Maryland Rain Tax (Yes, a rain tax)

Originally posted by minor007
reply to post by ProfessorChaos

 

Sorry I am confused. So you prefer to do nothing to combat the nitrogen going into the sea? So its ok for wildlife to suffer because you cant be bothered to turn your concrete lawn into a more porous one

No. I think you have certainly missed my point. Firstly, it is the government setting these limits, that does not in any way mean that by following those limits, that things will improve ecologically.

Secondly, with the government setting these limits, why are they not being held responsible for meeting them as well?

Thirdly, how is imposing YET another tax on the average property owning citizen going to help anything in the current economic climate? Not only will this tax add to the already ridiculous financial burden that the American tax payer has to carry, it will add to the improbability of the country recovering economically. (I.E. people who are constantly having taxes added to their yearly costs, are less and less able to participate in the marketplace. THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO MAKE PURCHASES, which is how an economy improves.)

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos

Originally posted by minor007
reply to post by ProfessorChaos

 

Sorry I am confused. So you prefer to do nothing to combat the nitrogen going into the sea? So its ok for wildlife to suffer because you cant be bothered to turn your concrete lawn into a more porous one

No. I think you have certainly missed my point. Firstly, it is the government setting these limits, that does not in any way mean that by following those limits, that things will improve ecologically.

Secondly, with the government setting these limits, why are they not being held responsible for meeting them as well?

Thirdly, how is imposing YET another tax on the average property owning citizen going to help anything in the current economic climate? Not only will this tax add to the already ridiculous financial burden that the American tax payer has to carry, it will add to the improbability of the country recovering economically. (I.E. people who are constantly having taxes added to their yearly costs, are less and less able to participate in the marketplace. THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO MAKE PURCHASES, which is how an economy improves.)

1st off the limits is actually done by scientists who then give the report to the government to act on.
I agree with what you are saying regarding the government being exempt. That however is down to the people to sort out with their local Government. All you have to do is pay someone to lobby on the peoples behalf but wouldnt that cost more than for someone to undo their concrete lawn?
thirdly It dosent cost that much to buy a pick axe.

reply to post by minor007


You are still apparently of the mindset that it is better to just accept giving the money to the government (who will spend it on most likely everything except for the problem), rather than the people forcing the government to drop the foolish law altogether. This is not a means to pay for a problem, it is a cash grab and nothing more.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


???? what on earth are you on about? If you dont want to pay the tax then dont have a concrete lawn THAT is what I am saying. Simple
If you cant be bothered to buy a pick axe to dig up that concrete then pay the tax.

Ultimately this is all about nitrogen and phosphorous run off which probably has more to do with agriculture than anything else. Large areas of Eastern Maryland are farmlands believe it or not. About the only way homeowners are compounding the problem is by over fertilizing their yards and washing their cars too often.
Once again it's a matter of balancing the budget on the backs of someone other than those responsible for the problem (like how everyone is paying and will continue to be paying for the indiscretions and outright crimes of the big banks).

This also provides a excuse for drone overflights as it's a handy way to implement the tax.

Wow,.
rain tax huh..

Well even though it is a real bummer,. you Marylanders will
still pay it cause i will bet no one will have the kajones to do anything
about it like start a petition to have your officials outted,
you will most likely just surrender,. just like the gun grab that is enveloping
this country. a slow choke hold.. then its over,. and on to governmental slavery

This is OUR governments way of the "Cyprus Grab" to your money.. taxing
and with the current administration,. it will become the norm

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Ultimately this is all about nitrogen and phosphorous run off which probably has more to do with agriculture than anything else. Large areas of Eastern Maryland are farmlands believe it or not. About the only way homeowners are compounding the problem is by over fertilizing their yards and washing their cars too often.
Once again it's a matter of balancing the budget on the backs of someone other than those responsible for the problem (like how everyone is paying and will continue to be paying for the indiscretions and outright crimes of the big banks).

This also provides a excuse for drone overflights as it's a handy way to implement the tax.

edit on 13-4-2013 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)

^This.

I am not a resident of Maryland, but the government of the state that I live in is just as liberal, if not more so. If this stands, I'm sure it is only a matter of time before my state decides that a rain tax is a wonderful method for obtaining yet more money from its populace.

Whats left Maybe Taxing the Air we Breath, Probably Next. Ah Well ......

In what way is "taxing" the runoff a solution?

1. Taxing all homeowners presumes that all homeowners contribute by having massive amounts of the chemicals in question. They do not.

