Interpretation of Constitution Will ‘Have to Change’ After Boston Bombing

reply to post by crazyewok


I don't know where you may have gotten the impression people were claiming these HAVE kept us safe from tyranny in modern times. I haven't SEEN tyranny yet to have to pick up a gun against, to be outright blunt about it.

Oh, I'm not blind and I see the infrastructure and framework of potential tyranny that can turn with the flip of a switch more and more as it builds around us. However, there is many a slip between a cup and the lip with armed insurrection being little more than mass murder with creative justifications used until or unless that tyranny becomes more then theory or the merely possible.

I'm well aware of gun laws in England and the wider United Kingdom. I've written about it here at ATS on more than one occasion with detailed chapter/verse of your laws in various sections. Sure..you can use a gun you "kinda sorta" own when they grant you leave to go visit it at a controlled club and from locked storage someone else has 100% full control over. If you so much as touch a firearm in England outside those VERY highly controlled conditions? Well... This gentlemen found out what acting in the interests of public safety gets you there.

A former soldier arrested after handing in a sawn-off shotgun was given a suspended sentence today - but said he should have received an award instead.

Paul Clarke, 27, spotted a black binliner in his back garden earlier this year and discovered it contained a 20 gauge double-barrelled gun.

When he took it to a police station four days later, he was shocked to be arrested for possessing the firearm.

Source

Now mistakes happen and we're FAR from a nation to stand here and say law enforcement doesn't do incredibly stupid things in the heat or judgement of the moment. They do. Daily. However, that normally gets worked out when something happened with the best of intentions to good faith. This was still a criminal record and suspended sentence. Next time, I'm sure he'll have learned to leave it for a child to find first and play with.

People like Bloomberg look to tear up all that makes America special..or HAS before men like him got to it first. He does this, in part, with the cheers and support of those in other nations. Unfortunately, International approval seems important to them now that domestic approval is absolutely terrible toward most of the Nanny State garbage.

In the end though, England has a whole boatload of it's own issues to tend to...as do we. Neither nation has any place to be pointing fingers at the other or, anyone ELSE for that matter. Not until Capital Hill and the Parliament get a big flush down the toilet of change, at the VERY least. (And a few BIG city Mayors, as my thread here points out. )

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


O Britain has loads of problems. That for another thread.

As for tyranny it is going that way in the USA.

Look at Boston innocent people where being dargged out of there homes at gunpoint without warrent. Where were there guns then?

You can detain people without trial in toture camps (that what Guatanimo bay is).

You have countless exceutive orders and procedures in place for mass forced detainment of people a precedent which was set in world war 2 against the American Japanese.

You have the TSA violating the old sick and young at airports.

Tyranny is already in the USA.

reply to post by crazyewok

You're right.... America bashing while holding your own nation up as somehow superior to be bashing from ...IS for another thread. You said it, I didn't. You could follow your own outstanding advice though ...in which case I'll be MORE than happy to back every point I've made with what could be called a truckload on sourced basis for each one.

Let me know if you do start a thread to carry on that bashing...I'd hate to miss the opportunity. Alas, this isn't the thread for it though ...good point. So, I'll defer comment with that in mind ....never to be mistaken for the thought I don't have a very powerful reply to make ..if in a different setting.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by crazyewok

 

You're right.... America bashing while holding your own nation up as somehow superior to be bashing from ...IS for another thread. You said it, I didn't. You could follow your own outstanding advice though ...in which case I'll be MORE than happy to back every point I've made with what could be called a truckload on sourced basis for each one.

Let me know if you do start a thread to carry on that bashing...I'd hate to miss the opportunity. Alas, this isn't the thread for it though ...good point. So, I'll defer comment with that in mind ....never to be mistaken for the thought I don't have a very powerful reply to make ..if in a different setting.

WTF are you on about. Im not allowed to comment on thsi thread because Im not American? Cause last time I checked its a international forum.
Im not bashing America Im pointing out how you goverment is erodeing your country and what it stands for. You cant deny the points I listed above. Warrentless forced entrys, abusive TSA and dentention without trial and toture.

