Animal cognition - do we underestimate our furry friends?

reply to post by Mads1987


Well, an aura as in colorful magnetic feild around the physical body. That interacts with ones environment and expresses inner health of a person.

Visually I can see auras always have been able to it tends to be the case that plants have a similar aura to humans. Whereas objects such as glass, wood, metal do not have the same auric vibration. Its more still...

Whereas plants can have similar colors as humans, and I might add that plants have been known to express different " moods" and " feelings". Hence in my mind there must be some form of " thought process".

reply to post by FreedomEntered


I don't base my life on the scientific principals. I'm not a positivist, who demands evidence for every little claim people make. Like if my friend tells me he saw a celebrity, I won't demand to see a picture before I believe him.

But when people make claims I don't understand or that are in conflict with my own world view, I find it appropriate to question it thoroughly.

reply to post by Mads1987


Yep, well its through seeing auras myself that I have noted the similarity between animals auras, plants and humans.

Whereas objects tend to have the same colors and they dont seem to change patterns and shape as much.

So it could be significant of energy. ....

reply to post by FreedomEntered


If that is truly the case, I urge you to do something about it. In the sense of proving it to the scientific community. Which should be fairly easy from the way you describe it.

But even though I would like to trust you. I simply can't trust such an amazing statement without actually having some evidence.

Originally posted by Mads1987
reply to post by pheonix358

 

The thing with the birds flying in flocks is actually easily explained with mathematics. It's a matter of birds always keeping the same relative distances to specific birds close to them, and since they all follows the same set of rules they manage not to collide. Same goes for fish.
Also they have a sense that allows them to sense the magnetism from the poles. Which helps them navigate the long distances.

To be honest, I think their is a fair chance that a dog would be able to smell it's owner at a pretty good distance. That might explain your dogs behavior. But they might have some intuitive sense that we aren't aware of. Who knows.

Maybe dogs have X-ray vision.. that would be awesome.

No offense intended. Your answers are the same type of answers that scientists give. Given without any checking as to the situation. No attempt to believe even in the possibility. Mankind is limited by his own ego.

I could be 5 minutes by bicycle peddling into a head wind. I could be 5 minutes out by car traveling at 35mph / 60kph, never made a difference. Additionally, the dog was in a closed house in winter. He did not smell me. Yet as expected you dismiss the claim so easily and shortly someone else is likely to say pics or it didn't happen and no research is done.

You have the birds doing math! I kid. Watch a video of the birds in action. Based on maths, no!



No, it is not math!

P

reply to post by Mads1987


Well its called Kirlian photography and I think a scientist discovered this and has already taken numerous photographs of different auras.

They are now studying water with the same process and its ability to carry information.

www.energymedc.com... For some photos , auras of life. Plant life mostly.

reply to post by pheonix358


There is a specific mathematical formula that can be typed into a computer simulator, which will allow for a flock of animated birds, or blocks to move precisely in the manner of the video you shared. It is math.

I'm not saying the birds are doing math. I'm not even saying that birds are aware of the beautiful patterns they make. They are just aware of how they position themselves compared to the birds close to them, and this behavior results in the patterns you see in the video.

flock simulation

This is not animated. The rute of one of these are most likely predetermined by the creator, but how the rest of the "birds" move, is a result of their programming reacting to each other.

I'm sorry I dismissed the story about your dog so fast. But your assumption about there being some form of unkown connection, is just as much guesswork as when I suggested that the dog could smell you.

Besides - how could you possibly know what your dog is doing when your not home?
I imagine your parents told you that the dog would be waiting for you every time, but simple fact is, that your observations or theirs aren't really that conclusive. Just curious.

Science is an approach. You have an hypothesis; your dog always knows when you are about to be home. Then you conduct an experiment to confirm, this hypothesis, and if it turns out to be true, then there is a good reason to look into how the dog knows this.
One way to test it, could be by limiting the dogs senses, and see if we can exclude some of them. Smell, hearing, sight etc..
And if a blind, deaf dog, with no sense of smell, still does the same thing. Then I'll be willing to admit that there is absolutely something there..
Then perhaps scan the dogs brain, see if there is any significant activity going on in different parts. Start figuring out to what extend these abilities work. And so on...

But yeah.. I am still skeptical.

Oh yeah.. and by the way. I NEVER believe anything. I can entertain ideas and I can make qualified guesses, but either I know something or I don't. Belief is to illusive to waste time on.
I feel fine admitting when there is something I simply don't know. In the case of you dog, I have no clue to how it does it. But we won't ever explain it by just asserting it has superpowers.

reply to post by FreedomEntered


I am familiar with Kirlian photography. I used to be a huge fan of Nikola Tesla, actually still am, and he also played around with it for a while.

