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reply to post by BlueMule


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't think you even know why it annoys you that I say religion is an invention. If you had an answer, I'm quite sure I would have heard it by now, but posting esoteric videos and philosophical word games is getting nowhere.

Thanks, but no thanks.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


It's not videos and philosophy that gets us nowhere. It's your impatience.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Like I said if you want to go tit for tat I can show you more non Christians’ who have killed, maimed and aborted their children. You posted one extreme church. Are all churches like the one in KC that picket funeral? NO. You can and will find extremes in all people groups. You undoubtable have had a bad experience at the hands of so called Christians so you lump all Christians into that one group. Do you lump all Moslems into one group because some have strapped bombs on themselves or have done honor killing? If you have then I do not know what to say.

reply to post by guitarplayer

You posted one extreme church. Are all churches like the one in KC that picket funeral? NO. You can and will find extremes in all people groups. You undoubtable have had a bad experience at the hands of so called Christians so you lump all Christians into that one group. Do you lump all Moslems into one group because some have strapped bombs on themselves or have done honor killing? If you have then I do not know what to say.

FIRST of all, that "one in KC" is in TOPEKA. Entirely different city.

And I do NOT think anyone in this thread has been "lump[ing] all Christians into that one group".

And just in case you're interested, I am currently exchanging dialogue (and have been, right here on ATS for some time now!) with a Muslim who is from India. We are working pretty hard to understand each other, and we are making great progress.

Why do you assume that ALL people who disagree with you do it ONLY BECAUSE they "have had a bad experience at the hands of so called Christians"??!! Do you not CARE that those 'so called Christians' are harming their kids?

Or are you more interested in separating yourself from them. "us" real Christians vs "them" the so-called Christians.
Are you more intent on:
pointing out your differences? Yeah, we get it. Not all Christians are like that.

OR on doing something about them masquerading as Christians so as to make some changes?

You all spend a lot of energy 'differentiating' yourselves from those loud, obnoxious Bible-thumpers who are trying to take over America - but what are you doing to 'correct' that kind of behavior? Really. How are you combating that 'group' with whom you disagree? What's the real use of pointing a finger at who you accuse for 'lumping together' with you and the "real Christians"?

The 'real, genuine Christ-followers' have an obligation, in my opinion, to denounce and expose the "so-called Christians" for what they are. If they do not represent you, why do you allow them to have television shows, Bibleman, radio shows, and other hateful things - including bringing on 'Armageddon' and stuff that men like Pat Robertson and John Hagee say under the umbrella of "Christianity"?

Are you doing anything about that? Except 'separate' yourselves?

reply to post by BlueMule

It's not videos and philosophy that gets us nowhere. It's your impatience.

Ahhhwwwoohhhhh!
What? That's not fair. BH has asked you (and so have I and others) to expound upon your view, and often you offer only '/shrug' and some philosophic c/p and a music video. I've told you this before, BlueMule.

People are trying to comprehend what you're saying - but as soon as someone 'draws you out' enough to ask the pertinent questions or challenge your opinion, you 'shut down.'

I just wonder if you realize how that appears to others. It seems (to me) that you are just trying to drag out the discussion while you take your time not explaining yourself and simultaneously try to imply that everyone else here is incompetent. If you have a point to make, make it clearly!

Why should we all have to wait on you to decide to be less vague? Can you really not just be direct, and still get your point across?

reply to post by guitarplayer

Originally posted by guitarplayer
so you lump all Christians into that one group.

No, I don't. Once again, your original comment (please read carefully):

Originally posted by guitarplayer
I do not know any Christian parent that has beat their child and forced them into Chrstianity.

I simply showed you that there are Christian parents (not all, of course) who beat their children. And it's not just one church. My own father did it. It's not as common these days, because of laws against it, but it still happens and they use the bible to justify it, just like my father did. It's violence.

Why do So Many Christians Abuse their Children?

The Bible says:

A baby is born speaking lies The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. Psalm 58:3
A baby is conceived in iniquity and sin Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Psalm 51:5
A baby is the enemy of God Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4
A baby is alienated from God The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. Psalm 58:3
A baby is born into the world under the wrath of God For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Romans 1:18
A baby is headed for hell the moment it draws its first breath

Parents Biblically Beat Child to Death

Christian Child Abuse

Not all child abusers are Christians, and not all Christians are child abusers. But a surprisingly high number of reported child abuse cases occur in Christian families. Moreover, the abuser often bases the justification for their behavior on Christianity. A father, when confronted by state child abuse prevention workers, resisted their assistance and said: "What do you mean I can't beat my child? I'm a Christian." This Christian father who had paddled his son with such force that he caused injury, had not been confronted by his church, had not repented, had not sought help to control his anger and violence. He had been taught that his responsibility as a parent involves the regular use of corporal punishment and used it to the extent that it was abusive. Herein lies the problem.

I will not be drawn into a stupid argument about non-Christians or Muslims when I was responding to your original comment, only.

Originally posted by wildtimes

What? That's not fair. BH has asked you (and so have I and others) to expound upon your view, and often you offer only '/shrug' and some philosophic c/p and a music video.

Not this time. Had BH simply answered my question on page 8, I would have been able to proceed from there. BH decided not to answer a question that I asked in good faith.

I have to work my way up to the point I'm trying to make... and if I'm obstructed then it's game over.

reply to post by BlueMule

Well, that's a rather narrow way to look at things. I understand wanting to 'work your way up' to your point - but I don't see it happening in your posts. Instead I see "game over" when someone tries to ask you to please explain....
if you need some time, just say so! You don't have to be "shrugging" people off just because you're not ready to answer their inquiry! Seriously, dude.


