17 of 20 Terror plots against US were False flags, created by FBI itself

fake/staged/hoaxed events are so predominant now that it is indeed
a rarity to have an event occur just as the conspiracy community reports
(and is led to believe).

please everyone bear this in mind and satisfy yourselves as to the veracity
of this statement. it really makes all the difference in worldview. it will take more than
a few days reading.

www.cluesforum.info

i can say no more except that these 'people' may not be as 'evil' as you
are led to believe. (at least not in terms of these issues at hand).

WOW. This should be a slap in the face to all those people who do not accept the idea of false flags, despite the abundant evidence that they have taken place in the past. This is just shocking to me because of where the information is coming from. Why was this shown on the MSM? What more proof do people need that the government itself is against us, or at the very least does not give a crap about anyone or their personal rights? Maybe now some will start to see the possibility that other events were false flags, such as 9/11. Think of how far the administration's agenda was furthered by 9/11. Just coincidence?

Originally posted by andy1972
Vietnam was a war meant to be sustained....never won.

This is true about ALL wars.

People have absolutely no idea what really causes wars because history is a lie.

"All war is based on deception." ~ Sun Tzu, The Art of War

“Most wars are engineered by the Illuminati to weaken civilization and create a global police state" The Illuminati want to own and control everyone. They want to be God. They contrived all the revolutions, the world wars, the Cold War, Korea, Vietnam, the JFK assassination, 9-11, Iraq and Afghanistan and the "war on terror."

Does A Satanic Cult Rule The World?

One group and one group alone is responsible for virtually all wars and bloodshed on the face of this planet. The Synagogue of Satan

If you control the game, you can guarantee the win.

The people to attain high office, don't get their by chance.

They guarantee their success, by creating the situations that make them look like stars.

So, the FBI creates games, call them undercover operations, control the outcomes, arrest and prosecute their victims, and rise in rank, as a result of their successes.

The police do the same thing, on a smaller scale.It's very hard to find a real criminal, someone to arrest, to get that promotion and higher badge. So, why not create the criminal, arrest and prosecute the unsuspecting, and guarantee your promotion that way? Why wait around a lifetime for the chance to solve crimes that may never come your way? This is the difficulty that minority groups have with police. It's not that the police are racist, they just need arrests to look good to their department. Who are they going to arrest? The easy targets are the weak, the disadvantaged, the poor, the uneducated, it's like a gold mine out there of opportunity to advance oneself. It only takes a little creativity, and boldness, and when dealing with the poor, there's very little real risk. So, the people who feel the effects of these "games of promotion" are usually those without the resources to mount a defense.

The structure of society is such, that in almost every sphere of activity, a little cheating goes a long way to engineering one's advancement in the chosen career.

To take the "chance" out of the game of life.

To make it to the top, in this life, before retirement.

You need an edge.

You need to "control" the chance.

reply to post by SQUEALER


If you ask me, the FBI is playing a very dangerous game and where people may really get hurt. This is not entrapment which is sleeked enough, but the role playing is in fact so characteristic of what the two brothers did, or are alleged to, (and were able to carry it out) have done in Boston, and especially that they or at least one were known to the FBI.
There is also the other aspect of the actual harmful incidents that did take place, and having the correspondent drills reportedly taking place at the same time, as in 9/11 at least. What is the psychology in all this? is it all meant to confuse people to the point that the mind just becomes numb when nothing makes much sense, and there is not much left but to say Feck it, I have no time for this, as Squirrel pointed out?
Then there is the military style takeover in a Boston suburb, where did that idea come from? where's the fecking war?

If people were to take off the patriot goggles they would see that maybe a financier of the feebies paid both sides with intent to benefit from the chase. There are leaky and crooked agents who folow the executive privilege bias lines. It is a production that costs millions to make complete with staged houses, cars, and costumes. The running product is employment for the infragard crowd and the final product is a pile of media that conpiracy theorists pick at like maggots on a corpse.

