Help me understand why you support Bush...

Now to respond the question as to why I voted for Bush, it is simple.
i saw him as a much better candidate for presidency than Kerry. whatever spin democrats/liberals try to give, once more to the result of this election, Bush was the only right candidate for what is happening in the US and the world.

Would i prefer if there was peace all over the world, and if we didn't have to take care of terrorists, and terrorist sponsor nations who have attacked us, as well as others, and have threatened to do so once again?

You betcha, but I am not an idealist, I am a realist. i call it as i see it, in the world today, peace is a luxury we can not afford. If we let our guard down once more, terrorist would have attacked the US once again. It is very probable we will get attacked again anyways, but at least we are doing something about it and not waiting with our arms crossed for terrorists to attack.


---edited to correct mistakes---


[edit on 3-11-2004 by Muaddib]

majic? lol u seem like a child and i am currently in university, please don't attack me , i have not attacked anyone on this board only made my opinions as clear as i think i need to. Never thought i would have to post this on such a reputed
board as ATS.

Mr. Skeptic Overlord.... I find your inquiry condescending, You come across to me as a little to big for your britches. Imagine for one moment, that religion is more than superstition for millions of Americans. Does your apparent lack of religion or at least lack of respect for religion give you the right to speak down to the people of this board?

George W Bush gives me the hope I need.

Back in the Democratic primary Howard Dean had my attention but it was mostly due to his passion more than policy, I did feel he was the best Democrat. Al Sharpton offered hope, but I don't feel like his agenda would serve the masses. John Kerry was to me, phony. I was raised catholic... Kerry is Divorced and is pro choice. I find it sickening he would claim to be a good catholic in spite of his status within the church. He is being sued as a heretic. He could be thrown from the church, excommunicated....

I had conversation with a friend about this term having the possibility of appointing up to 3 supreme court justices, this could be the precursor to overturning Roe vs. Wade. I am drawn to that possibility stronger than anything in the entire election. You see, I see a parallel between Roe v Wade and the fall of American Morality. To me its plain as day. I know all the arguments about Abortion I have been through it 1000x. I stand firmly against ALL FORMS of murdering the unborn child in the womb and the petri dish. The idea that we as a nation have already squandered 45 million lives in the name of irresponsibility makes me want to cry. I cannot fathom how one can justify taking the life of someone who has never even had the discovery his or her toes, or the joy of laughter and even the love of the mother. these killings take place in the name of Money, irresponsibility, shame, greed, immaturity and many other excuses.

John Kerry had the gall to stand up in front of the nation and tell the uninformed that the ban on partial birth abortion needs a health of the mother loophole that would render the ban null and void. We are not talking about life and death of the mother.... that was in the ban... he is talking blanket health... financial health, emotional health, physical health... basically he wants to turn the would-be law into a opinion enforced issue.

Imagine a 7 month pregnant woman on the way to get an abortion... she is in a car accident and dies... the child she carried at 7 months gestation can quite easily survive. I do not see how this can remain legal. PERIOD.

On top of this form of murder, John Kerry wanted to throw billions of dollars into Embryonic Stem Cell research. As you may know... for this research to yield an actual cure to a real disease of affliction human cloning must be allowed. Do all you people remember the experiments Adolph Hitler conducted? What is really the difference? Embryonic research can only result in pursuit of the "master race" or "designer people".

My explanation. A lot of prayer went into this election.
------------------------------

Thank you Lord!

Elijio posted this:

Originally posted by Elijio
Bush is a perfect example of the average american, truth be told, most americans aren't smarter than bush. America is the most hypocritical nation ever, the constant mention of the word, "God", by americans and American presidents makes me cringe, this nation under God, best country in the world is one of the most politically corrupt, sexually perverted places on earth today...lol. Its annoying when Americans act as if this is not the case and their country wasn't founded by crooks from Europe. Of course the most ignorant,hypocritical bunch of people on this earth would vote for someone of the caliber, background, intelligence level of George W. Bush. Ijust wish most americans were as smart as
some of the members here on ATS. No, i don't hate America... just hypocrites.