2. It would seem the tax goes UP over time, not down, so resolving the problem is not what the money is for as a time limit would be included if the issue was to be resolved via money.

3. The tax effects all people who own, even those who in no way contribute - say a house that collects rain water and has no concrete etc. So the tax again, is not about the run off.

4. The "government" knows who is causing the problem, how does taxing people who are NOT causing the problem address the issues cause by those causing the problem? Case in point, my neighbor is a drug dealer, the cops know, does it make sense to tax me a fee for "city drug dealer remedy act" or make more sense to just arrest him?

5. There is a HUGE problem with property assessments that are vindictive in nature. Here folks are simply being taxed because the own a home, the answer to the problem of the tax is to sell the home - makes sense. Only vidictive taxes will lead to sales, lower property taxes and so on.

6. When was it written, and where exactly, that taxing people to punish their actions is the law. Where is it written, tell me where, that fining people when they do wrong fixes things, and if this is written down somewhere, is the opposite written as well - giving people money when the do right? To accept "tax my behavior to make me do right" is to fully and completely accept enslavement as your only way to live - slaves on plantations were treated this way: taxed for bad behavior, and, good behavior was rewarded by not adding another tax.

7. There is a limit, a limit to what people have. There is a FIXED amount of money in circulation - this is by definition, and no amount of taxing is going to increase that amount. Again, there is a fix amount of fiat currency circulating, the creation of said currency comes via debt based printing, and the nature of compound interest dictates a uneven equation - there will never be enough money to pay the interest, as it was never created. What this means is, you take from one and give to another, the one you took from is short, now if you take from him again, he is short again, until he has nothing. This is because he is a slave, and a slave cannot print money - only governments can, and the slave has to go take money from another slave to pay his tax and his debts - both payments going to the same place in the end. Governments know this, they seek to enslave, not help, so tax is an enslavement process.

When ever you see a proposed tax, ask yourself: I know I need my behavior altered, the government wants me to alter my antisocial behavior (in this case runoff criminal) and will this new tax cause me to alter it enough and in the right way, or do I personally need a more expensive tax?

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


This is one subject that makes my blood boil. How do we allow our politicians to continue to tax us to death? When you buy a new car your taxed, than when you sell it, it gets taxed again!! They already received a tax on the entire cost of the car when it was new!!! It's the same thing with a house!! Don't even get me started with property taxes.

You can't even die in peace without the government coming in and taxing what you saved your entire life that was already taxed!! Your taxed over and over again on the same amount that was taxed the previous year!!! They even take money out of your kids inheritance after you die!!! When you owe the government money, they want it ASAP, and if you don't get it to them on time they charge you interest! When they owe you money, you're at their mercy.

Our tax code is the most ridiculous and confusing BS we have to face every year. When tax forms are made so complicated that people have to pay someone to do it, it's clearly a con job by the government to squeeze as much money out of people who are not knowledgeable about the tax code. The average hard working american can't even take advantage of the type of loop holes corporations or the rich have available to them. There's something wrong with the system when you have to hire someone to prevent the government from picking your pocket. To me, the majority of taxes is legalized robbery, and the government sets the game rules!

We have to let our government know our entire financial business, yet our tax dollars are going to pay for black projects, and other secret programs that the public has no business knowing. I don't like the idea that my money is buying things that I know nothing about. Sure I know some black projects should be kept secret, but what about all the investigations the government has done on 9/11, the JFK assassination, etc... that is hidden away from taxpayers? As taxpayers who are paying for these investigations, we have every right to demand full disclosure of these investigations.

TAXES, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

reply to post by Pelvi


Did you even bother to read the linked article? This is a state/local tax. I guess you adhere to the new "Southern Strategy" tactic that says you can no longer scream "ni66er! ni66er! ni66er" so instead you scream "Obama tax!"

Nitrogen levels?

The air we breathe is 78% nitrogen!

Kinda like Carbon tax....The most abundant element in the Universe.

Looks like some American politicians are looking at their Great White North counterparts for ideas on raping citizens.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


I believe that almost every state is going to be working on this bill to pass. This will bring in more money for them but would this make us not want the rainfall? That is my spiritual concern. Many indiginous cultures would conduct dance rituals for the coming of the rain, but we may be wanting less of it, how spoiled we are!

If people dont start growing a backbone and confront their governments head on about these stupid taxes, by the time your grand children are grown up they will be paying 100% tax on what they earn....they will be slaves, much like us but without the benefits we enjoy from our overlords.


We had window tax in England...yup, if you wanted natural daylight in your house you had to pay a tax, thats why a lot of old building have windows bricked up. They replaced it with a load of others so nowadays we dont have to pay to have daylight in our homes.