But I guess they are releying on blind patriots who are too busy trying to defend how great thier country to catch on how its going down hill.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Here's my thoughts. Firstly, someone was always going to need to say these things, according to the schemes of the 1% club (I like that phrase, will borrow it from hereon out when describing the Elite - unless there's Wrabbit trademark..?)

As in, after the event, after the 'de facto' state of martial law, after the shakedown - in which we get told that the terrorists were radicalised by CONSPIRACY SITES in tandem with a mysterious individual who was either a radical muslim, or a CIA handler.. After all that, someone had to deliver the message as a seed into the consciousness of the American public via the media (you'll hear the soundbyte again & again) - the message that the Constitution is outdated, and you will need to depart from liberty in order to trade it for security.

Precisely what the Founding Fathers warned you against ever doing.

You want to know something interesting? On the same day, here in the UK, we get told that our Home Secretary (head of security for the UK), and our Prime Minister, and a number of other senior government members have discussed LEAVING the European Treaty on Human Rights.

They cite a roughly equable reason, in that our stoic defence of Human Rights has thus far ensured that a particular nasty terrorist man cannot be deported because of legal wrangling based in Human Rights legislation (in this case, he really is a nasty terrorist scumbag, Abu Qatada - we get reminded all the time about the case, several times a year it's front page 'outrage', which I suppose was to condition us to accept a 'temporary' withdrawal from the protection of our Human Rights..)

Isn't that interesting - that for the sake of one small supposedly 'amateur' terror attack (small by scale compared to many others, though no less tragic) that American politicians are now beginning to sound off against the Constitution. And, at the same time, the UK is considering leaving a seriously vital treaty, which empowers many of the 'little people' here in the UK to get justice in cases of persecution by the state or corporations. Human Rights, or Constitutional Rights, to be abandoned, announced as such within a day of each other on opposite sides of the Atlantic, and both as a result of relatively small particular risks or threats.

Consider that if this idea had been touted in the aftermath of 9/11, it would have ended the political career of a small town councillor. Now, the Mayor of New York can say it, and it will likely gain him some traction in his own personal part to play, politically speaking, that he was willing to deliver the pre-rehearsed soundbyte.

Also worth noting that it is no coincidence that the Mayor of New York was chosen. The heart-strings of 9/11 are being pulled again - all in the name of furthering the globalist agenda.

How much more of this will it take before we all realise exactly who is in charge?

Are we collectively, as Westerners, suffering from 'frog in the pot' syndrome? Not noticing as the heat of diabolical scheming is turned up - not realising we're being cooked alive, until it's too late to jump out?

ARGH!

It is literally the height of frustration to know that these criminal fascist bastards can get away with it, laughing at us, that we accept their pious play-acting and hand over our liberty & rights to legal protection.

DON'T DO IT..!

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by crazyewok

 

You're right.... America bashing while holding your own nation up as somehow superior to be bashing from ...IS for another thread. You said it, I didn't. You could follow your own outstanding advice though ...in which case I'll be MORE than happy to back every point I've made with what could be called a truckload on sourced basis for each one.

Let me know if you do start a thread to carry on that bashing...I'd hate to miss the opportunity. Alas, this isn't the thread for it though ...good point. So, I'll defer comment with that in mind ....never to be mistaken for the thought I don't have a very powerful reply to make ..if in a different setting.

WTF are you on about. Im not allowed to comment on thsi thread because Im not American? Cause last time I checked its a international forum.
Im not bashing America Im pointing out how you goverment is erodeing your country and what it stands for. You cant deny the points I listed above. Warrentless forced entrys, abusive TSA and dentention without trial and toture.