At the end of the day asking your government to get the work done will only cause them to go to their wanted people and foreigners and bicker about the costs, if it is cheaper to cover it up or to catch it.

These plots were when it was cheaper to let the disaster to happen than to prevent it. It all comes back to a person who estimated it was not worth it to stop the event.

The sickest thing is that the National Security production group is building a bigger surveillance studio to deceive more innocent people that their country is doing a good job. FBI productions vs the terrorists is a safety scam these days when the disasters happen. I wish I could wear the patriot goggles but they just block out the truth.

Originally posted by smurfy
reply to post by SQUEALER

 

If you ask me, the FBI is playing a very dangerous game and where people may really get hurt.

People might get hurt. That's just collateral damage. At a sufficiently low level, this thing called collateral damage is accepted in most spheres of human activity. Man attempting to go into space, space shuttle disaster. US drones dropping bombs on terrorists, children getting hit instead. New vaccinations being tried, people suffering complications. Aspirin kills 3,000 people every year, yet doctors still prescribe it, because the benefits outweigh the risks. All collateral. Someone makes a calculation, and comes to the conclusion that the benefits outweigh the costs. We don't know exactly what their thinking process is, or how they determine what is beneficial. It might just be someone's delusion about National Security. Someone imagines a threat, and devises a solution to that threat. The solution requires them to invent schemes to probe the threat and response levels, to have drills, to actually enact events, so that like laboratory scientists, they are at some point dealing with actual phenomena, and not just theoretical Hypothecation all the time. At some point, the intelligence analyst has to test his ideas out in the field. Nobody is going to pay him, to sit behind a desk, and think up events that never occur. He has to be able to say, "see, I told you so", and sufficiently often, to continue to get paid, to continue to be considered a valuable asset to the agency.

Self-preservation demands action.

The only dangerous people are the FBI. They have the training, they have the communication channels. They have the computer databases of information. And the most important thing, they make the arrests.

The average wannabe crook, doesn't have anywhere near a fraction of the resources at his disposal, as the average FBI agent. So, yeah, they play a dangerous game. But, it's their game. They are the masters of that game. The people are not organized, and will never be. The FBI is organized, and motivated. They need to keep their jobs. Many like their game. They like being FBI, and want to keep it that way. So, they need to do things to protect their jobs, enhance their positions, further their career, get that promotion. They don't answer to any higher power. They are the higher power. When a police is found to be corrupt, call in the FBI. Who do you call if the FBI is corrupt? There is nobody to call. The FBI cannot be corrupt, because they define what corrupt is. Whatever they do, is part of an undercover operation, and hence secret, and not subject to questioning.

That's the kind of power everybody wants. But, only a few lucky crafty individuals have been able to wrangle their way into those special organizations that enable this power. Who would give that power up? When have you ever heard the chief of one of these organizations like the FBI say "I quit", "I had enough". Doesn't happen. Underlings might quit, because they recognize they don't have the craftiness to stay the course.

So, all the games are necessary for people to keep their jobs.

Society of the future may change all this. With information exchange, people tweeting each other, leaks coming out all the time, it's getting alot harder to play these games, and not have people know about it. We all see the military guys walking about at the Boston event, we see their photos, their stuffed backpacks. But, we don't know their identities yet. But the time will come when everyone's identity is instantly revealed from photo recognition. .So, a soon as you tweet a photo, someone will tweet back that person's name, address, and phone number, where he went to school, which country he is a citizen of, etc..The intelligence services already have this kind of capability, but the public will get it too.No one will be able to hide. People will police themselves, and the careers that create the games to sustain those careers will all vanish, along with the games.And we will have no bombings, since there will be no one "to profit" from such a ridiculous event.

Originally posted by PointDume

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by below

 

OP, apparently you don't know what the term "false flag operation" means.

I agree the OP exagerrates the claim when using the phrase "carried out."

However...

The FBI radicalized individuals and concocted elaborate phony plots for these individuals to carry out. Then the FBI announced their success at preventing the plots.

