Hello my question is that when many Western People say Muslims/Islam are/is Sexist against Women bec

Hello my question is that when many Western People say Muslims/Islam are/is Sexist against Women because many Muslim Women wear a Burqa/Veil/Hijab but I have met Muslims who claim the Western World oppresses Women because the West has Prostitution Pornography and Strip Clubs/Bars how do I respond to this claim ? In America we do have a Constitution so we could passlaws to outlaw Pornography if the people wanted them and Congress voted on this the Soviet Union was an Secular Atheist State and they banned/outlawed Pornography ? My final question is for a Woman to dress Modest does she need to wear a Burqa ?

Pornography was illegal in the USSR.

www.soviet-empire.com...

reply to post by mikejohnson2006


I believe the difference would be that western women are not forced into prostitution or pornography as many middle eastern women are forced into a certain lifestyle.

If the western women are forced into it then that is considered a crime and dealt with.

I am not an expert on the cultural differences so that is just my opinion of course.

The difference is choice, I think.

In the West, one chooses to view pornography or to pose for it. In some Islamic countries, the women have no choice under sharia law...they have to cover.

That's overly simplified, but there you go.

reply to post by mikejohnson2006


Ya,. . . What she said. ,. . .

Also,. . .. Muslims will gladly MURDER a girl for being raped because it is apparently he fault for allowing it.

And for ala to promise 12 Virgins OR how ever many says allot about a god who makes such promises.

And what about the women,. . How many virgins do they get when they die?

Originally posted by mikejohnson2006
how do I respond to this claim ?

Women aren't forced to participate in pornography or dance in strip clubs, nor are they banned from participating. They have the choice to do either, both, or none of those things. For those things to oppress women, women would have to be forced into or banned from participating.

In America we do have a Constitution so we could passlaws to outlaw Pornography if the people wanted them and Congress voted on this the Soviet Union was an Secular Atheist State and they banned/outlawed Pornography ?

We could, yes. But it won't happen. From what I understand, the pornography business is very profitable. There would have to be a massive uprising of the entire country against it before it would be banned. Not sure what the Soviet Union has to do with it though.

My final question is for a Woman to dress Modest does she need to wear a Burqa ?

The short answer is no. The long answer is that dressing modestly can be achieved without the use of a burqa by western standards because there are very few areas on the body that are deemed to be unsuitable for public showing.

reply to post by mikejohnson2006


Sexism is alive and well here in the west.

It's very troubling how we Americans lay so much judgement on Islam when we ourselves are a proud nation of sin.
However, the local news says we are "good guys".

American1: "a muslim believes in stoning women to death for being raped."

American2: "we should kill them all."

American1: "exactly"

It's $urreal over here.

The Soviet Union was a very large and diverse atheistic country. To be honest I do not know how accurate the information from your link is because there could be exceptions from the Soviet territories of the past. In my opinion I do not think women should be forced to do anything. But understand the danger themselves can get into in underground of sex. A lot of weird and dangerous people. It doesn't matter how you modest you dress or how kind of a person you are to others. People would use you like you were nothing but trash. We live in a harsh world.

reply to post by mikejohnson2006

Hello my question is that when many Western People say Muslims/Islam are/is Sexist against Women because many Muslim Women wear a Burqa/Veil/Hijab but I have met Muslims who claim the Western World oppresses Women because the West has Prostitution Pornography and Strip Clubs/Bars how do I respond to this claim ? In America we do have a Constitution so we could passlaws to outlaw Pornography if the people wanted them and Congress voted on this the Soviet Union was an Secular Atheist State and they banned/outlawed Pornography ? My final question is for a Woman to dress Modest does she need to wear a Burqa ?

Pornography was illegal in the USSR.

Good points. You are asking yourself all the right questions.

To most people, a muslim womans clothing is apparently a symbol of oppression.
Whereas when a western woman is used as a piece of meat in pornography, advertisements, films, tv shows and like you pointed out... strip clubs. etc., it is some sort of "freedom". The west celebrates the denigration of women.... while having the gall to point fingers at Muslims.

My final question is for a Woman to dress Modest does she need to wear a Burqa

A full face covering might be overdoing it, but its the womans choice.

