Anyone like me think theres nothing special about area-51?

reply to post by gariac


To be honnest i agree with aircraft R&D and most conventional weapons are developed either in normal bases or i n private sector labs ( in fact i know they are),

No sort of research im talking about would be illegal or unethical. Such as biological and chemical weapons as well as genetical engerneering.

reply to post by crazyewok


The only thing that I thing that we know for sure about Area 51 is that it comes right after Area 50 and right before Area 52! No, just kidding! It's just a big empty space where the politicians can go, and do karaoke and run around naked, and burn flags and stuff like that. There are no aliens there, they prefer Vegas !

I always wondered if the government planted the "alien" ideas about Roswell and is happy that most believe that's what is actually going on there. It would definitely cut down on a lot of folks maybe digging a little deeper and possibly finding out something even more sinister.



Yeah. I know....

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


You may be pretty close to the truth actually, during the u-2 and sr-71/a-12 programs the CIA actually promoted the UFO stories to distract people from finding out about those programs.

reply to post by CarbonBase


Agree.


I dont think there are any aliens or lizzard people there.

I think its pretty mundane Aircraft and some weapons testing.

I had a freind here in the UK who worked for BAE. Most the R&D for the weapons system he worked on (was pretty amazing from what he was allowed to say and if anyone intrested Im allowed to tell them now) was done in private sector labs and offices but they would fly out to the USA to meet speclists over there and do the weapons testing at a undisclosed location.


To be honnest I think if people got public access to Area-51 they would be disappointed. All they would see if Experimnetal Aircraft and concept aircraft that are waiting to be tested or which have failed testing and hence just in storage and a great big equipment storage dump.

reply to post by gariac


Actually to be honest I don't think allot of hidden bases and facilities would even be "underground" some of them would be right under our noses in cities and towns in "benign" places, I know this first hand to some degree.

I know that it would be very easy to outsource any odd R&D to private companies. I can vouch for this first hand how easy it can be. I work in the bio-tec microbiology sector. In the big private companies things are very compartmentalised. In the labs I have worked for I could get samples get samples and projects to process that I then pass on to another department and I have no idea what the end process is, even my managers where clueless. It is very easy to keep people in the dark. Obviously most of this is to stop industrial espionage but it would be very easy to do something illegal and unethical. Infact I got into bother at one place. I was dealing with MRSA and they wanted me to keep some of the data off the books and I refused.

Im not really into whistle blowing and not going to spill all I know cause I haven't the guts.

But again I know first hand how easy it is to hide a unwelcome facility under the public noises. when working at the same company as mentioned above we used to transfer some of our processes over to a another facility. Most of us like me knew the facility existed but only a handful of people in the company new were the place was. All I knew (and I had to dig for some of this) was that it was in central London and it was half private half government controlled and it was hidden as part of a hospital (from what I heard a building joining onto it). All I know of what happened inside was animal related and it wasn't nice (I do know micro sample I sent off where infected into animal and immunogloblins extracted) and allot of what went of there I wasn't allowed to know, hell even those who worked in the company that went there didn't know all of what went on. Also what was interesting was the type of people who knew and had been to the site. These where the sort of people who would dissect a puppy just for fun to see what's inside(maybe a exageration but you get the point). There was two normal people who knew, one who was sent there as a emergency once to collect sample as one of the other people was off sick and they were pretty disturbed when they came back.

I can also vouch that the Bio hazard 3 and even 4 labs that are publicly known that deal with dangerous pathogens are just the tip of the ice berg. I have worked in two hidden level 3 labs with once place considering putting a level 4 in without public knowlage.

I know your a skeptic so what I say wont be taken serously without hard evidence (which I cant give or I would be sued to high heaven and get a crap load of people in trouble too). But I can give you a precedent of "benign" places doing dodgy stuff en.wikipedia.org... So what Im saying isnt complety out there and weird.

Yeah, I don't believe there's anything dodgy about A51 but then again, I'm into military R&D so it fascinates me. I'm intrigued by the whole S4 business though... I don't know whether I believe in it or not. Adds to the mystery I guess.

reply to post by crazyewok


I'm inclined to agree with you crazyewok , they test secret aircraft there, if I remember correctly I'm sure the runway there is the longest in the world,

reply to post by pigsy2400


The runway at groom isn't the longest in the world, the runway at Edwards AFB is the longest measuring in at 39,097 feet. The longest one at groom was 24,000
Feet but has since been closed.

the U.S. government did not even acknowledge until 29 September 1995

Do I think there are little grey men underground? Nope.