But I guess they are releying on blind patriots who are too busy trying to defend how great thier country to catch on how its going down hill.

edit on 25-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Okay, you started and have been "on about" our "stupid guns" and American gun rights since your first post to me on this thread. There are hundreds of gun related threads on ATS. I'm a part of a fair % of those in the last year or two, in fact. This thread wasn't started or intended to focus on guns, least of all drawing contrast between the United Kingdom and United States vs,. weapons, guns, and the outcome of crime in either nation. In fact, Bloomberg's running on about a BOMBING, not a SHOOTING in the first place ..which makes the outright straw man argument to derail the focus all the more blatant.

It's not about what you can or can't talk about. I have no place to say that...but I DO have every right to address the issue within the narrow scope of my reply as made directly to a side chat you initiated on the topic.

Take the anti-gun, anti-american nonsense somewhere else...is my general opinion and oddly, it's the second time in 24hrs I've ended up saying about the same thing to a British citizen, harping on guns within a thread that either had *NOTHING* to do with that or only touched on it in the slightest, most peripheral way.

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Here's my thoughts. Firstly, someone was always going to need to say these things, according to the schemes of the 1% club (I like that phrase, will borrow it from hereon out when describing the Elite - unless there's Wrabbit trademark..?)

Nope.. No trademark. I don't think it's unique but I figured it fit well, eh? When he's carrying a net worth of 27 Billion dollars...and exceeds the literal GDP of the bottom 50% of nations in the world by that? How else can one describe the guy? It's amazing, isn't it?

As in, after the event, after the 'de facto' state of martial law, after the shakedown - in which we get told that the terrorists were radicalised by CONSPIRACY SITES in tandem with a mysterious individual who was either a radical muslim, or a CIA handler.. After all that, someone had to deliver the message as a seed into the consciousness of the American public via the media (you'll hear the soundbyte again & again) - the message that the Constitution is outdated, and you will need to depart from liberty in order to trade it for security.

Oh, I'm getting a kick out of that logic too. How websites could have created the problem is beyond me. A couple infamous people from the past and criminal "legend" were ATS members too. Sadly. These overlaps do happen... I agree it's just outrageous that anyone try and draw cause and effect with it, in even a passing way.

You want to know something interesting? On the same day, here in the UK, we get told that our Home Secretary (head of security for the UK), and our Prime Minister, and a number of other senior government members have discussed LEAVING the European Treaty on Human Rights.

WW ... Is that as big a deal as it sounds? reading the rest you said on it sure sounds like it. That can't be good news for the folks over there. It's every major nation, isn't it? We're all being lowered to a common denominator so we're all equally suffering in the end.

Isn't that interesting - that for the sake of one small supposedly 'amateur' terror attack (small by scale compared to many others, though no less tragic) that American politicians are now beginning to sound off against the Constitution. And, at the same time, the UK is considering leaving a seriously vital treaty, which empowers many of the 'little people' here in the UK to get justice in cases of persecution by the state or corporations.

Very well put. It was amateur hour for a terrorist attack ....in any reasonable comparison of the organized and professional level attacks going back to the first PLO Hijacking in 1968. This was two homemade nut jobs acting out ... and yet, no crisis goes to waste it seems. Again, agreed at how quickly such a thing is used to jump our traidtional rights on many levels. (2nd, 4th, 5th and 10th amendments ..and counting )

Consider that if this idea had been touted in the aftermath of 9/11, it would have ended the political career of a small town councillor.

So much has changed...so quickly, hasn't it? You sound like you have the age to recall the "pre-war" years before your nation and mine decided the world needed changing again. World War II and the aftermath in particular, apparently wasn't change enough. Too bad the world isn't on the same sheet of music to the national priorities of our nation's leaders. (Not citizens of course...leaders.)

It is literally the height of frustration to know that these criminal fascist bastards can get away with it, laughing at us, that we accept their pious play-acting and hand over our liberty & rights to legal protection.

It's something I've really felt depressed about at times. I once had some thoughts of going to Australia for a few years at some point to drive the road trains or other work. Just to see the place and experience living there. Now I read from the citizens there how much it's changed too.

