A.T.S and the Military what is the deal?

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
I just have to ask, what kind of world do some of you live in?

In the real world, the military in America is wholly controlled by the civillian government.


If you are so anti military you can't see the need of killing others, under any situation, your lying to yourselves, and living in a delusion.

There are sheep and wolves, it is a fact, wolves eat sheep, sheep are defenseless against them, so a sheep dog is necessary to defend them.

Who do you complain about? The sheep for being to weak to defend themselves? The sheep dog for being capable of and fulfilling a necessary violent role? The wolf for being hungry enough to kill a sheep in the first place? The herdman for having the sheep in the first place, which causes the entire situation? Or maybe god for not making all life herbavores, or even god for causing hunger in the first place?

Seeing as you called me ignorant already..try this for size.
You support an invading army. INVADING. And invading army is not protecting anyone fool. An invading army is invading and empire building. And you call me ignorant? You are the height of ignorance.

Wolves and sheep, how old are you...12?

If people came to my town and started going house to house killing people I would, like most normal civilians, go on the attack to PROTECT MYSELF AND MY HOME., I don't need an army doing it for me. Also, I certainly don't need an army protecting me in AFGHANISTAN OR IRAQ etc,etc,etc. The Boston Bombers proved along with Tim McVeigh before them, that you have plenty of home grown terrorists as it is...so what you gonna do..OH GET THE ARMY TO PROTECT YOU FROM THEM. GREAT IDEA.

If someone messes with me I protect myself, i dont go to a couple of countries where they dont even come from to blow the hell out of the infrastructure there etc etc etc and pee everyone off who lives there..etc..etc...etc...and make myself a hell of alot more enemies...etc...etc...etc...But supposedly its me who is the ignorant one is it.

When I see service men with limbs blown off, I feel terrible for them, especially as most of them are young and joined the military thinking they were making a difference and thinking they were protecting their homeland...Only to discover it was all BS and all for oil...Oh but im ignorant. Actually blindly supporting something that isn't working, supporting something which is counter productive and spawning more hate...now that's ignorant.

And yes frankly, Id question anyone's judgement who joins the US or UK military. When was the last time any of those armies actually defended their homelands???????? Oh I think the USA DEFENDED themselves against the British in the revolutionary war that ended in 1783. Oh and WW2 with peal Harbor which many people have another version of at any rate, im not saying that was a false flag but others have said it..and the term false flag would not even be in existence in conspiracy forums, if the actual term wasn't indeed a real one,, which has been proven to have been used more than once in real life.

Vietnam was not defending anyone either, it was an attempt to stop the global spread of "communism"..not a defense of America. At least your analogy about the civilian population being sheep was correct. Everyone knows most people who join the militarily come form working class backgrounds, with limited opportunities. If everyone had a middle class or higher education, I don't think they would be joining the military willingly, the government would have to bring back conscription.

reply to post by inverslyproportional

Militaries exist, because if they didn't, others would use theirs to take what they want.

So, Your military exists...because other's military exist....and I presume their's exist because your exists. What wonderful world of circular logic we live in.

For a moment there I thought I was confused...but now I get it...carry on.

reply to post by zonetripper2065


So why are they blaming the sheep dog for doing as it is intended, and not the herdsman who is setting it on everyone?

Fact- not following a lawfully given order can result in substantial prison time.

Fact- the idiots you guys keep voting for( bush obama) are responsible for issuing these orders, the blame falls squarely on them, not the soldiers who are legally bound by unbreakable contract to follow all orders, with the single exception of unlawful orders.

What's an unlawful order? Fact- the president is allowed by law to send troops anywhere for any reason within maximum troop numbers limits and time constraints without congressional approval.

It is the civies that are killing innocents, not soldiers, hold those accountable that are the root cause, instead of blaming the people that are simply doing what they are contractually bound, by the force and letter of the law to do.

Just because it is morally wrong doesn't make it illegal, just because you don't like it doesn't make it illegal, just because one doesn't like the orders does not relieve them of their obligation to follow all orders save unlawfully given ones.

There is a large difference between what one finds morally wrong, and what it illegal, don't confuse the 2 just because you want to bitch and moan.

Every single innocent killed by the military since feb 2 of 08 is squarely on obamas head.

Just like those after 01 till 08 are on bushes head.

