3 good questions for christians/creationists

reply to post by Nightaudit

All I can say is that there is no real reason whatsoever to believe in the biblical stories like the flood or moses parting the red sea. In fact there is hard evidence to the contrary. That is why we shouldn´t see these tales as history, but as stories that are supposed to guide us.

well yes, it doesn't matter if the bible stories are believed to be true or tales. Whats important is to take the lessons from it and assimilate it into our daily actions.
To discard them as tales so as to not take the lessons too is wrong.
The worst however is to believe them as true and see the lessons yet do nothing to improve!!

Originally posted by micmerci
Not to get too far off course here but:

1. there is geological evidence of a deluge about 4000-5000 years ago
2. there are reports of chariot parts discovered at the bottom of the Red Sea (Even left-wing puppet site Snopes says "undetermined" instead of false.
3. archeological finds at site believed to be Sodom - salt pillars, brimstone embedded in rock

But these are all for another thread(s). Suffice it to say, not everything is an open and close case as your statements seem to indicate.

edit on 18-4-2013 by micmerci because: (no reason given)

1: Would you care to share a link? You would be the first to have physical evidence in favour of the flood.

2: Again, care to share a link to those reports?

3: Not sure why that matters. Surely a lot of biblical places DID exist. That does not prove that a man parted millions of tons of water by sheer will or divine intervention for example.

I honestly was trying to believe at some point in my life. But logic does not allow that anymore.

reply to post by wildtimes


Hehe I LOVED absotively!

reply to post by logical7


My hat is off to you and your insight, good Sir!

I couldn´t agree more!

reply to post by Nightaudit

I know! Right??
log7 is one of the members I have utmost respect for! He has a lot to teach us, and is quite thoughtful and intelligent.

reply to post by Nightaudit

I can actually use your Google suggestion here for your requested links. But that may frame me an arse. Honestly, I do not want to veer that far off topic. Again, suffice it to say there is evidence on both sides out there.

Also, I believe you when you say that you actually wanted to believe. And you are correct in saying that logic does not allow it. In response I will tell you Jesus' take on the matter. He said he would take the foolish things of this world and make them wise. It is not logic, it is faith. You either have it or you do not.

reply to post by wildtimes


I certainly have developed a lot of respect for you both during this discussion.

Thanks for voicing your opinion here, I honestly appreciate it!

I hope that I can return the favour someday. And if you´re ever in southern germany shoot me a pm

On a completely different note (I had a bit of wine) if you are bored and want to watch a great movie that´ll make you cry and laugh: 50/50.

You won´t regret it

reply to post by micmerci


micmerci,
I do not have anything against you, at all.
I hope you are not taking umbrage with/to the posts in this thread.
I enjoy discussing things with you, you come across as reasonable and conversational.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

We as humans have been given some authority over them but thats not without a responsibility towards their wellbeing. Especially not to hurt them unnecessarily or kill them for 'fun.'
we should show mercy to every living being if we want mercy from the All-Merciful God.

ABSOTIVELY!!
(That's a hybrid of absolutely and positively)....

I believe we are the stewards of this planet - and should treat it with the respect, nurturing and care that it deserves.
Exploitation is wrong, and cruel. Whether it's puncturing or fracturing the Earth's surface, pouring filth into her seas, allowing oil spills to contaminate her, or forcing the extinction of other species with no regard for them, or wiping out entire forests and jungles - it's all WRONG.

Without the Earth in healthy shape, we are DOOMED. It's our JOB to make sure she survives.

EXACTLY!!

And when your Lord said to the
angels, I am going to place in the earth
a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou
place in it such as shall make mischief
in it and shed blood, and we celebrate
Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not
know.

Definition for khalif: Web definitions:
1. caliph: the civil and religious leader
of a Muslim state considered to be a
representative of Allah on earth;

or stewards as you said. The meaning in the verse, of the word 'khalif' is broader and each individual is a khalif exactly as you said.

reply to post by micmerci


Sorry, but NO there isn´t. Science is not a belief system that you can describe to or not. It operates on facts.