Likewise, my Father-in-Law who recently passed was Scottish and in the middle of the legal immigration process to move here for telling me all about the U.K. as it stands today ...and dashing hopes of England being a refuge from the abuses we're seeing in America now. What is left? Like Reagan said ...when freedom falls here, there is nowhere left in the world to run. It's over.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You know what's really weird?

This is the last section from my original post in this thread. I was reading your response when I noticed that the very last words had been changed.. Not by me.

It is literally the height of frustration to know that these criminal fascist bastards can get away with it, laughing at us, that we accept their pious play-acting and hand over our liberty & rights to legal protection.

Those words I have highlighted were not my choice, not by a country mile. I have no idea who changed them, and now I can't quite remember what I originally wrote there, I think it was 'for security'...

I am officially creeped out. I was just composing a thread aimed at highlighting several strange things that have occurred in parallel in the USA and UK since the Boston bombings, all of which seem aimed at furthering the globalist agenda towards erosion of liberty & exertion of control. I skipped back to this thread to check on a detail I'd noticed on this page, then read your response to my post, and immediately saw the changes once I'd read through to the last quote you'd made. I write carefully, and there is no way on earth I would ever construct the end of a sentence in the way that particular sentence ended. I certainly didn't include the word 'legal', because if anything, the trading of security I was talking about is the sort that I'd consider to be illusory, not legal in the slightest..!!

Now, without sounding too paranoid, (and I have learnt that it is impossible not to sound paranoid, when you write that as a pretext), I have known that certain elements of my personal situation were monitored for a long, long time, it having been confirmed from a number of variably-allied sources & even heavily involved family members.

However, this is the first time anyone has gone in and changed my words on the www.

I worry somewhat about the choice of those replacement words too, if you see what I mean. Hmm. Giving this some more thought before posting the new thread, considering that my next words after the changed ones were ''DON'T DO IT''.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Okay, you started and have been "on about" our "stupid guns"

No you missed the point, You obviously so fixated on the fact a UK citizen mentioned GUNS you completely missed by point. My point is loads of Americans harp on about guns protecting them from tyranny and good why are you not acting yet? The way your going by the time you do use your guns and militia it will be too late.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
There are hundreds of gun related threads on ATS. I'm a part of a fair % of those in the last year or two, in fact. This thread wasn't started or intended to focus on guns,

I know the thread is about the erosion of your liberty's and constitution. My basic point is instead of you American whining online or talking big why don't you actually do something!

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
least of all drawing contrast between the United Kingdom and United States vs,. weapons, guns, and the outcome of crime in either nation.

IM not. UK and USA are completely different. What works for you guys don't work for us. MostbBrits will always view guns as stupid and unnecessary and most American view them as sacred. If that what the majority of you guys thing then you should have you guns.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
In fact, Bloomberg's running on about a BOMBING, not a SHOOTING in the first place ..which makes the outright straw man argument to derail the focus all the more blatant.

Well DUH I know that but the results still the same. Erosion of what you American hold dear.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Take the anti-gun,

Nope as I have said have your guns if that what you want.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
anti-american

Nope as I only pointed out how your government is wrecking your nation. Why did you start the thread if not to criticise those in power.

Threat of thermo nuclear war and the credo is no compromise on full blown capitalism. A couple of dead and injured and all those amendments need to be rendered void by acts and reinterpreted?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


To allow "interpretations" rather than following the Constitution verbatim is asking for severe problems.

We already allow too many convenient "interpretations".

Perhaps one of those new interpretations will be that we need to incarcerate the bottom 10% of the population in order to lower unemployment, lower crime and create a safer Amerika.

After all doesn't "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." mean that we should eliminate the scum in the country? That would, indeed, create a more perfect union, provide for the common defence and promote the general welfare.

There is a process for changing and updating the Constitution that doesn't involve legislating from the Bench. It's called Amendments. One that would require a popular vote or a vote by the state's legislatures.