I don't understand how this obvious fact that is smacking you in the face is somehow over looked.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by zonetripper2065

 

So why are they blaming the sheep dog for doing as it is intended, and not the herdsman who is setting it on everyone?

Fact- not following a lawfully given order can result in substantial prison time.

Fact- the idiots you guys keep voting for( bush obama) are responsible for issuing these orders, the blame falls squarely on them, not the soldiers who are legally bound by unbreakable contract to follow all orders, with the single exception of unlawful orders.

What's an unlawful order? Fact- the president is allowed by law to send troops anywhere for any reason within maximum troop numbers limits and time constraints without congressional approval.

It is the civies that are killing innocents, not soldiers, hold those accountable that are the root cause, instead of blaming the people that are simply doing what they are contractually bound, by the force and letter of the law to do.

Just because it is morally wrong doesn't make it illegal, just because you don't like it doesn't make it illegal, just because one doesn't like the orders does not relieve them of their obligation to follow all orders save unlawfully given ones.

There is a large difference between what one finds morally wrong, and what it illegal, don't confuse the 2 just because you want to bitch and moan.

Every single innocent killed by the military since feb 2 of 08 is squarely on obamas head.

Just like those after 01 till 08 are on bushes head.

I don't understand how this obvious fact that is smacking you in the face is somehow over looked.

The fact you think people actually can choose the system that they live under proves your not too smart. It dont matter if its Bush or Obama, the next guy will be the same capitalist extremist...its a two party state, which really means its a one party state, they just give you the illusion of choice. In case you didn't know...most people dont vote, because they know its a waste of time. There is NO CHOICE. And before you talk about over throwing the whole machinery of government and the entire establishment, well then the so called Shepard would set his dog on the sheep...That's how ignorant you are. the military is part of the problem. its too big and too powerful, just like Eisenhower warned and when you hear rampant blind support for the military industrial complex...that is mostly born out of the fear of not agreeing with it...or can you not see that..because people are indeed afraid and i mean Americans are afraid of their own military.

Why do you think people are afraid of martial law or having their guns taken away from them...because their can only be martial law if the military enforce it...duh...and we can have the same men in the military saying they don't agree with it but hey..orders are orders...Didnt i see a tank rolling down the streets of Boston recently...and the gunner pointing up into a window..Oh because a guy had the nerve to LOOK OUT HIS WINDOW.

Clown...its a word I am not specifically aiming at you...but im gonna leave it sitting there for you any way.

reply to post by Reaper2137


It's like they tell us during our BMQ in the Canadian Forces..Don't ever expect anyone to thank you for your service or even to care that you've served. To some we're just a tax money pit until they need people like us and then it switches pretty quickly to cries for help from the very same people that would not think twice about belittling us.if they didn't need our sort. Far as I'm concerned though, I did my time and really couldn't care less about such people. They didn't show any respect when they didn't need me so let's see how well they do on their own. To me, that's darwinism at it's finest where the weak are weeded out by their sheer ignorance and stupidity...sorry...pseudo rant.....Gee I'm not disgruntled at all eh?

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


I don't see how addressing reality, that is historically accurate, is circular logic.

Fact- there has always been groups that will attempt to dominate others through violence.

Fact- these groups have been known through threat of pain and or death to force others to help them continue this conduct.

Your entire stance comes from the standpoint that there is an actual state of human life that is peaceful, this is incorrect.

Laws are back by the threat of force for noncompliance, so not even civillian law is peaceful.

The world is founded in violence, all the way from the lowliest life form to to the highest, it takes death to feed life.

All things, when they die, usually do so in a violent manner, because it was violence that killed them, and they used violence to try to defend them selves before they died.

Animals don't act peacefully because it is a farse, an illusion, a fairy tale created by men, there has never been a state of peace on this planet at any level at all since the first lifeform became hungry.

There never will be, as death is a part of life.

Viruses invade, and force your living cells to create their armies so they can spread, at the end the cell explodes releasing many more viruses to do the same, your body respondes by creating a army of white blood cells to surround and consume the viruses.

Violence even at the microscopic level, it is all there is in the world, one side strives to live at the expense of the other, the other side resists to the best of its ability, somtimes failing, others winning and killing its attacker, preserving its life at the expense of anothers.

