Swarm of Lights Appear Over Argentina and Chile And Is Filmed From Six Cameras.

Originally posted by Bybyots
reply to post by abeverage

 

Bybyots any luck with finding the original of the last part of that video?

Here you are, Bubba...

I am by no means an expert but this video in particular stumps me. I keep seeing several that act as flashing lights I know that could be flare ups from friction and heat. But again I don't see a lot of streaking or fall off the lights appear to remain constant to each other where as with burning of debris they slow or drop off.

Logically I would say this is satellite de-orbiting just because of how slow it is moving. If I have time I might change the brightness and contrast and see if anything is made out but because of the quality I doubt it.

They are not aliens or UFO's or rocks flying through space but simply our relatives"
Who watch from a distance like what I call god that also created them we are a troubled race of mixed breeds and apartheid people that love making deadly weapons who aim to kill one another with them even at the simple drop of a hat, and it's not and wonder to me, that big brother watches, and now edges ever -closer, 'Because it's come to my everlasting conclusion that whatever happened in the past has all built up to this age of the empires that mankind will see the true unbridled power that make us look like the ants we really are!
Because we have not developed the great idea it's son, left for us, ( THE CHARD IN OUR HEARTS) That relic piece, that is missing,and these beings before us knew being apart of this huge power that time had to be extended because it took that long for us to finally see we could really all live together on earth and not ever have worry about over population, see because there is endless universes out there that make you those tinny little creatures that it some how made them too!
Just like it made Pluto, spin in a whirlwind it could have sent a moon size planet destroy us, but it didn't see we have them out there guarding us there just our brothers, that where made by the same unbelievable being i call father!

Here are some other large-satellite reentry fireball swarms, plus details of the sky trails of reentering space shuttles, to better characterize the range of apparitions that such activities can cause,

ESA Cargo Ship Reentry – some pieces flying in formation, others falling behind
www.youtube.com...

Mir reentry animation – formation flying at end
www.youtube.com...

Actual Mir fireball swarm observed – formation flying
www.youtube.com...

A wide collection of photographs of dynamic spacecraft events:
www.eclipsetours.com...


Visual Observations of Space Shuttle STS-72 Entry
www.jamesoberg.com...

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I did find something of consequence on the Heavens above Website.
....So now we have evidence of a Satellite, with an orbit that decayed two weeks before this sighting.

Good point, it is connected to the subsequent discussion on satobs about the identity of the 4 or 5 objects placed in orbit by the Antares launch. To summarize the conclusions, Molczan argued that the identities of some of the tracked objects were jumbled by NORAD, and that the one object that DID decay on May 10 over South America was not the trash-basket sized minisat, but the larger dummy Cygnus object.

reply to post by Komodo


Here is the link where I read this here on ATS


walmart size airship

He said they were training on "a triangle plane thing bigger than wal-mart" in his words lol. He was able to ask a few questions, but most of what he asked was shut down by the officer who led him out there with the words "need to know". This is what he was able to get out of him though, and what he saw. He asked how wide it was, and was told it's roughly 600 ft across. No wings since it was a delta shape. He said it was a matte black color, and about 2 stories tall sitting on the ground. He got to see it take off, and he said he was confused because it was so huge, but very quiet. No sign of engines, but it took off like a normal jet. He was told that we (the US) have 25 of them stationed in different parts of the world

And remember this post ATS,ers
Black Triangle Labeled As Space Junk

Nasa uars debris

The image above clearly shows a trail on the nasa uars sat entry, not to mention alot of others on the net.

The obvious. Airship international operates an airship service in Argentina, chili, europe,.china . Etc. Most likely there was a soccer game, and when the airship arrived people cheered. That might explain the cheers in the background.

This has been an energetic and candid discussion and ought to make all ATSers proud. It's offered the chance to see more clearly into each others' points of view and to identify items that are the sources of disagrement. And a lot of people have made very high quality space and astronomy contributions. Awesome. Backpats all around.

What is first clear is that many many people have fundamentally flawed images of what shallow-angle fireball swarms -- satellite reentries or grazer meteors -- really look like. This is probably due to lack of real observing experience and too much reliance on Hollywood SFX and space-themed video games. This can be remedied, to everyone's benefit, by first the recognition of the wrong impressions, and then their replacment.

The degree to which fireball fragments 'fly formation' is, exactly as a well-informed poster pointed out, highly dependent on the variety of drag characteristics of the objects. A normal object shedding small pieces would likely see these dots dropping back from the main body rather quickly.

In the most spectacular of the formation-holding swarms, however, one particular spacecraft feature seems to dominate: booster rockets, or multi-modular structures, or objects with weighty masses contained inside. In these cases, a lot of the pieces have very similar mass and area parameters and these types of decaying satellites seem to be the ones that most often -- dozens of cases on record -- create formation-holding swarms.