Regarding the head covering, women in many cultures around the world cover their head...
Here are some examples-

Hindus



Sikh


Jewish


Amish


Mother Mary has always been depicted in a head covering

reply to post by ShadellacZumbrum

Also,. . .. Muslims will gladly MURDER a girl for being raped because it is apparently he fault for allowing it.

So all those news reports of Muslim countries executing rapists in public were all a figment of someones imagination then?

Originally posted by mikejohnson2006
Hello my question is that when many Western People say Muslims/Islam are/is Sexist against Women because many Muslim Women wear a Burqa/Veil/Hijab but I have met Muslims who claim the Western World oppresses Women because the West has Prostitution Pornography and Strip Clubs/Bars how do I respond to this claim ? In America we do have a Constitution so we could passlaws to outlaw Pornography if the people wanted them and Congress voted on this the Soviet Union was an Secular Atheist State and they banned/outlawed Pornography ? My final question is for a Woman to dress Modest does she need to wear a Burqa ?

Pornography was illegal in the USSR.

www.soviet-empire.com...

women can choose to do porn or strip, that is not oppression by any rational understanding of what oppression is.
muslim women are forced to wear the burqa or hijab or get harmed by zealots or even murdered over it, that is oppression.
any muslims who claims that doing porn by choice is oppression and forcing women to cover themselves lest men lose control of themselves is either an idiot or a liar.

it's bloody newspeak! freedom is oppression to them.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by ShadellacZumbrum

 

Also,. . .. Muslims will gladly MURDER a girl for being raped because it is apparently he fault for allowing it.

So all those news reports of Muslim countries executing rapists in public were all a figment of someones imagination then?

Can you provide a link to any such executions? I just googled 'Muslims kill rapists' and there were links for that.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

To most people, a muslim womans clothing is apparently a symbol of oppression.
Whereas when a western woman is used as a piece of meat in pornography, advertisements, films, tv shows and like you pointed out... strip clubs. etc., it is some sort of "freedom". The west celebrates the denigration of women.... while having the gall to point fingers at Muslims.

except no one is making the woman in the west wear the burqa, but in a lot of sharia based countries, women can be harmed for daring to not wear it.
since when is having a choice oppression? that is bloody freedom! the choice to do or not do something! you call giving women the choice denigration when a lot of muslim countries don't give women a choice in whether or not to wear a veil or the burqa?
the gall is that you think what you said is remotely sane or reasoned! no one has to do porn, they could choose not to, where is that choice in saudi arabia?

sure other countries aren't as extreme as SA, but some are still pretty bad when it comes to human rights.

A full face covering might be overdoing it, but its the womans choice.

that depends on the country.

Regarding the head covering, women in many cultures around the world cover their head...
Here are some examples-

Hindus



Sikh


Jewish


Amish


Mother Mary has always been depicted in a head covering

edit on 16-5-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

are they forced to? because all your examples are examples of traditional religious clothing within that group, hijab in a lot of muslim countries force it on women through law.
no one in the amish community is going to punish a woman for not wearing a bonnet, while you might get punished with jail time in iran.

reply to post by demongoat

since when is having a choice oppression? that is bloody freedom!

In that case, "freedom" also includes the choice to wear a burka or a hijab.

are they forced to? because all your examples are examples of traditional religious clothing within that group, hijab in a lot of muslim countries force it on women through law.

Why would anyone be forced to wear their own traditional clothing???
A hijab is as traditional / religious to a muslim woman as a sari is to a hindu woman.
Women in muslim countries governed by Shariah, understand it to be their religious duty and wear the hijab or whatever else they wear. Kind of like how the men have beards and wear things on their heads.

There are Muslim countries in which wearing the veil is not compulsory and plenty of women choose not to wear a head covering. In Turkey for instance not only is it not compulsory, it was against the law to wear a headscarf at Universities until only a few years ago. Now, it is permitted for woman to cover up, as it was said many women would not seek higher education unless permitted to wear the scarf. There were some protests against the amendment to the new laws, but they were defeated.

In Libya there was no compulsion to wear any type of head covering but there has been a shift in attitudes since the end of the Gaddafi regime. Albania is a European country with a Muslim majority, and again there is no compulsion for covering.

Obviously there are plenty of Islamic countries with a stricter adherence to the covering of the hair, but this is not a blanket assumption that can be made of all Muslim countries.

