Another School. Another Teacher. This time it's Nazi's. I hate nazi's.

reply to post by beezzer


Really poorly worded (the assignment, saying to argue that Jews are evil, not your post), and definitely didn't go about it right, but I wonder if the reaction would be the same if the assignment had been to argue any other targeted group was "to blame" for what befell them. Either way, it seems this was likely executed with ill intent, though it could be possible this is a teacher who simply crossed the lines of society's feelings on this matter in order to make a point to the students that maybe there is more than one side to the story, and that not everything is black and white - that perhaps, even victimized groups can have some degree of a role in their ultimate victimization. Have the Palestinians not contributed, through actions they have taken, to their oppression and attacks from a much powerful force, however justified they may believe they are?

The Nazis were terribly misguided and evil, exterminating innocent people like rats because powerful individuals within their "demographic" were contributing to (and moreso, probably a good scapegoat for) Germany's crumbling economy.

Please don't see this as me justifying the Nazis, I absolutely don't, but I do believe the teacher could *possibly* have been trying to open the students' eyes to there being some portion of reasoning (although said reasoning ultimately taken to the point of obsessive psychosis) - essentially, to see that it wasn't necessarily just some imagined boogeyman of "The Jews" which triggered Hitler, but some actions taken, which were then used an excuse by Hitler and his fellow crazies to do (and convince the citizenry to support) the heinous things they did.

Sounds like a healthy debate class to me.

When I was in Christian school that had an official view against abortion, I had debate class, the subject was abortion, and someone had to take the pro side to pass the assignment. It's just a job, homework, it's not real and nobody has to really believe it if they don't want to.

Same idea with the Nazi/Jew debate. It's just homework. Training in politics and salesmanship. Call it acting.

I don't like Nazis either, probably because the ones I've seen have been too close to illegal activities. There are real ones out there in the USA today, and they like to hang around the south. You haven't had an interesting life until you've spotted one in the wild. They even have their own political party, even though the government probably has labeled it a terrorist organization.

Teaching critical thinking. Nothing wrong with it. I had to do a school project on the good things that pol pot did (very few, obviously). Had to do another one on how 'awesome' it was that whiteman landed here in australia. No one cared.

So touchy! get over it.

To find out whose rule over you, just figure out whom you are not allowed to criticize...Voltaire

reply to post by Liquesence


All they have to do is speak historically that the Nazis put Jews in ovens and gas showers because they were racist eugenicists and the kids will get the message. This Is nothing but the most transparently Progressive holocaust denier agenda. The kids are just getting brainwashed into holocaust denying. It's outrageous. When will the Jewish people finally see Progressivism for what it is? They still vote for it every election.

I particularly hate Illinois nazi's

reply to post by beezzer


You can be in a conservative state but the NEA is a communist tool and controls education now, and watch for Common Core/C Scope. They give tests to the kids and the teachers don't see the test results or the tests. It is out of the individual state's hands, it is federally controlled and centralized. The teachers in individual states control only about 15 % of the content. What is known is that the curriculum does not teach the Constitution and traditional American values.

Common Core

www.americanthinker.com...

Interesting.

Yeah, I'd have to say it depends on the context he was using when he gave the assignment.

Obviously if he did it as a sinister plan to try and get the kids to try and hate jews, or did it just for kicks, it would be 100% blasphemy.

But on the other hand, He may of done it to try and put them in the shoes of a Nazi, to help the kids figure out why they would carry out these astrocitices. And maybe pick a uncomfortable topic to debate over to try and boost debating skills.

But picking this type of topic probably wasn't a good idea at all. After all, the U.S. is VERY touchy when it comes to things or situations that involve a specific race, or group of people.

Yes, it's in bad taste, but I'd have to say it just boils down to what his over all intention behind it was.

Canary in the coal mine...

reply to post by beezzer


Ahhh.. how History distorts reality. Sadly I was a History major in college. You realize two things when you are. First History is written by the victorious side and can be spun however you wish. Secondly all of History is basically a conflict over dollars/gold/ natural resources. I am no fan of Nazi Germany however the History is interesting. Nazi Germany was born out of the ashes of WW1 and the price Germany was forced to accept to end the Great War. You can debate and debate but the peace terms were very harsh perhaps as they should have been. In hindsight it looks like a mistake now. Here is my point... Germans killed 6 million Jews before and during the war... We are all taught this going way back to 2nd or 3rd grade. What is not taught is that the Russians under Stalin killed 20 million of its own people. I have always wondered why Germans are vilified for this bit Russia which killed 3x as many people has gotten a free pass. What is also curious to me is how a nation can sit back and overlook these things as they are happening. Since 2001 in both Afganistan and Iraq there has been anywhere from 750,000 to 1.3 million dead Civilains. There is no outrage about this. None.. To me it speaks to the power of propaganda and how easily we can be manipulated.