This is obvious and readily viewable at every scale, yet somehow you have missed it, how is that, either your not smart enough to see the obvious, which I don't like th thought of. Or you intentionally lie to yourself to shield yourself from the harsh reality of life because you can't come to grips with it.

Either way, one day youmight not be able to stay in your fantasy world, because an attacker will come for you, what will you do then? Deny it thinking it will go away because you don't believe?

If this is your only defense against aggression, I hoppe this trait is not hereditory, for your proginies sake.

Survival of the fittest, and only the strong survive are not just memes, they are facts of all the life on this planet.

Your thoughts that this is not the case somehow put you in the vast minority, and set you apart as the weakest links in the food chain, easy marks, that don't even understand it takes violence to defeat violence, always has always will.

Sorry to be so harsh, but reality doesn't use kid gloves, it is what it is, and nothing you think or want can ever change that.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


The fact you think so lowly of your fellow man says a lot, it says you think yourself smarter and better than most, which is a fallacy on your part, I have a quite high IQ, acoring a 99 on my asfab for the military, it is a necessity to score very high to be a 13-E cannon fire direction control specialist, it is an exacting job with a lot of critical thinking skills needed.

I don't think myself so lofty as to know better for aothers what is right, instead I am smart enough to know, there are many ways and paths in this world.

It takes all kinds, not just the kinds you like, to make this world go round.

I have not insulted or called anyone names, funny how those opposing my view can't claim the same.

Someone even acted like the word ignoarant was an insult, where as it simply means that one lacks knowledge of a given subject.

It doesn't mean they are stupid or unable to learn, it only means they haven't learned yet.

This is where I find your position comming from, ignorance.

I am wholly against what happened in boston, I even argued against the use of troops their gear and the reckless pretending of the use of their tactics in a civillian urban setting. For more than 39 pages and over 700 posts, with members and mods myself and several others tried to talk sense into posters who supported the martial law tactics.

I do not support what happened, and will say again, it was direct violation of the law, and the rights of American citizens.

Iraqis don't have the same civil rights as Americans under American law, not morally correct in my oppinion, but legally speaking, which is what matters when a troop decides to disregard orders, if a troop doesn't follow an lawfully given order, he WILL get to see the inside of " lovely" fort levenworth kansas for up to 15 years, maybe longer depending on the nature of his disregard of said lawfully given orders.

Moral rejection of ordered actions is not a lawful exception.

The civillian police don't suffer the same perils, they can quit anytime of their choosing, they are responsible for their actions in a more direct manner, hence my outrage of their actions in boston, in violating rights, and not questioning their orders, as that is a luxury that they have that soldiers don't.

I don't expect to you to see where I come from on these issues, but would appreciate your taking a couple of minutes to ponder these words and the differences between local law enforcement and soldiers, and the laws and rights of our country vs another, before condemning our soldiers actions, while not responsible to the fire for what they do.

It is the head of the snake, it is riddled with rot, it should be removed before t

Originally posted by TheBlackHat

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
I just have to ask, what kind of world do some of you live in?

In the real world, the military in America is wholly controlled by the civillian government.


If you are so anti military you can't see the need of killing others, under any situation, your lying to yourselves, and living in a delusion.

There are sheep and wolves, it is a fact, wolves eat sheep, sheep are defenseless against them, so a sheep dog is necessary to defend them.

Who do you complain about? The sheep for being to weak to defend themselves? The sheep dog for being capable of and fulfilling a necessary violent role? The wolf for being hungry enough to kill a sheep in the first place? The herdman for having the sheep in the first place, which causes the entire situation? Or maybe god for not making all life herbavores, or even god for causing hunger in the first place?

Seeing as you called me ignorant already..try this for size.
You support an invading army. INVADING. And invading army is not protecting anyone fool. An invading army is invading and empire building. And you call me ignorant? You are the height of ignorance.

Wolves and sheep, how old are you...12?

If people came to my town and started going house to house killing people I would, like most normal civilians, go on the attack to PROTECT MYSELF AND MY HOME., I don't need an army doing it for me. Also, I certainly don't need an army protecting me in AFGHANISTAN OR IRAQ etc,etc,etc. The Boston Bombers proved along with Tim McVeigh before them, that you have plenty of home grown terrorists as it is...so what you gonna do..OH GET THE ARMY TO PROTECT YOU FROM THEM. GREAT IDEA.