The enthusiasm with which some people observe a bright fireball swarm and SEE a LARGE structured object with mounted lights is utterly amazing, and is something that nobody could have believed before real world examples began accumulating. I confess I would never have believed it without piles of evidence, and while it makes sense in hindsight, I don't know anybody who predicted it.

This large-body misinterpreation is accentuated by the impression that the phantom body 'blocks stars out'. This could be an optical system feature as bright lights dominate and suppress dimmer lights as they pass. But it happens with such regularity that it cannot be doubted.

The visibility of trails is also a very time-dependent feature of fireballs like these. Trails are caused by two distinct phenomena -- plasma formation by molecular disruption, and ablation of material from the falling object. Both are self luminating, not needing sunlight, and are best seen at night when the large-spaceship illusion generally occurs. Initial glowing occurs above 100 km, with tails appearing at lower altitudes, but as the object slows, the tails diminish and vanish while a glow around each fragment continues until it, too, dies out and the now-dark fragment continues downrange for 100's of more kilometers. .

Satellites are entering the atmosphere at about 8 km/sec [8000 meters/sec].Aerodynamic braking can reach levels of 4-5 [high up] to 8 to 10 G's [lower] or more, depending on air thickness. One G is the accel of 9.8 meter/sec/sec, so a 5 G slow-down is losing about 50 meters/sec every second, or 3000 meters/sec in one minute [during which the object may have traveled 300-400 km]. It doesn't take long for orbital speed to bleed off, at that rate.

These satellite entries are so tightly correlated with fireball observations that there's no avoiding a causal relationship. The best the UFO diehards can do is postulate that the 'true UFOs' have some fascination with satellite reentries and fly up close to observe them. That's desperate and silly. Nobody has ever reported seeing both the entering satellite AND a UFO. It's either one or the other. Clark Kent and Superman are NEVER seen together, either, for the same reason.

What this new analysis offers is, for the first time in the history of ufology, the opportunity to assess eyewitness perception in a pseudo-controlled experiment, or mega-laboratory, setting. The full nature of the visual stimulus can be defined, and the range of eyewitness reports can be assessed. As the 1963 Kiev report showed, people watching bright shallow-angle fireball swarms [in that case, the Kosmos-30 booster reentry, although the report's authors never knew that] see either separate fireballs in formation, or a highly fanciful large [hand size at arm's length, or bigger] structure with lights ON it and jet streams trailing it. They also, for reasons not clear to me, sometimes see 'searchlights' projecting in front of the apparition.

The data is trying to teach us something we can all agree on. It won't solve the big problem, but it may show a course out of the bickering and squabbling over unverifiable assumptions that has been the norm for decades.

reply to post by JimOberg


So, what was the video of?

Originally posted by MongusePro
I'm going to say satellite debris...

In a low earth orbit say around 70,000 km. A dead satellite will only be doing around 1500m/s and if it approaches at just the right angle, at 1500m/s it's not going to suffer as much from aerodynamic heating as say a comet. Besides that a comet would be going 20-30km/s a 'slight' difference in speed.

If these conditions are met is likely the metallic coating on the debris designed to protect it from radiation would only suffer minor burns but instead cause the material to shatter. Once the material reaches 20kms its going to slow down significantly to around 250-400m/s. This viewed from the ground would look quite sluggish.

The flashes you see are likely the result of the aerodynamic heating prehand. Would be interesting to know how long the show lasted to determine the entry angle, and velocity.

Edit: I should mention for anyone interested.. The explosion on the material is caused by extreme heat differential between the inner and outer layers of the material... although the outer is being subjected to extremes of heat the inner is still heated very little from the 2.7kelvin of local space. This causes rapid expansion and, well, boom.

edit on 11-5-2013 by MongusePro because: (no reason given)

If it is debris, why does it not change brightness over time?

Originally posted by ecoparity
ATS is always good for a laugh when it comes to this subject.

It's pretty obvious that quite a few people can't even be bothered to watch the video (in full), take one very brief look at the still photo screen caps and spew forth whatever explanation comes to mind.

Any person blessed with eyesight who watches the videos can tell you that is NOT meteors or "space junk".

Granted, I can't tell you it's a bonafide ET craft, either but I can tell you what it isn't.

I never understood (and still don't) the logic that says any possible other explanation one can come up with, whether it fits or not = debunked. Really, the ATS community should do itself a favor and label every user who comes into this thread making those BS claims so we all know who's who in the future and what the agenda is....

The explanation is easy. The truth does not fit in their believe system and admitting the impossible means a total crash of their mind system.
As a matter of fact 95% of the population are gregarious animals - they don't have their own intention - they just repeat what majority is saying.

reply to post by Brucee

The explanation is easy.

Cool sounds like you've done some research on this and can tell us poor deluded people what it is we are seeing in the videos , maybe you could tell us what the videos show if its not the Cygnus mass simulator reentry .

The truth does not fit in their believe system and admitting the impossible means a total crash of their mind system.

