Boston is a Farce to Take your Rights Away

Originally posted by stussy123
My question is : Cant this incident be used as an accelerant of debated laws like NDAA, drones, gun control? You do agree that this is a precedent , Right?

Oh without a doubt. I'm pretty sure they had all this going on with the Bush administration but I think they realized it wasn't going to fly with a Republican president. Notice how most of the liberal criticism for big government that we had under Bush evaporated instantly when Obama was elected.

Originally posted by BrianFlanders

Originally posted by stussy123
My question is : Cant this incident be used as an accelerant of debated laws like NDAA, drones, gun control? You do agree that this is a precedent , Right?

Oh without a doubt. I'm pretty sure they had all this going on with the Bush administration but I think they realized it wasn't going to fly with a Republican president. Notice how most of the liberal criticism for big government that we had under Bush evaporated instantly when Obama was elected.

Good! So this very incident can have a big impact on the future of this nation , legislative wise. Right?

Originally posted by BrianFlanders

Originally posted by Telos
While the attention of the american people and the whole world is focused on what was happening at Boston Marathon and West Texas few days later, House of Representative passes in total silence the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act, known otherwise as CISPA.This notorious bill undermines the privacy of millions of internet users. Welcome to the new Age of Control and shrinking of civil liberties under the guise of security. New World Order just sucks!!!

I just hate how sheep we've become as masses.

This is nothing new. Democracy is basically groupthink. People have been worshiping groupthink and collectivism as the greatest thing in the world for a long time. Society (as we know it) is based upon the hive mentality. It has it's advantages but it is obviously not too much fun when you don't conform.

And how is this answering to what I said? Every educated man knows the basic principles of democracy and I for once didn't need your "lesson" on group thinking or collectivism. And you're wrong. We as humans are "special" exactly because of our INDIVIDUALITY. The opposite is the hive mentality, the one I'm referring to in my comment. That is forced upon us, not what we are. And that's the one we should fight.

Boston is a Farce to Take your Rights Away

Shouldn't this be under hoax.

You do know that people lost life and limb yes? No?

Not only is it not believable, but it's not even funny.

Originally posted by Miracula

Boston is a Farce to Take your Rights Away

Shouldn't this be under hoax.

You do know that people lost life and limb yes? No?

Not only is it not believable, but it's not even funny.

Miracula wake up. Nobody is doubting the bombs but the motifs behind those. People are questioning the veracity of the official version of the facts. At least that's what we do in a conspiracy forum. Do you know you're on ATS?

Originally posted by stussy123

Nope he woulda bled out in minutes. He would npot be in a wheelchair. I watched him put on the prosthetics frame by frame. Im starting to think theres some real disinfo going on rite now

With proper triage he wouldn't have bled out in minutes but keep believing that.

It's ok though keep believing what you want and I hope you are never in a attack where your legs are blown off and someone says "screw him, he is going to bleed out in minutes"

Originally posted by stussy123
You know Im done debating if this was a false flag or not. BOTTOM LINE is I can bet he's gonna fry if found guilty. The trending hashtags #freejahar ,etc are just ways of tracking "radical" people. He's guilty automatically in the public eyes right now evident by Twitter. My question is : Cant this incident be used as an accelerant of debated laws like NDAA, drones, gun control? You do agree that this is a precedent , Right?

The problem with your line of thinking is no matter what the proof shows..No matter if they have a video of him doing exactly what it is claimed happened you will refuse to believe it.

Originally posted by Miracula

Boston is a Farce to Take your Rights Away

Shouldn't this be under hoax.

You do know that people lost life and limb yes? No?

Not only is it not believable, but it's not even funny.

The Constitution isn't a hoax.
And having undeclared martial law (yet meeting the criteria) is illegal, and immoral.

Explain how these philosophical principles are hoaxes please, because that is the subject of the thread.