Then Elijio posted this:

Originally posted by Elijio
majic? lol u seem like a child and i am currently in university, please don't attack me , i have not attacked anyone on this board only made my opinions as clear as i think i need to. Never thought i would have to post this on such a reputed
board as ATS.

You really do think we�re idiots, don�t you? I�m an American, and I don�t hate hypocrites, but I do take the time to point them out now and then.

Originally posted by Elijio
No, i don't hate America... just hypocrites.

Congratulations! You win the Ironic Statement of the Day Award.

May I suggest less abuse and more substance to make your visits more pleasant?

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by Seekerof
And 'wake-up' translate to what? Are you insinuating or asserting that 59 +/-million people are deluded, dumb, stupid, ignorant, etc.?


seekerof

That 59+/- million number is really within the margin of error. Even adding in the Dem voters, it's still inline. I would judge that 15% of America would be of great intellegence. Another 10% of very good intellegence.

Anything below 60% could fit in their nicely.

But let me ask you, do you think a good portion of the voters who voted for Bush or Kerry are blind, ignorant, or uninformed?

Gimme a break 59 million ARE 59 million, what "margin of error" are you talking about?. And YOU say those who voted for GWB are stupid?.

Originally posted by melissaissim

...make a wonder drug which will be bought by a pharacutical company and sold back to the tax payers at sky high prices.

Yeah, and Bush doesn't want those who can't afford the pharmacutical's extortion rates buying Canadian Drugs, which happen to be the same thing, but cheaper, because the "FDA doesn't approve of them"

...how is that different from abortion?

Well, if Bush calls abortion murder... and it is wrong, then what about capital punishment? Oh, yeah he supports that. Move along ladies and gentlemen, no hypocrisy to see here....

Originally posted by tomcat

How can a compassionate person force a rape or incest victim to carry to term something that she did not want or ask for. This has nothing to do with personal responsability.

Since you are an atheist, you will not understand my response or that of religious people...but here it goes. I am not religious, but I believe that life is precious, and more so when the baby growing inside is not at fault for the crime that conceived it... There are many couples who cannot have babies, and there are many of these couples that will take care of that baby you seem so willing to want dead.

The killing of that baby is not going to make the crime go away, or erase the crime from the mind of the victim...The woman that kills a fetus/baby will be traumatized in many different ways, even after the baby is gone...what these women need is help, not to kill these babies. Now, if it is known early on that the fetus is going to kill the woman, or the child if it was a child that was raped, then I would agree that a decision must be made.

Originally posted by tomcat
Why are so many conservative people against the " morning after " pill?

See above, it's pretty much the same thing.

Originally posted by tomcat
How many people here against abortion are men?

Just because we are men it doesn't mean we can't have an opinion in this. I know many women, my mother included who are against abortion, and I know that my own mother would have chosen to die herself instead of her baby girl. I am an only child on my mother's side, and even when I was born I was at risk of dying, every other child my mother tried to have, died from complications, including my 4 month old sister.

Originally posted by tomcat
2. Religion;

If the Bill of Rights state Freedom of Religion, does this also mean Freedom from Relgion?

As an Athiest I know that I can not dictate to a religous person how to feel about their beliefs, and I have no problems with school prayer or the Pledge of Allegience.

Why is it so important that a religous person has to dictate to me what I am to believe in?

If somone can answer these questions truthfully then maybe I can understand the differences that are facing this country.

Respectfully;
tomcat

When this nation was founded, it was as a "Christian nation."

I am not Christian, so I have no bias on this. I was raised as a Catholic, but I am not a Catholic either, nor am I an atheist, anyways.

Is not so much that people "want to dictate to you what they believe." It is that issues must be decided according to what the majority of the people in the US think is right.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Excerpted from.
www.archives.gov...

People can choose whatever religion they want to follow, and in the US you can see this is true, because people can choose whatever religion they want to follow. But it is also true that decisions to make legal issues such as abortion, embryonic stem-cell research etc, have to be made...and this decision must concur to what most people think is the right thing.