If someone messes with me I protect myself, i dont go to a couple of countries where they dont even come from to blow the hell out of the infrastructure there etc etc etc and pee everyone off who lives there..etc..etc...etc...and make myself a hell of alot more enemies...etc...etc...etc...But supposedly its me who is the ignorant one is it.

When I see service men with limbs blown off, I feel terrible for them, especially as most of them are young and joined the military thinking they were making a difference and thinking they were protecting their homeland...Only to discover it was all BS and all for oil...Oh but im ignorant. Actually blindly supporting something that isn't working, supporting something which is counter productive and spawning more hate...now that's ignorant.

And yes frankly, Id question anyone's judgement who joins the US or UK military. When was the last time any of those armies actually defended their homelands???????? Oh I think the USA DEFENDED themselves against the British in the revolutionary war that ended in 1783. Oh and WW2 with peal Harbor which many people have another version of at any rate, im not saying that was a false flag but others have said it..and the term false flag would not even be in existence in conspiracy forums, if the actual term wasn't indeed a real one,, which has been proven to have been used more than once in real life.

Vietnam was not defending anyone either, it was an attempt to stop the global spread of "communism"..not a defense of America. At least your analogy about the civilian population being sheep was correct. Everyone knows most people who join the militarily come form working class backgrounds, with limited opportunities. If everyone had a middle class or higher education, I don't think they would be joining the military willingly, the government would have to bring back conscription.

edit on 13-5-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)

beautifully said my friend

i couldn't have said it better myself

You join to serve and protect your country.

The geopolitics of the day says that defend your country you need to be here doing this and that in some other place in order to defend said country, said by the politicians you elect.

What the hell can I do?

Well no one join up then.

Good luck with that.

reply to post by Reaper2137

Quite bluntly, people that have disdain for our military are spoiled brats, that can't or won't understand that without them, we would still be under the foot of King George, or even worse, flying the swastika over our capital as part of Hitler's empire.
There is nothing unpatriotic about being opposed to POLICIES established by our politicians, but people need to be able to separate those policies from the heroic men and women who swore to defend this country, and obey their superiors.
If people don't like the policies, then they need to elect leaders that generate policies that they agree with, or if those leaders break their promise, then DON'T ELECT THEM AGAIN! I seem to remember Obama promising to bring all our troops home, and closing Gitmo. How did that work out?

reply to post by Reaper2137


Right on Brother Veteran! Thanks for speaking out..........

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Thanks for the inspirational words, I just gave it up mid post, as it occured to me I was simply hitting head against a brickwall of ignorance.

Too bad more people can't seem to grasp what to many seems to be so simple a concept.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


This is one of the most ignorant posts I have seen a long while.

Quite bluntly, people that have disdain for our military are spoiled brats, that can't or won't understand that without them, we would still be under the foot of King George, or even worse, flying the swastika over our capital as part of Hitler's empire.

We have disdain for your military's murderous actions, sue me if you don't like it, and it sure as # does not make me a spoiled brat that does not understand the big picture, in fact, it appears to be YOU who has fallen victim to the military cult that plagues ATS and society in general. I bet you didn't know that American financial institutions helped fund the Nazi war machine and they flew the Nazis (The real bad ones) into the USA and gave them new identities so they can use their "expertise" in various fields. You are all over the place man.

There is nothing unpatriotic about being opposed to POLICIES established by our politicians, but people need to be able to separate those policies from the heroic men and women who swore to defend this country, and obey their superiors.

Blind patriotism is a plague that must be cured. May I ask you exactly who these "heroic" men and women are protecting you from and how are they defending your country? And what is heroic about their acts? The last time I checked blindly following orders was not very heroic, especially if these orders kill innocent people on a daily basis.

As I said in my previous post, a gang member shooting up another rival gang member over drug territory since their superior ordered them to do so falls into the same category but you will not accept this since it does not fit your perceived realm of normality that obviously has been warped somewhere along the way. At least a gang member knows what their true intentions are. Same # different pile.