Sediment analysis, where we find what kind of creatures, all that points directly against the flood.

There is no secret or hidden other world of facts that would support the flood.

I am sure that there are a lot websites that claim the contrary, and I am sure that they sound mighty scientific.

But it just does not add up. There is only one reality, which we all have to accept. The flood is not a part of it.

Sad but true.

reply to post by Nightaudit

I hope that I can return the favour someday. And if you´re ever in southern germany shoot me a pm

Actually, my daughter is at this moment halfway across the Atlantic en route back to Boston, her professional 'home-base'. She went to Hanover for a conference on alternative fuel initiatives as a materials science engineer,
and (totally off topic here!) my heritage is half German, and so is hers, when you combine her mom/dad ancestry.

If you'd like, please see the link in my signature and feel free to contribute your 'religious story' to the archive. It's meant as a go-to thread so that members can see how others in this forum have come to where they are. (Shameless bump, there!)
Your English is AWESOME!!

And thanks for your interactions.

reply to post by wildtimes


I was actually born in Hannover! What an ugly excuse of a city hehe.

I now live in Bavaria and run a hotel here. If you want I can shoot you the website via pm! It´s a really nice place here


PS: Thanks for the remarks about my english, I am actually quite proud of it! I think I am doing quite well considering it´s not my first language.

You should hear my german though...

JK

reply to post by Nightaudit

Christian does not equate to creationist.

In fact, I'm an evolutionary Christian mystic.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Well, that is awesome, that you´re a mystic.

I didn´t intend to "fuse" those two, and I am pretty sure that that was clear.

Apologies if I was misunderstood.

reply to post by wildtimes


Wild,

I don't think or feel like you have anything against me. No worries!
I see this as all of us looking into the vast ocean of knowledge from different points on the shores. I also take your assessment of me as being reasonable as a huge compliment! Afterall, many of my personal beliefs are fundamental leaning and I know how you feel about that bunch!

reply to post by micmerci

Afterall, many of my personal beliefs are fundamental leaning and I know how you feel about that bunch!

Only the extreme, violent, bizarre ones, who want to "bring on Armageddon", micmerci! Only those ones.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

I'm really glad you chimed in here, NAM!! (And it's not even my thread!)

You are another member that I have a great deal of respect and admiration for.

reply to post by Nightaudit

Well, she sent her professional wardrobe back with her colleagues and then took a few days to bang around Prague, Frankfurt, etc. with just a backpack. I'd love to visit there sometime! And yeah, your English is spot on, and you SHOULD be proud.

What is the 'religious' climate like over there? I hope you know that the vast majority of Americans DO NOT subscribe to the Evangelical Bible-infallibity Young Earth thing. A LOT of them do, but they are losing ground, I think.

reply to post by wildtimes


Well Wild ( do you mind me calling you that?), I do think there are many, many parallels between modern european countries and the US when it comes to most things.

In terms of religion I can tell you the following. I am now 31 years old and I have met a lot of people so far. I have never ever met a single german or european who is REALLY a christian in the sense that he or she go to church every sunday. That basically doesn´t really exist anymore.

I knew a good buddy when I was little, whose family was quite religious. But even back then in the late 80´s that was quite rare.

I have the feeling that most people here are still "officially" christian because they are to lazy to basically cancel it. And because most people like the idea of a church wedding, which has now become it´s own little thing, that has nothing to do with a belief in christ.

I have spent half a year in Boston, MA in 2007, and in my personal experience, there weren´t really any differences in terms of thinking.

I personally cannot really see any huge differences between the beliefs of a "typical" american or european.

Although I kinda don´t want to throw all of europe into one hat so to speak. But the same goes when you compare let´s say alabama to california for example.

In the end we are all people anyway.

reply to post by ElohimJD


Liked your answer but I gives me more questions. About the 144000 that have been sealed on their foreheads. Are they supposed to go somewhere to do something special or is it enough that they just ARE? And I want your view on it even if it is not in the Bible.