That's more or less my point of view on those questions you asked, but i am sure not everyone has the same opinion.

[edit on 4-11-2004 by Muaddib]

I, too, would like to know the answer to this topic question from the Bush supporters, but more specifically, I would like to ask:

How many of you have listed terrorism as a reason?

Those who answer yes, do you feel that somehow we are going to be safer with Bush as president?

If so, WHY?

And to these voters, how many of you actually live in a major metropolis?

...And experienced 911 first hand?

I am not trying to be oppositional, I just wanna see if there are any. Frankly the questions I posted are not just my own, but seem to be everyone I have encountered today's, here in my city. Morale hasn't been so low in the past 3 years, but anxiety is as high as it ever was!

Originally posted by DiabolusFireDragon
..............
Well, if Bush calls abortion murder... and it is wrong, then what about capital punishment? Oh, yeah he supports that. Move along ladies and gentlemen, no hypocrisy to see here....

There is a difference between killing a person who has murdered others, and a fetus/baby who is innocent.... If you don't see a difference, then yes, we should be moving along...

Originally posted by duh squared
I, too, would like to know the answer to this topic question from the Bush supporters, but more specifically, I would like to ask:

How many of you have listed terrorism as a reason?

Those who answer yes, do you feel that somehow we are going to be safer with Bush as president?

If so, WHY?

.........

I already gave my decision as to why I voted for Bush... Will the country be any safer by not doing anything against terrorism? Look at what Clinton did, and look at what happened, under his watch and soon after he left office...the facts speak for themselves. Clinton did not make the US any safer by ignoring terrorism and bombing some factories and mistakenly hitting some mosques in Iraq.

I prefer to confront terrorists instead of waiting for them to attack once more....

Will there be an attack in the US? it is highly possible, but it won't be Bush' fault, when there are groups of people that want to do something and they set their minds to do this, is very difficult to stop them all, but it is better to fight them and at least try to stop them, than saying "ok, we are not going after you anymore, you can come and make another 9/11 again if you want."

Did my response anwser your question?

Originally posted by Muaddib
There is a difference between killing a person who has murdered others, and a fetus/baby who is innocent.... If you don't see a difference, then yes, we should be moving along...

Is not Bush a man of faith, as he professes himself to be?
Is not Capitol Punishment killing?
Is not the sixth commandment thou shall not kill? Exodus 20:13



[edit on 11/4/2004 by DiabolusFireDragon]

Sorry, I'm as guilty as anyone here, and I shouldn't be hanging around this thread anyway, but it seems we're drifting off topic.

Things like rape and incest are all fine and good, but I am hoping that they don't directly pertain to Bush, per se. Thus I think we're going astray.

If we can stay faithful to SkepticOverlord's intent, and Elijio and I manage to avoid devolving into a flame spiral, I think good things might come from this thread.



[edit on 11/4/2004 by Majic]

Muadbid;

Thanks for your reply.

I used to be strongly pro-choice but I have had to adjust those beliefs with new evidence. With science now able to hear hearbeats at an earlier time I can concede that life begins earlier than was previosly thought. I cannot accept 3-term abortion unless the life of the mother is concerned. I do not believe that life begins at conception.

This issue of rape is personal to me. A girl I was dating was raped and I saw firsthand the trauma that she went through. Aside from the constant reminder of a rape victims attack, the mandate that they should have to carry to term is just cruel.

Aside from that, what about the finanical problems of forcing a victim to carry to term.
Is it to be her responsability to care for something not of her wanting. If it is up to the state to pay for the womb until delivery will they also pay for counseling, pre-natal, adoption fees etc.etc

The question of men dictating a womens body is a very important arguement to be made. It has in the past been a mans right to keep women as they want. This is no different than fundimental Islamic belief of female castration, honor killings and so forth.

Just because I am an Athiest does not mean I have never read the Bible or been to church. My belief ( or Lack of ) does not make me an immoral man. I try not to push my beliefs on anyone else but will not tolerate anyone doing so to me.

