Texas House passes 12 firearms bills on 'gun day'

reply to post by jiggerj



While I won't argue that younger people are more prone to violent acts (damned hormones)....i would also point out that your average 45 year old just doesn't find the energy to go beat the hell out of someone. LOL. At least, I don't. Not that I haven't wanted to a few times.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Surely you aren't comparing predatory criminals with college and university students,

Not at all. I'm saying that, more so than any other age, I 'think' that college age young men are more likely to:
A. Commit a crime.
B. Commit a crime of passion (anger, jealousy, unreasonable drunken rage).
C. Do something stupid with a gun.
D. Misread a situation, such as seeing two college kids fighting and shooting one of them when neither would have been seriously hurt in the first place.
E. Use a weapon at close range so that a bullet would pass through one person and kill another.
F. Accidentally shoot someone.
G. Leave a weapon hanging around and it gets stolen, or it falls and goes off.
I. Pulls a gun on someone as a joke, whereby someone else thinks the joker is about to shoot someone, so that someone else shoots him.

From the New York Times: College Students Behaving Badly

Many people associate property crime and other delinquent behaviors with low social status and a lack of education. But new research has identified a surprising risk factor for bad behavior — college.

reply to post by Answer

If you had ever spent any time around gun owners, you would know just how ridiculous you sound. Any 21 year old adult who goes through the difficult process of obtaining a carry permit is not an irresponsible kid with no respect for firearms. I attended a college where I'd estimate that 70% of the students living off campus kept firearms in their home. There has never been a shooting at that university. Your statements are irrelevant because you speak from a position of total ignorance regarding gun ownership. The same "irresponsible kids" you refer to are who comprise the majority of our military. If I make statements about quantum physics, no one should take me seriously because I don't know what I'm talking about. Take the hint.

You may know gun owners, but why is it that you know NOTHING about people? What world do you live in where all college students are responsible young adults?

This from the FBI: Crimes in Schools and Colleges

Situations surrounding crime at school locations vary based on the offender’s motive and the intended victim. For example, incidents involving student offenders and student victims constitute the stereotypical definition of crime at schools, colleges, and universities where the offender and victim are present to participate in the activities occurring at the institution...

...over the 5-year study period, the use of knives/cutting instruments was over three times more prevalent than the use of a gun.

I promise you that this knife statistic will change with every student carrying a gun.

Now, here is an extensive list of colleges in Texas. In each school if just ONE student kills just ONE student per year, even if only by accident, this would totally blow away the number of people that have been killed by lone lunatic gunmen. Texas Colleges

I can't say it enough. This is a BAAAAAD idea.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by jiggerj

 

While I won't argue that younger people are more prone to violent acts (damned hormones)....i would also point out that your average 45 year old just doesn't find the energy to go beat the hell out of someone. LOL. At least, I don't. Not that I haven't wanted to a few times.

You just said in a few words what I've been trying to get across in multiple replies. Good job!

reply to post by Witness2008

Who say's that all college kids are irresponsible?

We're coming at this from opposite directions. If we can agree that not ALL college kids are responsible young adults, let me ask you this: What percentage of college kids are irresponsible, or merely have a moment of being irresponsible? Forty percent? Ten? One? What number would you be comfortable with when it comes to them carrying guns? For me, that number would be zero.

reply to post by jiggerj

Well, you are always good for well thought out posts and sometimes, logic I find hard to argue .... though I still manage, eh?

In this case, I have to agree with your points. You make solid ones and taken as an overall group for the age range? Well...Judgment isn't the trait that segment of the population is best known for being the poster example of.

At the same time, I note the important distinction and it's a very large one. The majority who reach 21 first (and no one even suggests a firearm be legal to carry by anyone under that age ...the min. for buying a pistol in the US) are not likely to pursue, let alone complete things like Military Enlistment, let alone the costly and troublesome process of getting a properly issues concealed carry permit. Some states make it near an Act of Congress by the time all the hoops are jumped through.

For those who do? Well, they're carrying their gun 100 yards off the property line of the Campus and, in off-campus housing, they're likely carrying there too. They don't change into Jekyll and Hyde by crossing a line on the pavement ..which is the heart of the matter here. It isn't "should we allow 21yr olds to carry a firearm under permit" (they already do) but should we allow those already permitted to carry it across the line of the sidewalk of a College Campus......or teachers/professors to carry the same way?