By the way..poor choice for an assignment. As someone said on page 1 critical thinking can be taught in other ways.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Having to go through the logical steps to argue "Jews are evil" can open the mind to all the propaganda and manipulation that goes on around you.

It can also make you start to think an entire people group is evil. There are better ways to teach critical thinking. In my high school, we even had a critical thinking class. The problem is, in high school, virtually no one cares. Kids will have to be taught in the home that critical thinking is important, not in the schools.

reply to post by beezzer

I said this in the other thread (by burntheships) on this topic:

Originally posted by ColCurious
reply to post by burntheships

 

We're having similar "thought-experiments" in our schools here in Germany (at least I had a similar assignment back in my advanced history class).

While Germany has arguably the most vigorous and strict laws against Nazism (and rightly so), we still believe that in order to prevent history from repeating, one has to understand the underlying causes, motifs and historical context.

If this assignment was a lesson in critical thinking then I find nothing wrong with it.

reply to post by beezzer


I see absolutely nothing wrong with the assignment. They aren't teaching the kids to hate, they're teaching kids about how people can use fear, strife, and illogical belief to further their own agenda. They're teaching kids about how an entire ethnicity can be used as a scapegoat. THEY AREN'T TELLING KIDS IT'S OKAY TO BE A NAZI, NOR ARE THEY TEACHING THEM IT'S OKAY TO BE PREJUDICE. THEY'RE TEACHING THEM ABOUT A DISGUSTING TRAVESTY THAT HAPPENED LESS THAN A CENTURY AGO THAT WE HAVE TO #ING CONFRONT, NOT JUST FORGET ABOUT.

This P.C. bull# has gone too far. What, are we not supposed to teach our kids about WWII? Or Nazi Germany? I guess we just have to be really gentle when we talk about it, to ensure everyone feels comfortable discussing a mass genocide? Reality #ing happens. We're hurting kids when we can't educate them about events that really happened, or when we limit our creativity when teaching the subject for the sake of comfort.

Teaching kids this everything-is-always-happy never-think-about-bad-things worldview BS is a testament to America's growing stupidity. This teacher shouldn't have to apologize. He should be rewarded for his creativity and dedication of education.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Gotta say that while this specific subject matter and position are especially distasteful I think it's worthwhile to teach kids critical thinking in this way.

Exactly ...

And the fact, that it failed, shows beyond doubt ... that people are incapable of critical thinking. Therefore there is no guarantee for what people think or believe, is true.

And that fact, is far more distasteful than the nazis ...

If the population of the US can justify murdering over a million people, because of the loss of 5000 people ... and leaving the world in chaos, disorder and children being born ... disfigured beyond recognition.

Then they should seriously not have a problem with the Nazis wanting to murder an entire race, of the loss of several million people ...

And if the US can justify, making the Muslims a scape goat and have them being the evil of all terrorism in the world today.

Then they should seriously have no problem with the Nazis making Jews as scapegoats.

Unless the crime is only "who" did it, and to "whome". Not the act itself ...

reply to post by beezzer


Yep, a purdee nutty/messed-up and *potentially offensive* writing assignment. Besides the offensive/insensitive aspect of it, the notion of writing a persuasive letter to a Nazi official, decrying Jews, seems about as difficult an assignment and as good an exercise in developing critical thinking and persuasion skills as writing an open letter to the squatters in a crack house or shooting gallery, touting the live-for-today lifestyle and the legalization of all recreational drugs.

There are so many topics a teacher could choose for such an exercise, one must really question his/her intent with this one.

Mind you, I came down on the side of the teachers who allowed students to come up with their own math story/word problems that involved slavery, as they were studying a unit on slavery in social studies at the time. Such an exercise could lead to more comprehension of the subject. A racist screed against a targeted ethnic group, written to the main oppressor of said ethnic group: not so much. It just seems like an exercise in nurturing racial hate/contempt. The teacher really should be canned. There are unemployed teachers out there who can do at least as good as a job, and have a lot more sense and/or lack the possible sinister streak of this one.