This pattern of behavior fits the definition of a false flag because the government touted its ability to prevent the attack without disclosing its involvement in generating the attack.

The efficacy of the attack does not make the situation not a false flag, it only reduces the severity of the situation.

I do think its fair to say that these incidents are the bare minimum false flag. In other words, if you removed a single element, the definition would no longer apply

WRONG. These weren't false flag attacks or plots. The fact that the FBI has been involved in setting the suspects up in these cases has been known in each one as far as I know, because I have heard criticism of such cases since they started being announced.

Again, get your terminology correct. False flag operations are attacks by one organization/government to make some other group appear responsible. These were entrapment cases using agent provocateurs, who were either undercover FBI agents or snitches. There is a big difference between the two types of operations.

Now do these agent provocateur operations radicalize suspects? Probably. However, this is very similar to some undercover police operations to bust drug dealers. Are those also wrong? Possibly.

Like I said, I don't necessarily condone such operations, but to call them false flag operations AND to claim they were carried out is patently false. By all means, let's have a discussion about such terrorist entrapment operations, i.e. do they create would-be terrorists who haven't the gumption to plan such operations on their own, but let's use the correct terminology and not mislead with false rhetoric.

And frankly I am just tired of ignorant people using the term "false flag" without knowing what it means, just because it is the buzz-word phrase du jeur for conspiracy buffs.

Yes, a lot of us know this. There are many resources to find this information. I so much want to share this on my facebook but I just can't recommend a Faux News Souse. It just goes against every grain of my being.

So now they want to cough up something significant. LOL It must be because it is a democratic administration. Where were those bastages before the war in Iraq. Oh yeah, I remember, they had a whole drum set. Along with all the other mainstream media. Puke!!!

We don't need those pricks to tell us the truth. We have been finding it out in spite of them for over 12 years.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by MrInquisitive

 

These were plots that the FBI encourage likely would-be terrorists into planning a terrorist attack

I'm not disputing that there are would-be terrorists out there...but, give them a few months, with a giant state apparatus at their disposal...they can make a terrorist out of you if they want to. You don't even have to be a would-be...but they choose mid eastern types because it sells easier.

If they encouraged, provided funds, and made deals...that is almost as same as "carried out". Sure they give them bombs...remember the 93 WTC bombing...

It is a simple game of marketing their own necessity of existence. Plus...you get more funding I presume, if you foil a plot or two...

HELLO! Did I defend such entrapment/agent provocateur operations by the FBI??? NO! All I did was describe what these operations are and how the FBI characterizes them. I said let's have a conversation about that, but let's stop having false claims about these being false flag operations that were carried out, as the OP falsely claims.

Personally, I think such operations tend to draw in schmucks that wouldn't otherwise have the wherewithal to plan and carry out such terrorist attacks, and -- as I said in my original post -- I suspect such entrapment operations are meant to make the FBI look good, to gin up the terrorist threat, and to justify continued spending of money on anti-terrorist law-enforcement and infringement of civil liberties.

But to claim that these are false flag operations totally misses the point, is misleading, and undermines any intelligent discussion of the issue of terrorist-entrapment operations.

reply to post by GrantedBail


You don't have to go with fox if this will do.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

It is a simple game of marketing their own necessity of existence. Plus...you get more funding I presume, if you foil a plot or two...

lol
good point
the Canadian guv just busted some lamers re the VIA rail plot
then the news comes out there is 3.1 BILLION dollars if antiterrorist money just Missing
heil harper!

ps
3.1 illion can derail alot of threads

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
WRONG. These weren't false flag attacks or plots. The fact that the FBI has been involved in setting the suspects up in these cases has been known in each one as far as I know, because I have heard criticism of such cases since they started being announced.

The "fact that the FBI has been involved in setting the suspects up in these cases" has not been known since such cases were announced.

Below is the original Newburgh Four Press Release, which strongly suggests that the defendants were the initiators of communication with the paid FBI informant.

