learn to tread more sensitively in Scotland in the future.

BTW I really enjoyed last night, it was a great night.

reply to post by LeBombDiggity


Great post.

Nothing you recounted surprised me - but it did remind me of the old Alan Bleasdale fim No Surrender.
It's a cracking film and well worth a watch, (I think it's on Youtube).
en.wikipedia.org...(film)

As part of Bleasdale's research for the film he went along to an Orange Lodge meeting in Liverpool.
He said that when he came out of it his emotions had been stirred that much that he felt like 'killing a Catholic' - Bleasdale himself is Catholic.

I am a bit of an oddity; a proud North East Englishman who was raised on a vastly predominantly Protestant council estate but I was raised Catholic, (I now consider myself Agnostic but 'man out of the bible belt and all that).
Without going into it in depth I am also a firm believer in The Union, (I feel we have a better chance of achieving real and positive change remaining together whilst recognising our differences).
I have travelled all over Europe, quite a lot of it done supporting England - yet I am also a fervent Celtic supporter.

I travel to Scotland, mainly Glasgow, to watch Celtic and see friends quite frequently.

As such I have witnessed many similar events to that which you described, just from the Catholic perspective.

The majority of my friends feel quite at odds with themselves and the options that are open to them.
They resent what they perceive as the Protestant 'Establishment', they feel nothing but contempt for Salmond and The Nats yet most also identify with Scotland as a whole and whilst feel British have nothing but disgust and contempt for English.
[They refuse to recognise me as an Englishman saying that I am a 'Geordie', which I most definately am not, and that we are 'more or less Scottish anyway', which we aren't - I'm sure you can imagine that some of our discussions get quite lively especially at daft o'clock in the morning).

The thing is, what most of us have in common, and I firmly believe we should concentrate more on the many things that unite us rather than the few things that divide us, is a burning dislike of the London centricism of UK politics and society in general and a hatred of 'the establishment' that has used and exploited us for far too long.
I think Bigyin made a good post about it earlier in the thread.

What's the answer?
I honestly don't know - I'm just an uneducated, working class council estate boy from North East England - but what I am certain of is that as long as we continue to bicker and argue with each other and as long as the current amoral, self-perpetuating system remains intact nothing much is ever going to change for the vast majority of us.

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
A workmate invited me to observe an Orange Walk, he's in the Orange Lodge which is a Protestant organization, Protestant and very much British.

But here's the rub ... they also hate the English.

I would further differentiate that. The Scottish don't hate English people as individuals (although a few do). They hate England, although Northern England gets a get out of Jail free card as they are perceived as being as badly done by the South of England as the Scots.

It is also true that there is a great Catholic vs. Protestant divide in North Ayrshire and central Scotland. It's perhaps not as bad as it once was but both sides have (very) extensive links with opposing paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland, as do Celtic and Rangers.

I didn't know that the Scottish Marching Band Protestants hated England (I have never had the urge to spend time with those people due to their links to paramilitaries) but it is a common enough sentiment in Scotland at all levels across all political perspectives. Not in a hatred in a violent sense. More in the way you hate your sister. England is seen as family in the sense that if anyone threatens your family, all differences are forgotten.

Back to Farage. He basically didn't know what he was walking into. Having said that, the rent a mob he encountered almost certainly had nothing to do with either of the two religious groupings. Most of them have probably never done a day's work in their lives and yet go home and sing "L'Internationale" while dreaming of the workers of the world (which they aren't) uniting.

Here is their webpage

Radical Independence

Having quickly looked over their page, I'm not sure what makes them radical. Physically intimidating political opponents perhaps?

Originally posted by Freeborn
I honestly don't know - I'm just an uneducated, working class council estate boy from North East England - but what I am certain of is that as long as we continue to bicker and argue with each other and as long as the current amoral, self-perpetuating system remains intact nothing much is ever going to change for the vast majority of us.

Yet ironically, only Nationalism can stop the forces of globalization that sees not only workers imported from the third world to lower Western wages but the export of Western capital to China to build factories.

Has no one else noticed that there is currently a great International equalization of wealth occurring?

As Western workers' incomes stand still or contract in real terms, Chinese incomes are surging ahead in real terms. The Western working class is getting poorer as the East gets richer.

Of course the super rich are getting even richer.

Only nationalism can stop globalization, a process that has produced many winners and many losers. Ordinary Western workers have not proven to be winners in this round of globalization.

reply to post by ollncasino


You make some valid points and I tend to agree with much of what you posted.

How do we stop globalization?
Again, I honestly don't know.

I have my own ideas and thoughts of course, but they seem quite at odds with the majority of people both here in the UK and in the world at large.

Is Nationalism the answer?
To be honest I have conflicting thoughts on this - yes, we need to preserve our 'national identities' and to be proud of them, but we also need to recognise and acknowledge that all societies need to continue growing and developing and embrace new inputs that enable us to do so in a positive and progressive manner.

Nationalism is also the source of much confrontation.

In addition, I personally refuse to be labelled, pigeon holed or subscribe to any individual dogmatic belief system or creed - I am neither left-wing, right-wing or centrist or whatever, I am me-wing and try to treat any subject / topic on it's own individual merits.

Again, just my personal point of view, I believe that some sort of Federal, Direct Democracy system is the right direction for the UK to take, but I can't see it happening in my life time - but we all live in hope.

The one thing we most definately agree on is that it's the ordinary, everyday average British people who are losing out most at present.

Whilst I admire Farage for his stance and approach to the EU, I also think he's trying to out-Tory the Tory Party itself and feels rejected and shunned by them - the major political party's chose to ignore him, he didn't quite fit in with The Old School Network, went to the 'wrong' private schools for Cameron / Clegg / Blair / Miliband etc.

Apologies for the rambling like nature of this post, it's Saturday night and well, I'm sure you know.

He's a cock....and we have enough Cocks in power at the moment....as far as i'm concerned his plane never hit the ground hard enough...say no to Farage....say yes to.....well whatever.

Originally posted by Freeborn


Whilst I admire Farage for his stance and approach to the EU, I also think he's trying to out-Tory the Tory Party itself and feels rejected and shunned by them - the major political party's chose to ignore him, he didn't quite fit in with The Old School Network, went to the 'wrong' private schools for Cameron / Clegg / Blair / Miliband etc.

I read a quote yesterday from a journalist in Scotland who said: 'The UKip is a Triumph Stag collectors club, that got out of hand'. Brilliant analogy