A.T.S and the Military what is the deal?

First of all OP thank you for your service and my freedom! I love, and have the utmost respect for the men and women of the military, past, present and future!

I agree with you 100%, I have noticed this trend for a long time.. I will speak for the USA only. Our government is more concerned about being politically correct than remembering what values and sacrifice the country was founded on. I t is truly sick! Unfortunately, that view has trickled down to several not only here in the U.S. but many others in the Western World, thanks largely to the inept leadership of Barrack Obama! I still believe we have a chance to restore this country to what it once was, what you fought for!

Due to the views and outspokenness of many progressives on here this trend will most likely continue! Thanks for letting me share!

Pax

Vet here and many comments already posted i agree with.

I have not noticed to much vet bashing or military myself but i would like to add this is a international board.

America and U.S. servicemen and women are not universally loved throughout the world. Because we were soldiers once we represent some of the preceived ills of the world that some overseas believe the cause was the U.S. government and it's policies. You can usually tell by someones rant or written response they know nothing about the military except what some ********* has told them that might have watched Apocalypse Now.

There used to be a saying that if someone were not a socialist in there 20 then they had no heart. If by the age of 40 if they are not a fiscal conservative they have no brain.....Allot of truth in that IMO....Many young people think all the worlds problems could be solved by talking....I wish it were so....but the places I have been to or read about all that does is get your tongue cut out....or worse.

Sorry..... totally..... you were injured... life can be a bitc* and then we die. But if we live our life with honor and a belief we did good then it was a life better spent than some. Salute.

reply to post by Reaper2137

The military is the villain in a lot of conspiracy theory narratives, or at least a willing henchman. It's only natural there will be some animosity toward individual members or service in general. You are, after all, an "insider," and very likely complicit in if not culpable for Roswell, MKULTRA, COINTELPRO, the creation of Al Qaeda, 9/11, Benghazi, NSA wiretaps, not letting us look at all the cool stuff in Area 51, and of course the implementation of martial law which we all know is right around the corner. Many people on this site sincerely believe that you or someone like you will deprive them of their rights, their liberty, and their life. These people aren't going to approve of military service.

But sheepdogs never really seek the approval of the sheep, do they?

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The
difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn’t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports, in camouflage fatigues, holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, “Baa.” Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

asp.militarygear.com...

I agree with you reaper. ATS has become more anti- military than I can remember. I've been with the forum for a few years now I guess, and have become friends with a few on here during this time. Of course all military in some form or of the same thinking capacity.

There are some here who call us mindless machines and things as such. That's fine though. Sticks and stones you know. It's nothing.

My thing is how in the world would they protect without a military?!?!.

They hate us, but need us. And if they say they don't need us, then they need to read a little history on military success and failures; how the latter lead to the take over and domination there after.

People seem to think there are no countries whom lie in wait for the opportunity to destroy our country. Foolishly believing we don't need a military.

Ugh.

This is a non issue brother. Some fools will spit in our faces, the smart ones will make way for us to do what we volunteered to do.

If you must pray, pray that all of human kind could find a peaceful manner to deal with issues. If not, then pray that we took our training seriously and were not distracted by wormtounge's. if not, then pray that we defeat those who mean to cause death and destruction to our families, home, and way of life.

I keep in mind that the ones who talk about us wrongly are the same ones who would betray our country. Selling us out the enemy.

Cowards they are.

My CO always says " followers discuse problems, leaders discuse answers"

So, again brother, this is not a problem. Autrition will fix this without us lifting a finger.

The answer here is not to be distracted by these people. Keep your mind sharp. Humble yourself within your flaws. Continue to better yourself. Accept humility. Forego pride. And love the ones who love you, protect the ones who can't protect themselves.

Lastly, stand shoulder to shoulder with your brothers and sisters.

We got this!

It's to easy.

Clear up, left.....

reply to post by TheBlackHat


Most of the people in the military, like the rest of the country, drink the kool aid and buy into all the crap they feed you. Then there are a lot of people who are just very young and oblivious to anything going on outside of their job and women on their off time. Most do not even realize how much we are lied to, or that they are being lied to at all. At least that's how it was when the wars first started.

I was one of the latter until about 2008 when the economy tanked. Now I know better.
Now I'm older and in charge of more stuff I can make sure the young Marines are aware and able to think for themselves. Hopefully they can make the right decisions when the time comes.

reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli


Not to start any trouble haha...the analogy of the sheep and the sheep dog is being used here, to illustrate how the civilians are the sheep and the military are the sheep dog?

well if you follow through with that analogy, the sheep dog is only protecting the sheep from the wolf because the sheep belong to the Shepard and are the asset of the Shepard, who is inevitably only going to exploit and kill the sheep himself anyway...So more importantly the sheepdog is herding and controlling the sheep, on the orders of the Shepard. The Shepard keeps the flock of sheep, in order to fleece them and slaughter them...may as well get eaten by the wolf in that case haha.

reply to post by watchitburn


Thanks for the reply, as it sounds like your a serving military man. The reason I appreciate your response, is because I tried to give my true opinion as a civilian and an outsider, without being ignorant or disrespectful. As I stated I know good and not so good men join armies, the people in the military are representative of society as a whole as I am sure you can testify to that..it's not all good in civilian life and im sure it's the same inside the military.