Your points are also why, frankly. I'm at odds with some 2nd amendment supporters on ATS but I am FIRMLY opposed to states with a no-permit required policy on CCW. I don't believe more than is currently required should be brought into the mix...except perhaps a bit more in classroom and range time? 2 days rather than 1 for a full day on EACH perhaps? Absolutely though, NOT LESS as some do say 'if you can buy it, you can carry it'. Oh, that attitude does scare me as a CCW holder and someone who regularly exercises that right. Common Sense and the Pursuit of Freedom part company right about there for me.

reply to post by jiggerj


allowing college students to
carry guns would drastically
reduce the rapes in and
around and on campus.


The college as a minature city is no different than comparing Washington D. C. with their "NO gun zone"
and a city that has liberal gun laws, say for instance, Craig Colorado/

The high crime rate on campus without firearms is akin to D. C.

Introduce guns on campus and it will be akin to the crime in Craig Colorado.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

In this case, I have to agree with your points. You make solid ones and taken as an overall group for the age range? Well...Judgment isn't the trait that segment of the population is best known for being the poster example of.

That's all I'm saying. Nothing to do about guns, but a lot about that age group.

Hell, I'm fifty-eight, and I swear there have been times when the two constantly barking collies across the street have woken me up in a rage. That rage is so sudden that if I had had a gun I would've shot them before I came to my senses. We just don't know what will send us over the brink and have us reaching for that gun. Unfortunately, I believe it is more prevalent for college age kids to reach that point.

Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by jiggerj

 

allowing college students to
carry guns would drastically
reduce the rapes in and
around and on campus.


The college as a minature city is no different than comparing Washington D. C. with their "NO gun zone"
and a city that has liberal gun laws, say for instance, Craig Colorado/

The high crime rate on campus without firearms is akin to D. C.

Introduce guns on campus and it will be akin to the crime in Craig Colorado.

I just don't know, Slugger. Wouldn't you think that a gun would empower rapists? No need to wrestle a woman to the ground. Just put a gun to her head.

I
just
don't
know.

I'm talking about a college campus full of irresponsible kids with no respect for firearms. I fully support the second amendment, but that comes with the understanding that firearms should be kept locked up and given the rightful respect as a deadly weapon.

You need to go to a graduation some day at a college or university.
There are 100's of irresponsible kids who just completed four years
of studying, going to class, reading and writing papers, paying for tuition
and books.

malarkey, plumb overflowing full of it.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by jiggerj

 

NOT LESS as some do say 'if you can buy it, you can carry it'. Oh, that attitude does scare me as a CCW holder and someone who regularly exercises that right.

In a bar on Saturday night,
I bet between 15-35% of the
patrons have a gun on themselves.


If you can buy it, you can carry it.
That is a reflection of that mentality.
Why not extend that same to law abiding people?

reply to post by jiggerj


look up the rape stats in two Florida counties in the 1980's.
Dade and Broward. These two counties had rape rates over 450% of the national average.

Law enforcement could not stop it.
Law enforcement instead, appealed to the target population of women,
ages 16-55 years old to attend classes to learn how to shoot a handgun.
Law enforcement then helped these women purchase and then carry
these handguns.

Guess what happened to the rape rate?
You cannot argue with reality for very long or very successfully.

reply to post by slugger9787

In a bar on Saturday night,
I bet between 15-35% of the
patrons have a gun on themselves.


If you can buy it, you can carry it.
That is a reflection of that mentality.
Why not extend that same to law abiding people?

...and if one of those people carrying a gun in a bar is found that way in most states ..or found to have touched alcohol in ALL states..they'll never legally own a gun again, in all likliehood. As it should be.

Why shouldn't it be 'If you can buy it, you can carry it'?? Two reasons.

First... One of the people in my CCW class was qualifying with a .22 mosquito, which is a BIG frame for a tiny bullet. You should be able to punch tacks with that gun at the 7yrd qualifying distance. Her target looked like she fired a shotgun at it from 25 yards. There are people who don't have the skill to even THINK about shooting on a range...let alone having a gun in public to possibly use in a crisis. The bad buy is likely to be the only SAFE one for those people.