Either way, my understanding is that no one has ever been able to find any significant patterns in the pictures. As in, they don't reflect health nor the mood of a person.

reply to post by Mads1987


Did you see the link I provided of the dead and alive cooked foods? They had very different auras. One was obviously more vibrant and the other was weaker and darker.

Anyway, for those who can see auras they always note before the end of a persons life the aura looks alot weaker. People who are in good health have larger and more interactive auras.

But coming to the point of animals, animals also have a similar auras to humans. Which I feel is proof that they are cognitive beings. Or " thinkers" in anycase any living thing is thinking... because we have to to " be" and " interact" but animals also have the same kind of patterns that we do.

Anyone can see auras, animals are much more aware of auras than humans.

When we used to have family " arguements" my dog would leave the room before even a raised voice started. He " felt" the atmosphere of the auras.

reply to post by FreedomEntered


That is pretty interesting that you are saying there.
The part with the food actually makes sense even without having anything to do with auras. Moisture, and structure has a huge influence on the behavior of patterns, brightness and color in Kirlian photography. So naturally a decomposed tomato would give off a weaker or a different one that a fresh one. As is shown on the website you linked to.

If you can indeed see something when you look at humans, it could be that you can see how well they conduct electricity.
Admittedly I find it unlikely. But it is actually quite interesting.

Once again, I would like to urge you to conduct some actually experiment, where you collect some data on this. Cause if you are right, we are indeed talking about something which could change the world.

Originally posted by Mads1987
The cognitive ability to ask questions is developed in humans around age four.

Not true. My daughter is 15 months and has been asking questions for several months.

Before that, we assume that everyone knows what we know. We aren't able to give negative answers

Also not true.

This can be demonstrated through a series of thought experiments.

One of which goes like this:
A child is introduced to two characters, who are standing in a room. They each have a basket, and one of them places a ball into his/her basket, and subsequently leaves the room. The other character then takes the ball and puts it in his/her own basket.
The child is then asked: Once the first person enters the room again, where will they look for the ball.

Before age four, children will usually insist that the character whom reentered the room, will look in the other characters basket. Cause the child assumes that the characters poses all the knowledge the child does.

Thinking that everyone knows what you know is not the same thing as thinking that no one knows anymore than you do. The above experiment is for the first part.

If the second part was true, we'd be just like the chimps.

reply to post by Nevertheless


I am sorry if I failed to explain this correctly. I am not an expert, just trying to simplify stuff I've read elsewhere. Children do ask question before the age of 4. Actually they do so from the point they can talk.
But the ability to fully appreciate the purpose of a question is something which isn't developed until later on in life.

Not sure I understand what you meant about the first part and the second part. I know that the experiment doesn't prove anybodies inability to ask questions, but rather that they fail to distinguish they own knowledge from others.

But if you don't believe me at all, I'll be happy to see if I can find you a link or two.

Originally posted by Mads1987
Not sure I understand what you meant about the first part and the second part. I know that the experiment doesn't prove anybodies inability to ask questions, but rather that they fail to distinguish they own knowledge from others.

With first and second part I meant that they do distinguish their own knowledge from others. Otherwise they wouldn't ask questions - just like the chimps don't.

So again,
--> Thinking that someone knows what you know Thinking that you know what they know

reply to post by Mads1987


Yep true.

They have already done a test that shows pigs can play computer games as good as any other human this sort of indicates that they have " reasoning" abilities

Also farm animals are massively under stimulated.

Go to any farm and see these animals eyes .. and you will know it.
Often they seek to look for an escape route.

I believe humans overestimate their intelligence relative to other life forms.
Take fish and birds for instance. The evolutionary history of these genus are much longer than that of mammals. I think there is a pretty good chance that birds and fish are vastly underestimated since they have had much more time for evolution to work. Ever notice how powerful birds are for their size? Their lungs and bones are highly evolved. I would say their brains probably are too.

reply to post by InverseLookingGlass


Excellent point. I've have never thought of it that way.

reply to post by InverseLookingGlass


Exactly!
Like these birds (drongos) are capable of deceit!

The bird that cries hawk

“Drongos are notorious thieves and mimics. In South Africa, I spent a morning with a meerkat researcher, following live meerkats. He said that he had anecdotal evidence that the fork-tailed drongo would sometimes mimic the predator alarm calls of meerkats while they were foraging and then swoop down to nick their unearthed morsels.”

Well that evidence is no longer anecdotal. In a new study published today, Tom Flower from the University of Cambridge has indeed found that fork-trailed drongos can deceive meerkats into scurrying for cover by making false alarm calls. It’s the bird that cries hawk.

In this TED talk you can see what primates are capable of.

Susan Savage-Rumbaugh has made startling breakthroughs in her lifelong work with chimpanzees and bonobos, showing the animals to be adept in picking up language and other "intelligent" behaviors

The gentle genius of bonobos

Skip to 10:40 for the writing part.
But I'd watch the whole thing if you can.

Cheers