Most likely the only thing there is military R&D.

I always wonder though, to use lethal force, there must be some goodies hidden down there.

The biggest thing I think "could" be down there would be alternative energy sources. You can't make a profit with those so they get locked deep underground and guarded 24/7 with the authorization to use deadly force to keep it quiet.

Originally posted by micmerci
I wonder why military personnel with top secret security clearance ( able to handle nukes) are not high enough security level clearance to access Area 51?

What is it that makes you think that anyone with a Top Secret clearance is able to handle nukes, or that anyone with a Top Secret clearance would have a need to have access to Groom Lake?

Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by micmerci
I wonder why military personnel with top secret security clearance ( able to handle nukes) are not high enough security level clearance to access Area 51?

What is it that makes you think that anyone with a Top Secret clearance is able to handle nukes, or that anyone with a Top Secret clearance would have a need to have access to Groom Lake?

Yep, it's all about "Need to Know" and compartmentalization.

reply to post by crazyewok

I have worked in two hidden level 3 labs with once place considering putting a level 4 in without public knowlage.

OK, call me a skeptic. Oh wait, you already did, but that is fine. I am a skeptic.

Public knowledge needs to be defined. Are we talking no occupancy permit? No permit for hazardous materials? If this isn't in Texas, I have my doubts.

I know of a medical lab without signage. The place isn't open to the public. But the building is in plain view in the flats of Berkeley. No sign, and a lot of cameras It But it didn't take me more than about a half hour to find out what they did there by searching the assessor's office database. I'm sure if I walked into city hall, there would be a pile of permits.

You may recall in the 90s the Clinton administration got this brilliant idea of trying to build a germ factory using gear bought through the internet. The internet was new enough back then that it was an interesting experiment. They set it up on the Nevada Test Site. Apparently it worked well. Unfortunately, it violated a bioweapon treaty the US had signed and cause a bit of a kerfuffle. A mea culpa was uttered, and all was forgiven. But note they did this on the NTS. One obvious reason was in the event something bad happened, well it is the NTS after all. ;-) But also no permits were needed since on the NTS, anything goes. Note the environmental study for the AOF at Yucca Dry Lake didn't come out for a few years after it was seen on Google Earth. Mind you I spent time on the phone with the public affairs office at the NTS asking for the environmental study for the new facility and it took me a while to even get them to admit it existed. Good luck building anything anywhere else (other than Texas) without a permit. Good luck running the facility without insurance, and of course, the insurance company will want to know what you are doing there.

I think it serves as a distraction while the real 'top secret' bases are even beyond the scope of recognition.

As for a military base, based around the suppression of alien technologies from the public's view..............
I have to say it's possible because of the possibility of extra-terrestrial inorganic probes.

They would need to suppress that information for them to continue on the way they do.

Just a FYI on "use of deadly force." It has been gone from the front gate signs for a few years. This photograph was taken in 2010:



I didn't log the date of this sign, but it is older. Maybe 2008.


Here is the set of signs with deadly force:


I'm not really sure the use of deadly force was ever really kosher. I had to sign a document once authorizing use of deadly force on me to enter a restricted area (even with a minder). I can see the use of deadly force in that situation since they have your signature on the document. It is like the "No Photography" signs, which really mean no photography once you are on base. Though there again, you will sign paperwork indicating that you will not take photographs without authorization. The courts have pretty much ruled photography restrictions null and void with a few tricky exceptions. [You can't photograph a person in a place where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy.]

As far as Groom Lake being a place to test secret aircraft and weapon systems...of course! Anything else, I don't think so.

reply to post by gariac


O I live in the UK so laws may be diffrent. Im not 100% on how it works in USA.

As for public knowlage I mean only the Goverment was allowed to know. Yes the building was in plain site but it looked like a normal building. We just wernt allowed to say what was handled in such labs. Reason being to stop any protests and community ralleys interfering. Yeah we had permits like hazardus material permits but that can mean anything. What was stored and handled there was only known by the homeoffice. Another reason was the secrecy was the fact that we had a couple of agents that could be used i biowarfare (we made diagnostic kits) and so it was a case of easier to use secrecy for security than fork out more millions for heavy security that would alert the locals to something.

reply to post by crazyewok


Even if the government keeps it all hush hush, somebody has to set up the lab equipment. Laminar flow hoods I suppose in your case. I am accustomed to clean rooms with positive pressure, but I would presume bio labs use negative pressure. [Clean rooms keep stuff out, buy you need to keep stuff in.] Unless you have a staff of licensed electricians and such, somebody outside the company will know about the lab. These facilities require skilled engineering and construction.