Second... The majority if a CCW class isn't when to shoot and how to kill. It's when NOT to shoot and how to accept the fact you ARE going to jail the moment you do. Justified or Not, you ARE going to jail. Period. Acceptance of that fact is a great deterrence and trained point for a moment of pause to avoid the situations entirely. It's effective, IMO, too. That training is invaluable and necessary.

* going to jail doesn't mean you'll stay there and justified shoots ought to be cleared up quickly enough. However, learning how fine the line can be and just how many ways it can be criminal instead of justified probably keeps more people from being stupid with their weapons than anything else. Lacking that training? Oh...I don't want someone anywhere near me in public with a gun. Ever.

reply to post by jiggerj


How does a group of college kids pulling a prank make them irresponsible?
Also.. is that even in the USA?

reply to post by jiggerj


Jiggerj, if you wake up in that type of rage then perhaps you need anger management therapy.

I joined the military a little later than most, I was 25 and almost every one in my basic training unit and almost everyone below the rank of E-5 in my permenant party station was 18-22. Judging from your comments I would trust them with an automatic weapon before I would trust you with a .22. If I followed the same thought process as you I wouldn't trust anyone your age because obviously they can not control their anger. (See how that works?) I'm not attacking you personally, just proving how narrow minded that type of thinking is.

Back on topic:

Here is just one case and these two weren't ccw carriers. Then there was the Clackamas mall shooting that was stopped by an individual with their ccw permit. Seriously, just because some idiots can't control their behavior doesn't mean in any way that the people who go thru the training and get their ccw permits are of the same mentality. I believe wrabbit said it best when he said people like that are most likely not going to go thru the steps to get their ccw permit. Stop painting all people in a certain age group with a broad brush, its unbecoming of a serious thinker not to mention a total fallacy. That's like saying all people of a certain color are the same because of the actions of some in the urban jungle.

Oh and the link.

www.calccw.com...

peace

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
reply to post by jiggerj

 

jigger,

Funny picture....hysterical actually. But what makes you think that most college students can't differentiate between a harmless prank and deadly force?

*Note - I say "most" because you can't unilaterally say that everyone is on the same psychological level in understanding or balance, but that's EXACTLY why they passed this law. If I am an unbalanced college kid who comes unhinged and goes on a shooting spree, how far am I going to get with dozens of other ARMED college kids shooting back at me?


ETA - in regards to my first question...I am waiting on the responses that include examples of hazing deaths in colleges. yes, I have a response to that, but I will give you the benefit of bringing it up first.

edit on 5-5-2013 by CIAGypsy because: (no reason given)

No need to delve into the ridiculous activities of college kids. The angle you're coming at this gun thing is that it will end mass shootings. Okay, that's a good thing. But, how many immature students get jealous over a girlfriend lost to another student? How many college kids get into fights? How many college kids get drunk beyond reason and are stupid enough to go waving their guns around? How many college kids get suicidal, but survive because there's no way to off themselves quickly? How many college kids get real angry with their teachers?

Hey, you have NO idea how wrong I want to be! But, I guess time will tell, eh?

So what does all that ridiculousness differ from people in communities outside of college?

reply to post by jimmyx


giving up your right to self defense doesnt mean whoever wants to hurt you will too.

Duck and cover... Back in the late fifties and early sixties we had drills in our classrooms in preparation for nuclear war. Atomic bomb attacks during the 'Cold War'. After the Kennedy assassination time frame, it became less and less practiced.
What will we do now? Have 'shooter avoidance' drills? If we are going to defend our schools, we are going to need a plan on what students should do. Duck and cover....? flee....? just what? Remember a few years back where the Russian school was commandeered and many many of the children and adults were killed, I think it was, in the gymnasium. Few escaped. Girls are being targeted in Islamic countries for simply getting an education, often times massacred. It's not just a homegrown phenomenon.

Originally posted by oniraug
reply to post by jimmyx

 

giving up your right to self defense doesnt mean whoever wants to hurt you will too.

It may sway their decision though. If the possibility of retaliation is present, it's a pretty good chance the perp will consider the ramifications of their intentions.

too bad they didn't pass a bill regulating fertilizer storage, and life in prison for owners when their negligence results in death, but, that's business.