Or are you just disagreeing with the prosaic(factual) explanation because it challenges your belief system ?

Originally posted by unknown known
reply to post by JimOberg

 

So, what was the video of?

I think that Ted Molczan, a respected Canadian amateur satellite tracker, has nailed the identity of the stimulus as the reentry of the Cygnus dummy spacecraft payload.

First, the timing and direction of the flight, known from official tracking reocrds, is spot on.

Second, the video and witness reports are consistent with previous evidence from previous reentries going back fifty years.

The arguments against the identification seem to consistent entirely of people who imagine they know what shallow-angle fireball swarms ought to look like, based on their imaginations, but no real knowledge or experience.

Originally posted by Brucee
If it is debris, why does it not change brightness over time?

Invalid question. It does change brightness over time. You are trying to force the observational data to fit your model -- 'no change in brightness'. You're fighting reality.

Originally posted by SJE98
And remember this post ATS,ers
Black Triangle Labeled As Space Junk

As I recall, that series of pictures were described as equipment packing materials tossed overboard during a spacewalk. That's what the astronauts doing the spacewalk and taking the pictures said. The junk items were not seen burning up in the atmosphere and their relevance to this event is unclear to me.

reply to post by JimOberg

What this new analysis offers is, for the first time in the history of ufology, the opportunity to assess eyewitness perception in a pseudo-controlled experiment, or mega-laboratory, setting.

The full nature of the visual stimulus can be defined, and the range of eyewitness reports can be assessed. As the 1963 Kiev report showed, people watching bright shallow-angle fireball swarms [in that case, the Kosmos-30 booster reentry, although the report's authors never knew that] see either separate fireballs in formation, or a highly fanciful large [hand size at arm's length, or bigger] structure with lights ON it and jet streams trailing it.

They also, for reasons not clear to me, sometimes see 'searchlights' projecting in front of the apparition. The data is trying to teach us something we can all agree on. It won't solve the big problem, but it may show a course out of the bickering and squabbling over unverifiable assumptions that has been the norm for decades.

I had a feeling that we were going somewhere new with this thread.

Thank you, Mr. Oberg, for putting that so well. If I'm not mistaken, this event is also noteworthy because it is the first mass UFO sighting related to commercial space debris.

Seems pretty Bladerunner/Cyberpunk to me, and I could not have imagined as a child, while looking forward to the 'future', that one feature of that future would be satellite debris going off over our heads intermittently like fireworks.

Any word from Orbital Sciences? I still plan on cold-calling them after lunch; we share the same time-zone.

Hey listen,

I realize that when one posts a thread in the Aliens and UFO forum, that chances are that one will get egg on one's face. Multiple eggs, usually.

So, I know that I am opening myself up to more face-egg but...

Shouldn't "Bad Astronomy" avoid bad astronomy by waiting to proclaim that it was the Cygnus MS after they are sure of it, and not guessing?

www.slate.com...

I just want to throw this out there: what is plan-B if this thing is not the CMS?

???

Originally posted by Bybyots
Hey listen,

I realize that when one posts a thread in the Aliens and UFO forum, that chances are that one will get egg on one's face. Multiple eggs, usually.

So, I know that I am opening myself up to more face-egg but...

Shouldn't "Bad Astronomy" avoid bad astronomy by waiting to proclaim that it was the Cygnus MS after they are sure of it, and not guessing?

www.slate.com...

I just want to throw this out there: what is plan-B if this thing is not the CMS?

???

Didn't they wait on Molczan's results, too?

Good idea to harrass the Cygnus offices.

Please report back.

Very interesting video. Not sure what stuff it is...

reply to post by JimOberg

Good idea to harrass the Cygnus offices.

Are you sure? I just went to do so and I drew up short; I am not sure how well the present social climate will support loons calling NASAs buddies to ask about satellite re-entries.

I found the guy whose email is offered in relation to the CMS; maybe email him instead?

Honestly Jim, quit pulling my leg; I just want to drive a stake in this things heart, same as everyone else.

I hope we are not dragging this out for the sake of Drama.

reply to post by JimOberg

Didn't they wait on Molczan's results, too?

Not as far as I can tell. Was that made clear someplace? If so please point it out.

It seems that everyone has grabbed on to the supposition and has run with it.

Again, not being stubborn, just looking to resolve this so I can go get my CHEM homework done.

P.S. Is it possible that there may be no press release concerning this? That would suck.

Originally posted by Bybyots

I just want to throw this out there: what is plan-B if this thing is not the CMS?

???

Plan B? I think it's go and be with your loved ones....

Really, this is a great opportunity to really further our knowledge about how people perceive. For me, I am usually on the other extreme where there is some complex mass hallucination thingy going on in order to explain how these things can get mistaken for Aliens. It would appear to be much simpler than that.

It is really interesting how the objects moved together at one speed. This really does give the impression of a solid mass with blinking lights. Illusory contours are quite a common and well known phenomenon.

www.google.com... bih=672