Another School. Another Teacher. This time it's Nazi's. I hate nazi's.

Originally posted by watcher3339
reply to post by beezzer

 

The posted example of a water tower is argument but is not specifically propaganda.
The lesson was propaganda.

The lesson is not one in propaganda, if the recipient of the letter is the main purveyor of said propaganda, i.e. a Nazi official. One doesn't develop persuasive skills by preaching to the converted -- or more to the point, regurgitating the propaganda to the Reich Minister or some lesser Nazi official.

I don't think this is as evil as everyone else. I always thought a great teaching assignment would be to list people and groups that are 'good' and 'bad'. Then write 3 'bad' things that the 'good' group did/does and then write 3 'good' things that the 'bad' group did/does.

To many people believes what ever side they are part of us good even when they are doing the same thing that the bad side is doing. Ie GITMO, drone bombings, and so on.

So where is the apology from this school?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

“I am willing to give up some of my constitutional rights in order to be safer or more secure.”

A father was shocked to find a note in his 4th grader son’s bag that indicated his teachers had instructed children at the school to accept that they should be willing to give up some Constitutional rights in order to be more safe.

Originally posted by beezzer
Funny.

So many have posted about how it was an exercise in critical thinking, yet hardly anyone is pointing out how the teacher didn't use critical thinking when designing the class project!

I think he probably put a lot of thought into it, it's just that his choices don't meet with your approval

I understand why this assignment bothers people - you'd have to be an idiot to not get that or see it coming. I can't find much information on the teacher himself - except information about him being given a leave of absence and then more about the school apologizing profusely while trying to make the case that his assignment wasn't malicious - just insensitive

It's provocative - absolutely

The writing assignment was done before a planned class reading of the memoir "Night," by Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Night is a work by Elie Wiesel

...about his experience with his father in the Nazi German concentration camps at Auschwitz and Buchenwald in 1944–1945, at the height of the Holocaust and toward the end of the Second World War. In just over 100 pages of sparse and fragmented narrative, Wiesel writes about the death of God and his own increasing disgust with humanity, reflected in the inversion of the father-child relationship as his father declines to a helpless state and Wiesel becomes his resentful teenage caregiver. "If only I could get rid of this dead weight ... Immediately I felt ashamed of myself, ashamed forever." In Night, everything is inverted, every value destroyed. "Here there are no fathers, no brothers, no friends," a Kapo tells him. "Everyone lives and dies for himself alone."[1]

Wiesel was 16 years old when Buchenwald was liberated by the United States Army in April 1945, too late for his father, who died after a beating while Wiesel lay silently on the bunk above for fear of being beaten too. Having lost his faith in God and mankind, he vowed not to speak of his experience for ten years. In 1954 he wrote an 865-page manuscript in Yiddish, published as the 245-page Un di Velt Hot Geshvign ("And the World Remained Silent") in Buenos Aires, after which the French novelist François Mauriac persuaded him to write it for a wider audience.[2]

Is asking them to read this book also insensitive?

Is an assignment that asks the students to play the roles of German citizens in an in your face, nearly firsthand, more personal way - insensitive? Or is it useful to more fully understand history, what we ordinary people are capable of doing - how we arrive at our opinions and make our choices?

"Review in your notebooks the definitions for logos, ethos, and pathos," the teacher's assignment said.

logos, ethos, pathos...

"Please remember, your life (here in Nazi Germany in the 30's) may depend on it!"

I think the teacher sounds like a very interesting person - people keep complaining about how there aren't any good teachers here in our public school system. Maybe it's because we punish the good ones

Or, maybe I'm wrong - and the guy is a closet Nazi

P.S. to MrInquisitive - I'm not a troll

:-)

While I'd rather homeschool my future kids, i would probably give them the same assignment. just so they see into the eyes of whats so cruel so they wouldnt do it or end up like them. However by using the nazis as a subject i think its pretty insensitive.

I'm sure there are NEVER any stupid assignments at a Private or Religious school, right? We have millions of kids and hundred thousands of teachers. There is no DOCTRINE to have this kind of assignment, you just had one teacher push her students to think in the shoes of people that would be very difficult for them -- if she had assigned them to take the side of the Taliban or Genghis Kahn - no problem.

We are a bit too touchy on this ONE subject, because one group has bette PR than the Armenians -- some of you don't get that reference and that's totally because of less PR, and hollywood movies on the subject.

Anyway, I just thought I'd drop by and mention the teacher lost her job -- where I'd just give her a warning to ask others if an assignment is Kosher because she may have Aspergers.

This if course, is PROOF POSITIVE of our Communist subversive brainwashing of the mommy state in Public Schools. Go ahead Libertarians and other manly men -- glean through another thousand crazy things that pop up in schools as if they didn't pop up long ago before there was an internet or mass media. You will find what you are looking for one anecdote at a time.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Good points. It's important to understand that the Nazis were "magically evil" and that nobody could ever adopt their opinion.

Then in the blogs, I read people supporting the GitMo detentions or someone who thinks Mark Rubio's immigration reform plan being more onerous than the failed policy will be a great idea. Nope. Nobody could be Nazis but Nazis.

/sarcasm

reply to post by CristobalColonic


I'm pretty sure this particular teacher would appreciate you NOT endorsing her.