I could really care less about homosexuals or their lives, but to swing an important election on this issue when there are so many more important things to be worried about is just shortsided.

Originally posted by DiabolusFireDragon

Originally posted by Muaddib
There is a difference between killing a person who has murdered others, and a fetus/baby who is innocent.... If you don't see a difference, then yes, we should be moving along...

Is not Bush a man of faith, as he professes himself to be?
Is not Capitol Punishment killing?
Is not the sixth commandment thou shall not kill? Exodus 20:13



[edit on 11/4/2004 by DiabolusFireDragon]

The bible also says "an eye for an eye." Murderers were not treated as normal people even in biblical times, they were killed for their crimes too.

And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

-- Exodus 21: 23-25 (KJV)

BTW, I looked this up, I don't know it by heart.



[edit on 4-11-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
There is a difference between killing a person who has murdered others, and a fetus/baby who is innocent.... If you don't see a difference, then yes, we should be moving along...

Must agree here and love the screen name

I know in my previous post I sound like i am all over the place due to a shouted denial in regards so some earlier post... i forget which one... on this thread that said the repulicans have a chance to overturn abortion laws and the statements at the end of my post in regards to utter horror at the thought of cloning for purposes of stem cell research.... (see exert below from previous post)

I am the mother of two beautiful boys both unplanned pregnancys and also unregretted! I am not a fanatical bible thumper and yet I could never stomach the thought of abortion for myself... But I strongly support a womans right to choose. Do I think that partial abortions of children who with todays medical technology could live outside the womb? No way

Just thinking about a possible open seat coming up on the supreme court makes me catch my breath... if Bush seeks to make waves and overturn ROE V WADE it will be a major step back for womens rights. I cannot stomach a society that will pass stem cell research while neglecting cord blood research and taking away a womens utltimite right to choose.

If Bush wants a real solution to this problem then fix it with education and more free programs for family planning. Let enlighten people to the value of life everywhere. Sorry I know I got off topic totally I guess I am a bleeding heart... now I am off to start an orphanage in Brazil

Originally posted by melissaissim
To wrap it all up - given the points that all pundits are citing as the cinchers for bush... how did this cell research proposition pass?!?

IGNORANT VOTERS who read the first lines of the proposition and remember "OH Michael J Fox wants this to pass" So does the terminator so I'll say okay!

_ HOW DARE I CALL THOSE people ignorant? Well I know for a fact that it happens because my sister did it! when I went through the text of the prop and broke it all down for her (I was a speech and debate nerd) She was appalled to find out that they will be cloning human embryoes for purposes of harvesting stem cells www.news.wisc.edu...
for human research purposes. Well if you are like conservitive america and definately like anti abortion america, then you probably beleive what I do... that life begins at conception... which means you are doing medical testing on a human being. *Shudder* This is mostly upsetting to me because cord blood stem cells have proven results and yet no major proposition funding for that research...why? I can only guess that the real reason for the research is not for emphasis on stem cells but for cloning. I would actually not have as big of a problem with cloning of a human, if that human was for reproductive purposes to be loved and cared for as a regular child...but to be disected and grown into a cure for someone else...how is that different from abortion? well its closer ro cannibalisim...

[edit on 4-11-2004 by melissaissim]

[edit on 4-11-2004 by melissaissim]

Tomcat....once again...i said it is my opinion.... I didn't say I am going to force every woman t do this... Dind't I made it clear that I said, it was my opinion?

Sorry I misunderstood.

I thought that the point of this thread was the fact the election hinged on social values more than anything else.

My apologies

Late to the party again:

Some thoughts on why Bush for me?

Lets get this clear: Im a Pro Choice, Pro Death Penalty, Pro Gay Marriage, Athiest, moderate to liberal republican. Im on the fringe so to speak. However in California, its really middle of the road esp. in hte Uber Liberal Bay Area.

Why Bush?

Fiscal Policies: Yes Clinton was able to reduce the deficit, but only during the biggest boom we have ever seen. We will see the economy turn around and more tax revenue will pour into the federal coffers. Bush with his tax cuts has layed the ground work for this.