Those who join for the right reasons I commend. those who can stick to their own consciences I commend higher than anyone in any walk of life, because the peer pressure in the military will be on a level most ordinary people will never experience and that's aside from having to take direct orders that may conflict with your personal beliefs. So if you can serve your country and come out the other side knowing you did everything you believe in was right, then that truly is honorable and anyone who can truly say that has my highest respect. You sir sound like a man with integrity such as that.

Its easy for people to come on here and say negative things but its also easy for people to blow trumpets, often one is as ignorant as the other. Thanks again for the reply.

Peace activists, liberals, hippies, Occupiers, progressives, or whatever they call it now..

They are programmed to always have contempt for the military, soldiers, law enforcement and of course people who have been successful in life.

It's so well implanted in the minds of the afflicted that their responses and reactions are incredibly predictable, it is a herd mentality, a leftover from cold war era psychological operations.

I have great respect for those who served in the military. I also have a great respect for the countries armed forces. They are there for our protection and to insure our way of life. I don't always agree with everything the military does but still respect it. Maybe it is because I know lots of people who have served or are serving in the military that I have this attitude. \

Flyboys don't usually know much about carpentry but I can't fly a bomber either. I tutored a few that wanted to build decks back in the late eighties.

reply to post by Reaper2137


That has always made me frustrated.

Those who see the military as an arm of the this or that nefarious group. It very well could be but I am tired of lazy Americans abdicating any and all responsibility as a citizen. The military goes nowhere without those in DC giving the green light. The same ones Americans voted into office. So, either by their action or inaction, the military goes where the American public wants them to go.

Originally posted by ausername
Peace activists, liberals, hippies, Occupiers, progressives, or whatever they call it now..

They are programmed to always have contempt for the military, soldiers, law enforcement and of course people who have been successful in life.

It's so well implanted in the minds of the afflicted that their responses and reactions are incredibly predictable, it is a herd mentality, a leftover from cold war era psychological operations.

Yes, that's exactly what it is. We're all brainwashed hippy cowards.

If it were up to me none of you military folk would have jobs. You'd be doing civilian work, going home to your families. And you're not helping by the way, meandering into those damned recruiting offices? Then re-enlisting for more? I cant keep you from landing on foresaken shores of godless # piles if you don't quit signing up for it.

Nothing.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


Your first post about the minds and actions of military service members is very ignorant and uninformed.

Soldiers are not comparable to inanimate objects, and are not mindless tools that blindly follow orders.

I will explain it for you, since you lack understanding on the subject.

Soldiers volunteer to serve their fellow man, then they get orders to go to say iraq.

They don't get ordered to go out and kill 37 people, they are ordered to go out on a patrol or recon etc...

The 37 people they kill are killed for attacking them in the first place. The soldiers are defending themselves and their buddies, not murdering in cold blood on orders to do so, like they are assassins in assassins creed or somthing.

Maybe you should get to know a soldier or a few, we are not bad people, and most are very good natured and very loving folks.

They just happen to also be the people brave enough to face danger to protect others.

Some people are born brave, others become that way through experience or training, just like some will always be to cowardl y to risk themselves for another, or lack themoral compass to know the difference between murder, and defending life from evil men, by using deadly force when necessary.

This is not now, nor will it ever be a perfect world, this world is filled with evil and hate and suffering, and there will always be a need for men to kill men, because some will not live peacably, they will dominate others or die trying.

Just the way things are unfortunately, soldiers are a natural response to human nature, without evil men, there would be no need of them, while they exist, I am glad there are those like myself and my brothers in arms that do the ugly business that needs to be done.

So far in this thread I have seen supporters of military insult people who want to live in a peaceful world (peace activists), people who want to live in a clean, unpolluted environment (tree huggers), people who just want to live their lives and be left alone (hippies), people who support a more fair economic system (occupiers), you've referred to civilians as sheep to be herded, controlled, fleeced and slaughtered by the military and those who control it, and so on. You're not helping your argument here, ladies and gentlemen. Just saying...

I wrote a very long response for this thread, but I'm afraid it would be lost among the vitriol coming from both sides of this debate, so I decided against posting it, because it holds a view that disagrees with both sides on some points, and agrees with both on others. Plus I don't think many people have the attention span to read it.

I will say this, however, to both sides of the argument. Consider the others' perspective.

Consider that not all soldiers are war-mongering murderers. They too have families and perhaps even a desire for peace, though it may seem they go about it in a somewhat odd manner. Maybe they see fighting as the quickest path to that end. I know for a fact there are causes I would go to war for.

Also, consider that those you look down on as dirty hippies, or tree huggers (this one is particularly offensive to me, as I rather like trees, especially old ones), or lazy occupiers, or spineless cowards, or what have you, are not the stereotype you so casually label them with. Consider that these people simply want to live in a world not consumed by war, as the world has been for, oh, all of human history. Maybe they are tired of having their lives dictated by an unstoppable war machine operated by known tyrants, sociopaths, and the like.