If people don't like the policies, then they need to elect leaders that generate policies that they agree with, or if those leaders break their promise, then DON'T ELECT THEM AGAIN! I seem to remember Obama promising to bring all our troops home, and closing Gitmo. How did that work out

Elections don't work, if you all support the troops as much as you say you do, you would be rioting in front of the White House and demanding their safety and return home...instead you find baseless reasons to justify their actions...but yeah...let's blame the current president...it's not like this endless cycle hasn't been going on for decades

Is this what you call heroism in the form of defending your country?

It was all great until my brother came back from the military and he had his own variety of brainwashing. There's military then civilian, there's military rights then there are civilian rights, he kept trying to impose on those around him. He thought he deserved more freedoms than everybody else because of his service. Then I left listening to him and found myself observing an ugly world of military dropouts and what might be called graduates but I don't know if they can call themselves veterans. Gang members joining so they can get killing skills. Marines and illegal drugs and organized crime.

They act so proud but I'm ashamed of their image of hypocrisy towards the larger law of the USA. They have lip service at their bases and their bosses there (whatever the military term is for their bosses are) command orders to follow the rules, but then these men go home and they take off their hat and it's a hypocrtical world.

So I'm disenchanted with the chemical integrity of the military I've witnessed. The nation has evolved and so has my regard for it's systems. Mabye it has been going on for a long time ever since drugs were a problem, maybe it's a trend of "bad general syndrome" somewhere up the chain of command. It has changed my mind, and now I imagine that there are a bunch of addicts fighting wars, and I fret that their lack of integrity will be a weakness in the world for our nation.

I don't give regard to special privileges to usurp their own laws for those who wear special embroidery. That means, the law stands even for the ranked ones, and I expect it, but it isn't going as I expected.

It could be any country, any military of any nation in any lifetime I might be living. I'm not likely to see it from the degraded brainwashed perspective of well at least it isn't as bad as that other military over there; no I have relatives in WWI, WWII, Korean War, Gulf War, and probably going back to wars through thousands of years, so I can figure the value of a solid soldier and a good defense group, and the ones about me in my nation and neighborhoods, the ones I've seen could be improved in character and reputation with regards to the drug laws.

When they're in the war they're soldiers. When they are not fighting, they are called neighbors, and family, and friends. But that sense of entitlement isn't welcome by me when it's used to push around civilians. That's the deal.

Aside from the purpose of the military all civilians seem to forget ,we are different now.What we saw was inhuman and wrong that experience has locked us into whom we now are.So heres the deal. We have the ability to do these things that way YOU won't have to.If we didn't join then there would be a draft, without compliance there would be martial law. Better myself who can and in fact has done it, than you who can't or won't because it will be done as the POTUS wishes it to be done,by US laws.
Another thing I have seen.When a civilian asks about something militarily and we answer them they insult us by something they've read or another non military source contradicting what we know so well.
They also believe when we answer their queries we somehow endorse the action we describe,which is not the case.

Like it or not the longer a war goes on the more negative the reaction will be to those who participate in it.

If you were a volunteer in it I suggest some restraint is in order against the percieved backlash. The longer a hot war goes on the hotter opinions will become.

The Global War on Terror is the USA's longest hot war in recorded history and there is no end in sight. So its pretty clear that opinions will continue to worsen.

We have recently been involved in SEVERAL unpopular military engagements which are highly questionable under international law, so it isn't too surprising that there is an uptick in anti-military sentiment.

Still, I think you'll find that the board itself (as a whole) is pretty pro-military and thankful of the service our soldiers (no matter which nation) have done. There are a few ex-military amongst the staff even.

There are quite a few ex-military members here as well, and you'll find a lot of their expertise in the more military-themed forums (such as weaponry, aircraft, survival, etc.)

The Global War on Terror is the USA's longest hot war in recorded history and there is no end in sight. So its pretty clear that opinions will continue to worsen.

How do you come to the END of a war on an IDEA?

reply to post by Frith


So if we end this war, everything bad just goes away, the enemies become peaceful, the world will be a perfect place, evil will vanish and everyone lives happily ever after?

Heck if that is true, we don't need a military or weapons of any kind.

Unfortunately dreams and fantasies never reflect reality.

I suspect part of the answer is in the internet itself. Bottom line is there is no possible way to verify anything that is posted as "fact". Agendas, money and bias rules the day.