FBI - Original Newburgh Four Press Release:

As alleged in the Complaint, the defendants wanted to engage in terrorist attacks. They selected targets and sought the weapons necessary to carry out their plans. Fortunately, the defendants sought the assistance of a witness cooperating with the Government.

But compare this press release with the reality, discovered years later through a wide variety of investigative efforts by public interest groups and journalists...

Guardian - Fake terror plots, paid informants: the tactics of FBI 'entrapment' questioned:

Even more shocking was that the organisation, money, weapons and motivation for this plot did not come from real Islamic terrorists. It came from the FBI, and an informant paid to pose as a terrorist mastermind paying big bucks for help in carrying out an attack.

The FBI essentially created a new terror cell by recruiting these four dupes. Obviously, this doesn't excuse the actions of the Newburgh Four. Their intentions and behavior is reprehensible.

But... as a group, these individuals were a creation of the Federal government.

From the Wikipedia Definition of False Flag:

Operations carried during peace-time by civilian organisations, as well as covert government agencies, may by extension be called false flag operations if they seek to hide the real organisation behind an operation.

Clearly, just from the plain language of the FBI press release, the authorities are attempting to "hide the real organization behind [the] operation. The FBI is the organization behind the operation. That the operation was never intended to come to fruition is not relevant.

From Urban Dictionary definition of False Flag:

Something disguised to seem affiliated with a group OTHER THAN the one it really is affiliated with. For example, a "false flag operation" is a terrorist act committed by one group for the express purpose of discrediting another group, which is framed for it.

The Federal government sought to "disguise" a wholly-FBI-concocted terror cell "to seem affiliated with" international terrorist organizations and associated organizations, in order to gain political and legal advantage and/or achievement and to further justify actions in the generalized arena of the War on Terror.

Applying strict logic and grammar, these actions are, on their face, a false flag. A de minimus false flag, sure.

Originally posted by MrInquisitiveAnd frankly I am just tired of ignorant people using the term "false flag" without knowing what it means, just because it is the buzz-word phrase du jeur for conspiracy buffs.

Overuse and misuse of any specific term is frustrating. I am also annoyed by the plastering of the phrase "false flag" onto anything and everything. In my relatively brief time here, I've seen it thrown around hundreds of times in completely inappropriate circumstances.

The story in the OP is not an inappropriate circumstance. I did qualify my opinion insofar as the situations described in the OP are the bare minimum kind of conduct that I think qualifies as a false flag.

Underline emphasis added

reply to post by PointDume


@PointDume,

I have known that these would-be terrorists have been at least partly lead into these plots since the first such ring was busted. There have been so many, that I can't keep track of them, so I can't provide any details. There was one such "terrorist cell" busted in Michigan, and another in Florida or Georgia; and at the time there were independent news reporters who emphasized the fact that these folks were set up, and were really just gangs that couldn't shoot straight. There was a recent one, however, in Portland Oregon, which involved just one "terrorist" and the day he was busted and they made a big media sensation about it, the FBI also provided the fact that this was another "terrorist sting operation" (my terminology for it). So claiming cases such as these are false flag operations is just plain false.

I won't deny that the MSM and Fox tend to downplay the entrapment aspects of such cases, but that is the corporate news media's fault. The information is out there and noted by indy news sources, so it is not as if the FBI is hiding it. And in the criminal complaints, the details of the set-up would-be terrorists are documented. So nothing is being kept secret. IF the FBI was setting people up, but then keeping its entrapment of them hush-hush, then I could by the claim of these being quasi-false-flag operations, but that is not what is going on.

As the FBI is acknowledging that they are involved in setting these guys up, and no such operation is allowed to come to fruition, they are in NO WAY false flag operations, your claims notwithstanding. They are entrapment stings, using agent provocateurs -- either paid informants or undercover LEO's. To say they are false flag operations is stretching the meaning to ridiculous lengths.

Your citing of the Urban Slang Dictionary definition for a false flag operation is but a paraphrasing of how I defined it, so I don't know what your point was.