Originally posted by opethPA

Originally posted by stussy123
You know Im done debating if this was a false flag or not. BOTTOM LINE is I can bet he's gonna fry if found guilty. The trending hashtags #freejahar ,etc are just ways of tracking "radical" people. He's guilty automatically in the public eyes right now evident by Twitter. My question is : Cant this incident be used as an accelerant of debated laws like NDAA, drones, gun control? You do agree that this is a precedent , Right?

The problem with your line of thinking is no matter what the proof shows..No matter if they have a video of him doing exactly what it is claimed happened you will refuse to believe it.

It doesn't matter who did it.

Declaring quasi-martial law with fancy cover words is technically illegal by law.
Using fear propaganda to compel the population to giving up their liberties is also illegal, when it's done from a global monopolistic standpoint. Using lobbyists to control the FCC so you can make sure no competing political voices get permits to create their own mainstream news stations is an illegal tactic, and can be prosecuted under organized crime laws (RICO and related).

That's the tip of the iceberg of societal rot you are protecting?
Say it isn't so.
Say you disagree with these highly illegal practices and that you hope we can take down these mafioso's and put an end to this racket.

Any set of possibilities about who bled where and how or didn't bleed, or whats fake and isn't fake, are irrelevant immaterial to this discussion about the longer term implications of the matter.

Although I don't really mind such discussions they are towards the direction of becoming off-topic, albeit related and connected.

For anyone following along, this is a good example how to create a thread about something, and keep it steaming forward and avoid derailment.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
It doesn't matter who did it.

Declaring quasi-martial law with fancy cover words is technically illegal by law.
Using fear propaganda to compel the population to giving up their liberties is also illegal, when it's done from a global monopolistic standpoint. Using lobbyists to control the FCC so you can make sure no competing political voices get permits to create their own mainstream news stations is an illegal tactic, and can be prosecuted under organized crime laws (RICO and related).

That's the tip of the iceberg of societal rot you are protecting?
Say it isn't so.
Say you disagree with these highly illegal practices and that you hope we can take down these mafioso's and put an end to this racket.

I will respectfully disagree with your line of thinking that this was Martial Law.

It seems everyone is on the same page that Martial Law was never officially declared. In speaking to the person I know in Boston he was able to leave his apartment even after the Shelter In Place request was made. Granted this was after the police had searched his apt so they may have thought he was clear.

Where my tune on this could change is if over the next few weeks to months arrests are made of large numbers of people from intelligence gathered when they were looking for the alleged terrorist. If their were investigations of people going prior to it that is one thing but if it turns out to be different then my mind will start to change.

Until or if that starts to happen I believe the authorities acted in the best way they knew how, within the confines of our laws and constitution to resolve an issue that has never occurred before in modern America.

Originally posted by Telos

Originally posted by Miracula

Boston is a Farce to Take your Rights Away

Shouldn't this be under hoax.

You do know that people lost life and limb yes? No?

Not only is it not believable, but it's not even funny.

Miracula wake up. Nobody is doubting the bombs but the motifs behind those. People are questioning the veracity of the official version of the facts. At least that's what we do in a conspiracy forum. Do you know you're on ATS?

Yes, but all of those specific instances are also easy opportunities to be shot down or ridiculed or attacked. They are a weakness to winning a real argument about the real situation going on.
To argue with instances you would need a very good set of evidences, so you can counter each counter-claim to your suggestions.

If you notice I purposely avoided bothering with that stuff in this thread, as a defensive measure so that my 2 main points would stand strong as they are based on pure philosophy and the only way to beat that is with a better philosophy. Which no one can come close to providing as a counter.

Sacrificing liberty for security leaves you with neither.

Originally posted by opethPA

I will respectfully disagree with your line of thinking that this was Martial Law.

It seems everyone is on the same page that Martial Law was never officially declared. In speaking to the person I know in Boston he was able to leave his apartment even after the Shelter In Place request was made. Granted this was after the police had searched his apt so they may have thought he was clear.