Personally, I base my views on empirical evidence and then "cherry pick" data that reinforces my views. I therefore am prone to ignore opinions that conflict with my life experiences.

The problem is I don't know when I'm right or wrong, not for sure...at least not always...

Honest debate is not possible when there is no trust/belief that the other person isn't saddled by agenda, activism, insanity or just old fashion "# disturbing".

We all lie. Even if only to ourselves or only occasionally. Intermittent honesty rarely occurs at the same time for both posters....

I guess the forums must be relegated to entertainment rather than enlightenment. It's too hard to separate the wheat from the chaff....

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by TheBlackHat

 

The fact you think so lowly of your fellow man says a lot, it says you think yourself smarter and better than most, which is a fallacy on your part, I have a quite high IQ, acoring a 99 on my asfab for the military, it is a necessity to score very high to be a 13-E cannon fire direction control specialist, it is an exacting job with a lot of critical thinking skills needed.


It is the head of the snake, it is riddled with rot, it should be removed before t

Yes, you called me ignorant first actually..and yes to call someone ignorant is an insult...so lets not play childish games here, with BS passive aggressiveness...As far as me thinking Im smarter than you..lets be honest you are debating me and i am debating back that would indicate both of us thinks he is smarter than the other..difference is at least I can admit it.....but ill let the other posters on this thread judge who really is the smartest out of us two, as I am hardly impartial on the matter...You already made ridiculous assumptions and judgments about me stating that supposedly I think so lowly of my fellow man..please...i don't shoot at my fellow man...do you???

Whenever you state what happened in Boston was illegal...um...well according to international law the invasion of Iraq was illegal..and as the USA signed up to the UN charter, then yes, the USA has a habit of breaking "the law"..yet you support broken laws and broken invasions when it suits you...so lets talk about ignorance now..
You cannot call a military that invades a military that is protecting anyone...If you support empire building and oil wars fine, just be honest and say that you support empire building and stealing other countries assets and resources at the expense of civilian lives and the expense of your own troops.

Look, you cant make an omelette without breaking eggs, and empires are not built with candy floss and handshakes. I would have respect for someone who said they support the empire, end of conversation, I might not agree with them but id say they were honest and if you want an empire you have to spill blood and make sacrifices in order to build it and maintain it..lets not be naive or ridiculous about it..every empire in history has been unwanted by the countries it rolled over..OBVIOUSLY..Do you think the Romans were popular??? Do you think the British were popular??? Of course not, but at least their people knew what an empire was and that they were part of it...rather than this ridiculous and yes..IGNORANT mentality of "I support our troops because they are protecting me"...WAKE UP...Say you support the empire and I have no problem with that attitude.. Empires are good for the people who belong to them..not so good for the countries they invade and steal from...so if your American its natural for you to support wars .....what i don't respect is someone saying they support their military "protecting them" when clearly their military are not currently protecting anyone but on a long term course of empire building.

Don't you realize the USA has a military base in almost every country on earth...A military base on almost ever country...IS AN EMPIRE. I don't know why your ashamed to accept it for what it is, whats the issue here? Cant you take the fact that your not going to be liked by everyone because you have an empire????? Seriously is that it???? I don't think any country invaded in history has been grateful to the invaders for invading...I mean really...But that's right your liberators, you expect to liberate the oil and be thanked for it...Seriously...and im ignorant.

Back in the day when europe went to the middle east and conducted hundreds of years of crusades...1095-1291. they did it to crush Muslim influence and reassert christian influence in the region...if I was Richard the Lion heart id probably have done the same thing, but i wouldn't pretend it was to protect my own country hahahahaha.

If it wasn't for the empires we wouldn't have much of the wealth and infrastructure we have in the west today, whilst the third world..where we mostly stole everything from...stlll laggs behind because our former empires stole all their wealth and recourses..where do you think all the gold and slaves came from hahahaha. We set places like Africa back hundreds of years...its not pretty, but this is the REALITY of an empire. Accept it instead of telling me and everyone else its done to protect the folks back home..it only makes you sound like an idiot to me, but as I said other people can judge who is the fool here. Also weather of not you agree with a countries leadership or not...there is to liberation unless the people of that country specifically ask to be liberated...

Your so politically correct in the states you cant handle what you really are...quite funny..your an empire...you INVADE to EXPAND...get over it.