Even Groom Lake has EPA inspections of some sort these days post the toxic waste burning fiasco.

Here is a classic fubar of some outfit, here the NYPD, trying to set up an operating facility in "secret."
NYPD busted!

This eventually lead to the discovery that the CIA was working with NYPD. The CIA is not allowed to spy domestically.

Note that most industrial property owners inspect their properties more than on a 5 year period. Probably quarterly. Nobody wants to find a meth lab, grow house, or some other criminal activity on their property. It is good business to do such inspections, and it is in the lease.

Unless your "secret" facility behaves like a boring old office, it will be discovered. This isn't to say there aren't offices holding spooks. For instance, the group managing the camo dudes used to have a rental office in Henderson. Nellis had or maybe still has a facility at the Greystone Office Park on Flamingo in Las Vegas. Not too far from McCarran. This was revealed in a lawsuit a few years ago, but the building was also mentioned in Desert Rat #35. When you tell the rental office you don't want to be in the office directory, that is a sure sign something fishy is going on. In fact, that is just terrible trade craft. They should just create a shell company and give the office a cover story. That is not perfect these days since it is easy to discover if a company has no business activity, but it is better than nothing. You may recall some of the contractors were leery of the fake company Lockheed set up for the U-2 because it had no D&B data.

I think it is just some sort of military installation. I don't care if there is a flying saucer in there, they will never let me in to see it anyway. I just can't get exited about that place for some reason.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by crazyewok

 

Even if the government keeps it all hush hush, somebody has to set up the lab equipment. Laminar flow hoods I suppose in your case. I am accustomed to clean rooms with positive pressure, but I would presume bio labs use negative pressure. [Clean rooms keep stuff out, buy you need to keep stuff in.] Unless you have a staff of licensed electricians and such, somebody outside the company will know about the lab. These facilities require skilled engineering and construction.

Even Groom Lake has EPA inspections of some sort these days post the toxic waste burning fiasco.

Here is a classic fubar of some outfit, here the NYPD, trying to set up an operating facility in "secret."
NYPD busted!

This eventually lead to the discovery that the CIA was working with NYPD. The CIA is not allowed to spy domestically.

Note that most industrial property owners inspect their properties more than on a 5 year period. Probably quarterly. Nobody wants to find a meth lab, grow house, or some other criminal activity on their property. It is good business to do such inspections, and it is in the lease.

Unless your "secret" facility behaves like a boring old office, it will be discovered. This isn't to say there aren't offices holding spooks. For instance, the group managing the camo dudes used to have a rental office in Henderson. Nellis had or maybe still has a facility at the Greystone Office Park on Flamingo in Las Vegas. Not too far from McCarran. This was revealed in a lawsuit a few years ago, but the building was also mentioned in Desert Rat #35. When you tell the rental office you don't want to be in the office directory, that is a sure sign something fishy is going on. In fact, that is just terrible trade craft. They should just create a shell company and give the office a cover story. That is not perfect these days since it is easy to discover if a company has no business activity, but it is better than nothing. You may recall some of the contractors were leery of the fake company Lockheed set up for the U-2 because it had no D&B data.

I dont want to reveal the company but this will most likely give it away. They MAKE the lab equioment. It a very big compnay and they have there contrustion people. Which is funny as they screwed the Lab up when it first opened by screwing the ne pressure system up.

As for inspection yeah but again its down within compnay and the out side inspecters just give it a pass if it passes. Unless we are haveing Anthrax snowball fights they wont blow anything to the public.

Yeah its hard to keep a secret and the NYPD/CIA base was blown. But dont be naive. For every base blown there could be 5 more that are hidden.

Garlic you seem quite knowledgeable. I agree you cant dig a underground base without someone noticing, well its not impossible but would be bloody hard and not as easy as some conspiracy theorists think.

Bu what about adapting natural underground Cavens and cave complexes? I have been to a few public ones and have friends that have gone spelunking. These things can be HUGE. Would you think on say the military converting one. It wouldn't be hard to I don't think In fact when I was working at coca cola the site was built on a old chalk and natural caverns and they converted alot of them into warehouses.

Also a few miles away the Gov did the same thing in world war two but converting them into a massive air raid shelter. And its impressive what they did in a very short time.

Also regarding hidden underground bases is the fact that in the UK which is small and hard to find anything people still keep stumbling on old hidden ammo dumps and big bomb shelters that are not on maps so somehow someone hid these.