While I agree that there are a lot of Jewish Bankers -- I don't blame all Jews for owning banks. Just as I don't blame all Catholics for our fascist supreme court.

You do understand that the Nazis were very, very Christian, don't you?

Surely it can be evil if any minority, or foreign people, or foreign country, takes power in any country, abusing the rights of majority. Minorities may have no more than equal rights with the majority. In any case, because, otherwise, that would be the occupation of the country.
Equal personal rights (equality of the citisens before the law), and collective minority rights, that could be best, in my opinion.

I don't see the problem here, I had to do something similar at school and I believe it gives the student a very clear insight into how propaganda works (as well as how absurd it is).

Infact, if handled the right way its FAR better than waiting till the children encounter such arguments online or in the press.

The teacher giving the assignment is bold

Except the loosers believing in aliens and magic Knows who the real "illuminati" and deceptors of this world is.
The jews.
Fact, not fiction.

Too bad people are too afraid to even discuss it.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

Then in the blogs, I read people supporting the GitMo detentions or someone who thinks Mark Rubio's immigration reform plan being more onerous than the failed policy will be a great idea. Nope. Nobody could be Nazis but Nazis.

blogs nothing - take a walk through the halls of ATS :-)

People can make anything right in their heads if it makes their world feel OK

We're all like that from time to time. I think it's a good lesson

I still think it's fascinating - some students refused, others did what they were told

Originally posted by neo96

The assignment told students ‘You must argue that Jews are evil.’ They were given five paragraphs to argue that Jews were the source of Germany’s problems.

Yeah well here is some "critical thinking".

So what if the "assignment" told students "You must argue Muslims are evil" and we given 5 paragraphs to argue that muslims were the source of America's problems.

How many people would stand for that?

Well those kids wouldn't have a hard time with that assignment, they just have to login to the ATS "I hate Israel" threads to get all the material they need.

and if the "Muslims are evil" was to be assigned the outrage would be staggering.

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Originally posted by neo96

The assignment told students ‘You must argue that Jews are evil.’ They were given five paragraphs to argue that Jews were the source of Germany’s problems.

Yeah well here is some "critical thinking".

So what if the "assignment" told students "You must argue Muslims are evil" and we given 5 paragraphs to argue that muslims were the source of America's problems.

How many people would stand for that?

Well those kids wouldn't have a hard time with that assignment, they just have to login to the ATS "I hate Israel" threads to get all the material they need.

and if the "Muslims are evil" was to be assigned the outrage would be staggering.

Not that I disagree, but the assignment covers WW2 and propaganda at the same time, so it's almost like two birds with the same stone - making it a bit more acceptable.

Given how much mileage the Jewish people as a whole have gotten out of the Nazi's treatment of them in WW2 I think it's an allowable topic - especially since, assuming the teacher was doing his job properly, it serves to highlight that it wasn't JUST the Germans who were anti Semitic - the Russians purged their Jews prior to WW2 and the British were seriously considering shipping them all off to Gibraltar at one point - and lets not even go into Henry Fords promotion of the principles of the elders of Zion.

Understanding the roots of anti-semitism is quite an important part of teaching what happened during WW2.

This is one of the more annoying things about modern conspiracy theories. anything that is said and or done by anyone that doesn't fit the understanding of a portion of people is labeled WRONG or DAMAGING etc. i think its a way of teaching the kids or students whatever you wanna call them that in all aspects of war and life people think completely opposite to yourself. i remember in school having to do an essay that asked me whether i thought Hitler and the Germans believed their attempt to gain control of the world (the War) was good or bad and why the thought it was right so basically almost a copy of the posters complaint.
in this day an age everything is starting to be labeled wrong and its one of the reasons that we as a community of thinkers are being laughed at and called nuts. so the kids were asked to think outside the normal rules, isn't that something we do on a daily basis. come on, it was just an assignment, their grade didn't depend on them attacking a group of Jews. this is just ridiculous.
and as someone else said, it can teach people to understand that not everything they are being told is the truth. just look at 911, Saddam having Nuclear Weapons, JFK and other things.

This actually isn't a bad thing. It teaches you to think from both sides and to think critically.

All the time in schools when having debates or such things, you are given a side (many of the times it isnt the side you are in favor of). This is basically the same idea.

As long as the school isn't promoting nazi'ism (if that was a word) or hate towards jews, then there shouldn't be any problem about this.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Gotta say that while this specific subject matter and position are especially distasteful I think it's worthwhile to teach kids critical thinking in this way.

Having to go through the logical steps to argue "Jews are evil" can open the mind to all the propaganda and manipulation that goes on around you.

Not all that different from asking the kids to justify invading Iraq or bombing kids with drones.

Yeah. I dont see anything wrong with it..

I did the same assignment in Eastern Canada 15 years ago.

I remember one point being Jewish children used to make fun of his art work and that really stuck with him.

reply to post by Kuroodo


Has it been determined that the actual lesson plan was on thinking critically?

Or is that just the current assumption.

If it was the reason for the lesson then it was executed poorly, leaving a lot of other assumptions open for debate.

reply to post by beezzer


I would like to think so.

I dont think someone would be as dumb as to shoot themselves in the foot career wise. Unless they wanted to on purpose. But if purposely, i would have went for a way that didnt involve media circus.