Law-enforcement agencies do all sorts of entrapment sting operations, including drug busts, vice and larceny. I'm not in favor of them and they can sometimes even involve busting innocent people trying to be good citizens investigating a car with a door open and a key in the ignition. I think tempting people into committing crimes and then busting them is immoral.

I feel the same way about doing the same thing with possible would-be terrorists; however, a case can be made that there is a need to do this because if such persons sooner or later get the wherewithal and motivation to carry out such an operation on their own, lives will be lost -- such as just happened in the Boston Marathon bombing. No doubt, in hindsight, some people will say that it would have been a good idea for the FBI to do an entrapment operation against this pair of brothers in order to put them behind bars before they could do any harm. However, the argument can also be made that such operations will push otherwise reluctant, low-likelyhood, would-be terrorists into going forward with an agent provocateur-inspired plan.

But these are still not false flag operations. The FBI, when it makes its criminal case, details whatever entrapment it did as part of the evidence against the suspects, so it comes clean with what actually occurred; hence there is nothing false flag about it. Period.

False flag attacks are lies and total rubbish started by bored ats members who still are waiting for a real ufo to turn up or a real alien

reply to post by below


Clearly something's wrong here.
FOX NEWS say that the FBI created 17 false flags. FOX NEWS! One of the members of CFR, the group that has Bush and Rockefeller members. Come on, something's wrong here.

Originally posted by abbey7777
False flag attacks are lies and total rubbish started by bored ats members who still are waiting for a real ufo to turn up or a real alien

Hi abbey,

I thought I'd hear you out on your post a little more in detail. Are you saying you don't believe
false flags even happen ? And that everything is just the way you believe it to be ? Who
ever uses the term false flag is lying ?

Trying to discuss any historical event with some of you is useless since you just don't understand that utube videos are not a replacement for real research. Just because Oliver Stone put something in a movie and uses a talented veteran actor to deliver a convincing spin doesn't make it true.

Jack Kennedy's '1,000' troops home for Christmas was all on paper-nothing was going to change at all. His main focus was getting reelected with what ever smoke and mirrors that required.

As far as what JFK had in mind for Vietnam-when and if he was reelected-is anybody's guess because the only person he ever confided in was his brother Bobby.

To say LBJ wanted a 'false flag' so he could escalate the war is simply ignorance. He spent 6 chapters in his book trying to explain the confusion and none of you would know that because reading his book would require effort and would not result in a video you could post to satisfy your histrionic need for attention.

Originally posted by SQUEALER
If you control the game, you can guarantee the win.

The people to attain high office, don't get their by chance.

They guarantee their success, by creating the situations that make them look like stars.

So, the FBI creates games, call them undercover operations, control the outcomes, arrest and prosecute their victims, and rise in rank, as a result of their successes.

The police do the same thing, on a smaller scale.It's very hard to find a real criminal, someone to arrest, to get that promotion and higher badge. So, why not create the criminal, arrest and prosecute the unsuspecting, and guarantee your promotion that way? Why wait around a lifetime for the chance to solve crimes that may never come your way? This is the difficulty that minority groups have with police. It's not that the police are racist, they just need arrests to look good to their department. Who are they going to arrest? The easy targets are the weak, the disadvantaged, the poor, the uneducated, it's like a gold mine out there of opportunity to advance oneself. It only takes a little creativity, and boldness, and when dealing with the poor, there's very little real risk. So, the people who feel the effects of these "games of promotion" are usually those without the resources to mount a defense.

The structure of society is such, that in almost every sphere of activity, a little cheating goes a long way to engineering one's advancement in the chosen career.

To take the "chance" out of the game of life.

To make it to the top, in this life, before retirement.

You need an edge.