Consider it. That's all.

Originally posted by billy565
reply to post by Nephalim

 

I cant keep you from landing on foresaken shores of godless # piles if you don't quit signing up for it.

You're ridiculous! Nobody is asking 4 your help retard. Is the op complaining about being deployed or completing his tour of duty?

No. He's complaining about idiot hippie tree hugging cowards like yourself who criticize his choice to serve. Did you read the opening post? Can you read?

People like you make me sick!

edit on 12-5-2013 by billy565 because: (no reason given)

Man you just took that and ran the complete opposite way didnt ya.

That's ok. Let me tell you a little more about myself. I'm from a military family with a record of service going back to ww2, and of course, most recently Iraq and I have no problems with veterans nor service to my country. I'm sorry you couldn't see the humor in my post, I guess it is a little warped. I have this issue where I forget and neglect to put little words like sarcasm and little smiley icons in my posts. Hell its the net, I don't worry about grammar much. Aside from that, I have a terrible memory. So no worries, I don't hold grudges. Might have been why I didn't mention "thank you for your service" to the veterans here in my reply.

Now I don't necessarily tree hug, and man do I avoid drugs like the plague, but I did take agriculture in college, among a few other things like behavioral science and brother, you have really serious anger issues if a post on the internet pisses you off that much. I'd avoid it entirely until you get that temper under control. More importantly, if you're a veteran? and you're acting like that with civilians? Not a good sign.

In me saying, Id wish you guys out of work? I really meant that. Unfortunately the world sees differently and our country winds up in wars more often than anyone would like. I really would prefer that no one had to visit one of those recruitment offices, but that's not the case.

I'll leave it at that and you can decide what to do with it.

Originally posted by TheBlackHat
reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli

 

Not to start any trouble haha...the analogy of the sheep and the sheep dog is being used here, to illustrate how the civilians are the sheep and the military are the sheep dog?

well if you follow through with that analogy, the sheep dog is only protecting the sheep from the wolf because the sheep belong to the Shepard and are the asset of the Shepard, who is inevitably only going to exploit and kill the sheep himself anyway...

Don't extend Grossman's metaphor beyond its original meaning. That way madness lies. You will get into nonsensical ideas like "Well the shepherd might want to kill me, or he might just cut off my wool to sell it to other people who have no sheep," or, "Can a sheep and a sheepdog have sex?"

reply to post by Nephalim


I apologize, I lost my temper. The name calling was ridiculous.

Everybody has a right to their opinion, please accept my apology.

reply to post by billy565


No problem Billy, the joke was off.
Have a good one.

Originally posted by StrangeOldBrew
So far in this thread I have seen supporters of military insult people who want to live in a peaceful world (peace activists), people who want to live in a clean, unpolluted environment (tree huggers), people who just want to live their lives and be left alone (hippies), people who support a more fair economic system (occupiers)

Everybody wants something they can't have, either because it doesn't exist or it isn't within their grasp. It's when they make spectacles of how much they want it, and start blaming blameless people for the fact that they do not have it, that they deserve ridicule.

The fact that 99% of the "peace activists" melted away after Obama was elected suggests that they didn't really want to "live in a peaceful world" anyway. They wanted to live in a world with a Democratic President. So let's call them what they are--Democratic Party activists.

you've referred to civilians as sheep to be herded, controlled, fleeced and slaughtered by the military and those who control it

Yet another person rewriting Grossman. If you're not going to read, understand, and accurately represent his ideas, do not bother referring back to them.

Also, consider that those you look down on as dirty hippies, or tree huggers (this one is particularly offensive to me, as I rather like trees, especially old ones), or lazy occupiers, or spineless cowards, or what have you, are not the stereotype you so casually label them with. Consider that these people simply want to live in a world not consumed by war, as the world has been for, oh, all of human history. Maybe they are tired of having their lives dictated by an unstoppable war machine operated by known tyrants, sociopaths, and the like.

No one in the US is dictated to by the "unstoppable war machine" unless they choose to be, so this is a non-issue.

Originally posted by watchitburn
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

I've been in the Marine Corps for about 12 years.

I have seen it too, but I don't really care.
I don't require anyone's support or approval. If someone wants to have an opinion based on ignorance, that's their problem.

I may not agree with why or what we have to do most of the time, but it's what I do. I fight battles. I'm not a hero, no one should look up to me, don't use me as a role model. I'm not special.

All I can do is try to do the right things for the right reasons when you're put in a bad situation.

With that being said, if I come across a post that is not correct or is based on misinformation I will try to correct it in a clear concise manner. But, I'm not going to let myself be baited into mudslinging. If they want to discuss it in a civilized way, fine. If not, oh well.

edit on 12-5-2013 by watchitburn because: (no reason given)

Very well said. I'm a 24 yr vet, i feel the same way and endeavor to correct any misinformation i come across.