Defence: Our defences will remain strong. The Missile Shield, further R&D etc etc, all would have gone away as Kerry struggles to fund his ambitious Social Agenda.

Kerry would hav ebeen my choice from a strict environmental standpoint, but his opposoition without any real plan to nix Yucca Mt. makes no sence unless he was simply gandering votes in Nevada

Bush's health care plan is better. I speak from the front lines on this. Couple with this a reduction in liability suits....

I will add more but im off to bed.......... To be continued

Originally posted by Elijio
majic why are you still...lol...nevermind, thanks for the welcome

To those who voted for Bush:1 if you are a christian, did it influence your vote?
2 are you aware of the # of innocent Iraqis killed so far due to the war?
3 do you really think Bush is a Christian?
4 do you remember that Bush ignored info before 9/11 occurred?
5 do you remember Condoleeza Rice informed some official not to fly in the weeks before 9/11?
6 after 9/11 hapened on Bush's watch do still feel safe with him as your president?
thanks, answers will be appreciated

Elijo, the responses to your questions have been given many times before already. But here it goes again.

2. Did you know that Saddam killed, according to different human right organizations from 300,000-500,000 and some figures say it could have been as high as 1,000,0000 people? Did you know that he killed even people in Baghdag and the figure could be as high as 61,000? before the war?

Did you know the UN/US sanctions which CLinton agreed with and left in place killed 500,000-560,000 Children and around a million people in general in Iraq from malnutrition and hunger due to the sanctions?

Iraq (1990-): 350 000
International Embargo
According to the 21 March 1998 Times Union (Albany), the UN Food and Agriculture Organization estimated that 1,000,000 Iraqis, incl. 560,000 children, died as a result of malnutrition and disease caused by the international embargo imposed following the invasion of Kuwait. The article mentions the use of these numbers by an official of the United Church of Christ, and also labels the figures "commonly used -- but also disputed".
9 Oct. 2001 Slate "Explainer" acknowledges the possibility of 350,000-500,000 excess deaths among children since 1991, but points out that Saddam blames the UN and the US blames Saddam [slate.msn.com.../9/2001&idMessage=8414 or www.casi.org.uk...; it's a moving target.]
Ramsey Clark: 1,500,000 including 750,000 children [www.twf.org...]
UNICEF: 500,000 excess child deaths (under-five) 1991 to 1998 [www.unicef.org.uk.../news/iraq1.htm]
6 Aug. 1999 CNN [www.cnn.com...]
UN: 1M excess deaths
Al-Thawra newspaper: 1.5M
Project on Defense Alternatives, 20 Oct. 2003: "[T]he sanction regime probably cost the lives of 170,000 children. (Much higher estimates for 1992-1998 sanction deaths ... are based on faulty baseline statistics for prewar childhood mortality in Iraq)." [www.comw.org...]

Excerpted from.
users.erols.com...

3. I would think most people think Bush is Christian, why, you have some reliable evidence that says otherwise?....

4. Bush was in office for 8 months, Clinton was in office for 8 years and cut the funding of our military and intelligence agencies, you think in 8 months things were going to be peachy again? You also do know that the WTC was first attacked under Clinton's watch, and we were attacked in other occasions under Clinton's watch...

As to your comment on "Bush ignored info before 9/11" First, could they have though the info were just rumors?...

Second, aren't the same people that were saying this after 9/11 later on claimed that the administration is using all the threats from terrorists for their agenda?.... So what is it, you want the information to be public or not?

5. Warnings given not to fly, could be caused for many reasons, and not because Condolezza knew we were going to be attacked...this was debunked by another member althou I cant remember the specifics, but it is really naive to think that "she must have known" because of this statement.

6. I partly anwsered this above, and in other threads, but here it goes again... Yes, I think it is better to confront terrorism instead of hiding and hoping terrorist will not attack again.



[edit on 4-11-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib Now to respond the question as to why I voted for Bush, it is simple.

Again... this is not questioning your rationale for voting him... but attempting to understand the mindset of the Bush fervent supporter. A slightly different question.