Where my tune on this could change is if over the next few weeks to months arrests are made of large numbers of people from intelligence gathered when they were looking for the alleged terrorist. If their were investigations of people going prior to it that is one thing but if it turns out to be different then my mind will start to change.

Until or if that starts to happen I believe the authorities acted in the best way they knew how, within the confines of our laws and constitution to resolve an issue that has never occurred before in modern America.

Thankfully, the majority of the community apparently believes the government and media went way too far with all of this, and they are very suspicious as a result.
That is a good thing.

Funny that in real life, a lot these so called "normal people", who I tend to think of as always agreeing with the "official stories", are actually questioning the martial law aspect of this for once.

I saw tons of "normal people" from RL around me here in Austin calling it out.
And no they don't follow AJ, not the ones I know of that I refer to.
They aren't into any of this "alternative topics" stuff that I can tell.

So the fact these totally average people are bewildered and suspicious is amazing and in my assessment, a very good thing.

reply to post by opethPA


Can you explain how giving up liberties to a power-hungry government provides safety?

How does being fearful of terrorists help our society?

Does giving into fear and paranoia of petty terrorists make us stronger or weaker as a nation?

You tell me.

Originally posted by opethPA

Until or if that starts to happen I believe the authorities acted in the best way they knew how, within the confines of our laws and constitution to resolve an issue that has never occurred before in modern America.

I warn you this is a foolish line of thinking.

Our liberties are our shield, our armor against Tyranny.

You are suggesting we take our only real defense down, and don't consider it a bad decision until AFTER someone punches your gut? This is absurd. You are begging to be attacked again because the benefits of the attacks are tremendous.

The world is a harsh place sometimes, it's wise to keep your armor on at all times, especially in a world full of terrorists who want to trample those liberties in the first place.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Really wished you worded your thread better. People are hung up on "it was a false flag / the government did it" approach. I am assuming that wasn't the goal of your thread?

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Really wished you worded your thread better. People are hung up on "it was a false flag / the government did it" approach. I am assuming that wasn't the goal of your thread?

Correct. My approach is "It doesn't matter who did it, the media/govt never waste a crisis". And that using a crisis for political gain to justify trampling innocent people's liberty is a criminal act punishable by law (too bad the courts are kangaroos).

They can take real events and usurp them for their own plans/agenda. And they do that, and are doing that.
The way the media badmouths freedom in general consistently over the years is also a telling factor of what their feelings really are (over the wider scope of things).

reply to post by MidnightTide


No it definitely wasn't, and it's a shame that the thread devolved to that. Although I don't entirely agree with Muzzleflash, or yourself, I do respect the way you went about presenting your arguments.

I am guilty of responding to the 'crazies', so it's partially my fault the thread took a nosedive. For that I apologise Muzzleflash.

Yes its past if this is a ff or not. He's in custody. The future is what Im looking towards. Should be pretty interesting

Originally posted by masta12d

Do you have a solution? And calling ourselves sheep is playing into there hands as well. Call it what it is, slavery. People don't know they lost their liberties because they/we are still free to be happy little slaves. Go to work, go get smashed, go to work, etc etc. people don't know true wealth and freedom because they never had it. Everyone hates the welfare state then dreads the idea of having to support themselves. So best not to rock the boat and pray the other side doesn't go for that next power grab. It's sad reall, we have been conditioned to accept "this" for freedom and frightened from fearmongering that all the nasties will come out and prey on we hopeless saps.

The only ones preying on us is our dear government and it is the only thing we need to fear. If the top 1% didn't have 99% of the worlds wealth people wouldn't be desperate and kill each other for food and material. The mere fact that this simple concept escapes proves we are doomed.

That sounds like a very reasonable argument to me.
I like to consider the possibilities.

I'd rather have a sad horrific truth than a fluffy nice lie.
The only way to improve a horrific truth is to know of it's existence and understand it, that way we can take the correct actions to address it.