Yeah, we get it. You're a Christian Mystic and have lots of study experience into "comparative" mythology, religion, etc and so forth and so on and also....

But we're NOT TOO STUPID to get what you're saying. We're not "grasshoppers", friend.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Well, that's a rather narrow way to look at things. I understand wanting to 'work your way up' to your point - but I don't see it happening in your posts. Instead I see "game over" when someone tries to ask you to please explain....
if you need some time, just say so! You don't have to be "shrugging" people off just because you're not ready to answer their inquiry! Seriously, dude.

I DID answer BH's initial inquiry... on page 7. For my trouble I got a "I guess I wouldn't understand anyway...so buh-bye" I found it dismissive and offensive.

But y'know, I tried. BH didn't.

reply to post by BlueMule

Please, would you address the edit to my post above?::

ME: Yeah, we get it. You're a Christian Mystic and have lots of study experience into "comparative" mythology, religion, etc and so forth and so on and also....

But we're NOT TOO STUPID to get what you're saying. We're not "grasshoppers", friend.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Please, would you address the edit to my post above?::

ME: Yeah, we get it. You're a Christian Mystic and have lots of study experience into "comparative" mythology, religion, etc and so forth and so on and also....

But we're NOT TOO STUPID to get what you're saying. We're not "grasshoppers", friend.

edit on 26-4-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

One accusation at a time, OK? Please address my last post before we move on.

reply to post by wildtimes
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WHAT SHOULD WE DO GO AND ROUND THEM ALL UP AND PUT THEM INTO CAMPS?

reply to post by BlueMule

For my trouble I got a" I found it dismissive and offensive.

But y'know, I tried. BH didn't.

Oh. Okay. You know, I have tendencies to misinterpret people's responses from time to time, too. I've learned to ask questions instead of just shutting down....
if what you hear is someone saying "I guess I wouldn't understand anyway...so buh-bye" (which could be REAL, or could be IMAGINED) when they did not 'say that', perhaps it would be helpful to take a step back. I know how you feel - I've been defensive on ATS as well.

But please, really. Some of us DO want to hear your thoughts etc. If you need time, take your time. Just please don't 'shrug' and walk away.

reply to post by guitarplayer

If you want to jump on my case for using Moslems for my example of extremism then fine that is up to you. Then I will use the case of upper education advocating killing disabled babies before the they reach one month old because they consider them non persons. Would it be fair to lump all upper educational professors into that same group?

WHAT?!!!
Are you 'threatening' me somehow with this?

NO! Please take a deep breath now. And another.
I've already stated that 'lumping people' is inappropriate.
What I asked you was what are you doing about DISCREDITING the people like Westboro Baptist Church, etc.?

Just telling us 'you're not like that' isn't really DOING anything except defending yourself. Are you taking action to stop people like that calling themselves 'Christians'? Because it's "CHRISTIANS" that they are "representing." I would think you'd want to shut them up.

But, maybe I'm wrong. It happens all the time.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Please, would you address the edit to my post above?::

ME: Yeah, we get it. You're a Christian Mystic and have lots of study experience into "comparative" mythology, religion, etc and so forth and so on and also....

But we're NOT TOO STUPID to get what you're saying. We're not "grasshoppers", friend.

edit on 26-4-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

I know ATS is not stupid. It's not about that. It's about background knowledge and personal experience.

Everyone is a grasshopper to someone about something.

reply to post by BlueMule

One accusation at a time, OK? Please address my last post before we move on.

Sure.

For my trouble I got a "I guess I wouldn't understand anyway...so buh-bye" I found it dismissive and offensive.

But y'know, I tried. BH didn't.

You are assuming that BH didn't try. I think she did. I think you misunderstood her intention and her point.

You 'paraphrased' her post and got defensive without trying to think it through. Your own style is pretty 'dismissive', BlueMule, so you have no leg to stand on in accusing others of that. I'm certainly no 'saint' or 'perfect diplomat'. Yeah, I get riled up. I feel tripped and defensive sometimes.....but I TRY not to just "shut down."

I appreciate you asking to please respond one at a time to your posts, though. Fair enough, and no one can fault that.

reply to post by wildtimes


Why don't you start a new thread and ask "who all has been hurt by a parent" and ask what their parents belief system was. then see where the chips fall. My parent were not bible beleivers but I sure got my ass whipped when I did wrong.

reply to post by guitarplayer


What do you think you should do?

If you're concerned that they are misrepresenting you, then DO SOMETHING about it! Aside from saying 'we're not all like that.' Okay, fine, you're not all like that.

But THEY ARE like that!
It's not me they're misrepresenting, it's you....!!

Originally posted by wildtimes

You are assuming that BH didn't try. I think she did. I think you misunderstood her intention and her point.

I think it's pretty clear that BH gave me the brush-off several pages ago.

I then tried again several pages later to initiate conversation by using a slightly different approach that I hoped would be fruitful, only to get a copy-and-paste of a brush-off.

If I'm wrong then BH can simply prove it by going back and answering the first question she blew-off.

reply to post by guitarplayer

Why don't you start a new thread and ask "who all has been hurt by a parent" and ask what their parents belief system was. then see where the chips fall. My parent were not bible beleivers but I sure got my ass whipped when I did wrong.

I already have.
The Varieties of ATS Religious Experience; or, Variations on a Theme

Take your time reading it. Feel free to contribute if you like.