Interestingly, there is no direct reference in the Koran to the wearing of the Hijab; there's no commandment, nor direct quote either from Allah or Mohammed. There are Surahs which can be interpreted in a number of ways, and Islamic scholars can, and do argue these points. These however are interpretations - one Surah states that when one is in the house of the Prophet, one should not act familiar to the wives of the Prophet; one should act properly and cast the edyes down, as if a veil is present. This seems to address the men in my opinion, as one can hardly imagine woman venturing out on their own nto the house of Mohammed to gaze lustily upon his wives.

There are 'Hadiths' which mention the wearing of the veil, but there are differing schools of thought on the validity of some Hadith which may be split down sectarian (e.g. the Shia/Sunni) points of view.The Hadith are believed to be the sayings and customs of the prophet. The Sunni's follow them religiously, but the Shia's are much more critical and have discarded a large part of the Hadith that are seen as trustworthy by Sunni's. In the Hadith's may be seen direct references to the veil, but not the Koran.

It is certainly mistaken to view Islam as a monolithic entity with all Muslims believing exactly the same, but these nuances are often lost when viewing the religion through the Fox news/Pamela Geller/Anne Coulter prisms of disinformation and misinformation. You have variations from the mystical Sufi's, to the extremely hardline Wahabbi.

Currently the Muslic faith has taken a pronounced swing toward a more hardline fundamentalist point of view, but this trend has occured in Christianity and Judaism at different points in time. Around the 10-12th century Islam was far more liberal than the Catholicism of the same period. When the Muslim Moors ruled Spain, the Jewish and Muslim people lived together with a reasonable degree of cooperation and tolerance. With the coming to power of Isabel and Ferdinand, the Moors were forced out of the countriy, and Jews were dispossessed of their property and valuables and either forced to convert to Catholicism or leave the country (with plenty killed without being given much choice of anything). So began the Inquisition, and a far more rapacious way of life within lay the basis for the acquisition of gold by divine right (or manifest destiny), the founding of the Americas, and the modern age of today.

reply to post by jiggerj

Can you provide a link to any such executions? I just googled 'Muslims kill rapists' and there were links for that.

1. Saudi Arabia executes Pakistani for rape, murder

2.Iran executes five rapists

Judge Mohammad Erfan said before confirming the hangings yesterday: "Public executions reduce occurrence of offences. Rape is punished by death in our laws. The presence of so many people [to watch the hangings] also proves that they want divine verdicts enforced."

3. 3 convicted child rapists hanged in Iran

reply to post by demongoat

any muslims who claims that doing porn by choice is oppression...

Never said anything about doing porn by choice being "oppression"...

Interestingly, the Quran (Muslim holy book) states (numerous times) that men and women are equal, and yet in practice, mostly due to the male's role as "protector" (as defined in the Quran), women are secondary citizens and almost treated akin to property in many nations of the Middle East. Of course, having grown up in this culture, many such women don't feel this is a bad thing....yet the more exposure they have to the rest of the world, the more they are seeing it (and doing something about it).

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Yes, .. Most certainly. You should not let your imagination run wild.

And while you were watching the news did you happen to notice the rape victims being murdered for their crimes of being raped?

There are many different countries that punish rape victims crimes differently. It is typically by stoning to death or in some cases something like 100 lashes.

My point is that it is ALWAYS the victim’s fault. She should have NEVER allowed it to happen.

And by the way, .. did you also notice that the men who were executed were NOT being executed for rape but rather for MURDER. .. Did you get that at all?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Your Links are COMPLETELY FOULED.

To start off with if you look their REAL Crime was Murder.
Rape is something western society added to the news stories.
And your 3rd link for the boy being raped,. . Well, .. you can't do that to little boys .. It is AGAINST THE LAW. Girls are different in those countries.

reply to post by ShadellacZumbrum

Did you also notice that the men who were executed were NOT being executed for rape but rather for MURDER. .. Did you get that at all?

To start off with if you look their REAL Crime was Murder.

Did you also notice that in the second link, the judge said....

Rape is punished by death in our laws.

And the rapist said....

Payam Amini, one of the gang .... said just before he was executed: "We are guilty but we didn't kill anybody. We do not deserve to die."

Did you get that at all?