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by beezzer

 

Yep, a purdee nutty/messed-up and *potentially offensive* writing assignment. Besides the offensive/insensitive aspect of it, the notion of writing a persuasive letter to a Nazi official, decrying Jews, seems about as difficult an assignment and as good an exercise in developing critical thinking and persuasion skills as writing an open letter to the squatters in a crack house or shooting gallery, touting the live-for-today lifestyle and the legalization of all recreational drugs.

In what way do those two ideas seem comparable, exactly?

You don't see how an assignment related to the holocaust being *potentially offensive* is appropriate? Why don't we just not mention race at all when teaching kids about WWII? I mean, we could just say the Nazis killed "people whom they found disagreeable or undesirable." Then we could avoid anyone being potentially offended forever! Oh, except that's extremely offensive to Jewish people.

Is bliss ignorance really preferable to confronting reality? "Never Again" only works if we don't act like spineless overly-P.C. overly-sensative people with no sense of responsibility or common sense.

Seems like he might be just trying to teach them how to debate. One thing teachers will do is get you to argue for a subject that you don't believe is true. Skills like this will help if you want to become a lawyer.

This doesn't mean the teacher is a Nazi. It is much harder to try and argue why this is true than why Hitler was evil.

Oh this is so terrible, can you imagine having to do such an assignment ? First you would have to discern who were in charge of European country's so you would examine who was in charge of the media, who was in charge of the banks, who was in charge of the big pharmaceutical company's and who was in charge of immigration policy into your country...once you discovered that all these things were being controlled by Zionist Jews then you would have to make the only logical conclusion that any reasonable person would make, that they have absolutely nothing to do with the problems in your country

Funny.

So many have posted about how it was an exercise in critical thinking, yet hardly anyone is pointing out how the teacher didn't use critical thinking when designing the class project!

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by beezzer

 

Yep, a purdee nutty/messed-up and *potentially offensive* writing assignment. Besides the offensive/insensitive aspect of it, the notion of writing a persuasive letter to a Nazi official, decrying Jews, seems about as difficult an assignment and as good an exercise in developing critical thinking and persuasion skills as writing an open letter to the squatters in a crack house or shooting gallery, touting the live-for-today lifestyle and the legalization of all recreational drugs.

In what way do those two ideas seem comparable, exactly?

You don't see how an assignment related to the holocaust being *potentially offensive* is appropriate? Why don't we just not mention race at all when teaching kids about WWII? I mean, we could just say the Nazis killed "people whom they found disagreeable or undesirable." Then we could avoid anyone being potentially offended forever! Oh, except that's extremely offensive to Jewish people.

Is bliss ignorance really preferable to confronting reality? "Never Again" only works if we don't act like spineless overly-P.C. overly-sensative people with no sense of responsibility or common sense.

edit on 14-4-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

How is writing a letter condemning Jews -- or Roma or Slavs or mentally ill or retarded* (see footnote) or handicapped -- to a NAZI official in anyway going to be a good exercise in persuasive writing? It's preaching to the choir. Good persuasive writing exercises involve writing to a potential reader who is either neutral (at best) or against your POV. Moreover, in the exercise at hand, you are asking students to write a letter with a repugnant thesis. How is role playing a racist a good exercise? Heck, why not instruct kids to write creative-writing stories from the point of view of serial killers?

I have no problems teaching kids how race -- or politics for that matter -- played-out in WWII. I wouldn't be against reasonably worded story problems involving concentration-camp math either -- if they were given in the context of studying the topic at the same time, and had some real learning value. In other words, gratuitous math problems involving Holocaust fun facts are inappropriate, but word problems meant for students to better internalize/understand the level of horror and inhumanity may well serve some function.

I see very little value and a whole lot of repugnance and dis-service in asking students to role play Jew (or other ethnic group)-hating Germans. I really see no educational benefit to this whatsoever -- or anything else remotely positive coming out of it. Furthermore, I see such an exercise as encouraging any nascent skin heads in the class. Similarly, I wouldn't see a writing exercise in which students would pretend to be 19th-century settlers writing a persuasive letter to their Congressman or the President, requesting further eradication of Native Americans or the rounding them up and putting them on reservations. Call me PC if you must.

I find this post of yours -- as well as a few others I have seen -- to often be either über contrarian or out-n-out trollish. Perhaps you are being earnest in your beliefs, but they seem extreme and way-out to me, and I am not of the conservative reactionary ATS tribe.



*nb: using the term that would have been used back then -- no one was using "special needs" in 1939.