You need to "control" the chance.

great post, and this is exactly why fakery is so predominant. no one is killed
and all looking to benefit, benefit.
how infinitely easier it is to recruit people for a mass-hoax over a mass-murder.

once people realise that sandy hook and boston were fakery extravaganzas (i
cannot over-stress the importance of computer generated fakery technology to their arsenal),
then they might be ready to see 9/11 for what it really was - another fakery extravaganza
with faked plane crashes, faked video, fake witnesses and most importantly of all, almost
3000 fake victims.
only when people wake up to this 'reality' can the whole apple-cart be overturned and all the
rotten apples seperated from the good.

www.cluesforum.info for those who want proof of the extents of 9/11 (and many other)
fakery.

fakery fakery everywhere
and we lap it up.

Originally posted by SQUEALER

Originally posted by smurfy
reply to post by SQUEALER

 

If you ask me, the FBI is playing a very dangerous game and where people may really get hurt.

People might get hurt. That's just collateral damage. At a sufficiently low level, this thing called collateral damage is accepted in most spheres of human activity. Man attempting to go into space, space shuttle disaster. US drones dropping bombs on terrorists, children getting hit instead. New vaccinations being tried, people suffering complications. Aspirin kills 3,000 people every year, yet doctors still prescribe it, because the benefits outweigh the risks. All collateral. Someone makes a calculation, and comes to the conclusion that the benefits outweigh the costs. We don't know exactly what their thinking process is, or how they determine what is beneficial. It might just be someone's delusion about National Security. Someone imagines a threat, and devises a solution to that threat. The solution requires them to invent schemes to probe the threat and response levels, to have drills, to actually enact events, so that like laboratory scientists, they are at some point dealing with actual phenomena, and not just theoretical Hypothecation all the time. At some point, the intelligence analyst has to test his ideas out in the field. Nobody is going to pay him, to sit behind a desk, and think up events that never occur. He has to be able to say, "see, I told you so", and sufficiently often, to continue to get paid, to continue to be considered a valuable asset to the agency.

Self-preservation demands action.

The only dangerous people are the FBI. They have the training, they have the communication channels. They have the computer databases of information. And the most important thing, they make the arrests.

The average wannabe crook, doesn't have anywhere near a fraction of the resources at his disposal, as the average FBI agent. So, yeah, they play a dangerous game. But, it's their game. They are the masters of that game. The people are not organized, and will never be. The FBI is organized, and motivated. They need to keep their jobs. Many like their game. They like being FBI, and want to keep it that way. So, they need to do things to protect their jobs, enhance their positions, further their career, get that promotion. They don't answer to any higher power. They are the higher power. When a police is found to be corrupt, call in the FBI. Who do you call if the FBI is corrupt? There is nobody to call. The FBI cannot be corrupt, because they define what corrupt is. Whatever they do, is part of an undercover operation, and hence secret, and not subject to questioning.

That's the kind of power everybody wants. But, only a few lucky crafty individuals have been able to wrangle their way into those special organizations that enable this power. Who would give that power up? When have you ever heard the chief of one of these organizations like the FBI say "I quit", "I had enough". Doesn't happen. Underlings might quit, because they recognize they don't have the craftiness to stay the course.

So, all the games are necessary for people to keep their jobs.

Society of the future may change all this. With information exchange, people tweeting each other, leaks coming out all the time, it's getting alot harder to play these games, and not have people know about it. We all see the military guys walking about at the Boston event, we see their photos, their stuffed backpacks. But, we don't know their identities yet. But the time will come when everyone's identity is instantly revealed from photo recognition. .So, a soon as you tweet a photo, someone will tweet back that person's name, address, and phone number, where he went to school, which country he is a citizen of, etc..The intelligence services already have this kind of capability, but the public will get it too.No one will be able to hide. People will police themselves, and the careers that create the games to sustain those careers will all vanish, along with the games.And we will have no bombings, since there will be no one "to profit" from such a ridiculous event.

another brilliant post SQUELLER but i believe that in all these contrived/faked/staged/
hoaxed events, it becomes imperative that no-one is killed or injured and large amounts
of time are invested by these agencies in ensuring just that.

with the deliberate sloppiness of recent 'events' and reporting from boston and sandy hook,
i believe that the day you talk about at the end of your post may not too far off.