Road tax...now Vehicle Excise Duty used to pay for roads, now it pays for war....and second homes for MP's.
So are roads are diabolical, and VED goes up every year. People still think it pays for the roads hence they dont mind paying it.

We are being screwed royaly and its only getting worse.

Forced taxation is slavery

Living in Maryland, I can actually give a bit of commentary about this.

The biggest problem that the state is having is water run-off hitting the streams, rivers and tributaries that wash into the Chesapeake. That being said, the state has come up with a brilliant idea. They require most major highways to build a holding reservoir at some point along the road to catch the water that drains from the pavement so it doesn't wash into the many of the various creeks, swamps and water feeders that move into the bay. It's a decent concept, except for the fact that the state is flat broke.

The money that the state pulls in via the various toll plazas, mainly the two tunnels in Baltimore, and the I-95 and Rt 40 bridges between the Harford/Cecil counties lines are supposed to go into the State Highway fund. Every year during the Thanksgiving travel rush, the local MSM news sources go on non-stop about how much, in the millions of dollars, worth of revenue that the tolls bring in during the 'Busiest Travel Weekend' of the year, not including Memorial day when everyone heads to the beaches on the Delmarva.

The problem with that is the state has a horrible spending issue, and what's supposed to be put aside for the State Highway Administration is raided, so these cistern building projects are unfunded. Next, they decide that a small portion of the state, and I'd assume EPA mandatory emissions fee goes to fund the bay preservation as well. Not a bad idea when it's on paper, but again, that fund is raided as well.

Next, we also have a special license plate; 'Save the Bay', which the majority of the cost of that vehicle tag is considered a donation to the Bay Fund as well. And since most people when they register their vehicles don't get a new tag, it's pretty much a one time donation. Not sure how much of the re-registration fee goes into this fund every 3 years (which I'll know come July when I have to register my vehicle again) I'm sure I'll find out then how much of that exactly goes into that same coffer box.

Now, onto the whole rain tax thing. In my county, we actually pay that tax twice, and once July hits, it looks like we'll be paying that tax in triplicate. First, it comes in the water bill every three months. Residents of the city pay a 5 dollar a month water service charge to the town for Bay preservation. Second tax is to the county. And starting in July, we'll also be paying it to the state.

What the state wants to do, is take this money and use it to build and maintain these cisterns along the highways to prevent this run-off from entering the watershed. Water goes in, and then the sediments end up collecting, get dense and sink to the bottom of the pool. Issue is, once they're built, if it's on public land, it's up to the tax payer to maintain said collection pools. If it's on a private piece of land, like a development or private community, the state or county is firm in their belief that it's up to that community, usually a homeowners association to handle the maintenance. Most of these though are aging. Plenty have collapsed and have had the entire collection wash over the roads, or their own embankments into the streams and then further on into the feeders for the bay.

Here is the big problem though. By all estimates, if the state were to collect this money and actually use it for true purpose, they could build, fix and maintain every one of these pools within a very short amount of time. What happens after it's done? The big fear is that it will become another play fund, just like the toll collection. With a supposed 12 cent gas tax increase coming(which also is supposed to go into maintaining roads and the cisterns that accompany them) plus another push to increase sales tax, they are breaking the pocketbooks of their residents.

Another pointed issue is that they claim that the tax will be fairly distributed among the citizens of the state, yet there are certain counties that will end up paying far less than others. We're talking hundred dollar gap between some of these counties.

In summary, Annapolis thinks they know what they're doing, but in reality they are just grinding their constituents to the point of breaking and turning around and pocketing the cash that's brought in. It's going to be the same song and dance as when the casinos lobbied the state for gambling rights. A promise that a huge cut would go to education, yet they've failed to deliver on any of their word.

A rain tax would fix the issue in the short run, then the coffer will be plundered like every other fund once the project has been completed, or never completed in the first place and yet another tax will be substituted because 'Oh no, the rain tax didn't work.'

-Kay

If that was here, and they did that, I'd consider anyone paying committing treason and selling out their children's fauture, so massive child abuse. Send the bills back when they arrive. Of course it will take numbers, one or two isn't enough. But I still wouldn't pay it.

The real pisser here?
The average citizen has a lot thats about 60 ft x120 ft.....
With the house sidewalks etc its not a lot of sq feet.....
Compared to the ACRES and ACRES of parking lots, paved parks, and squares etc.. that the goverment has.....
Never mind the MILITARY
The airports the factories etc...all that paved and built over land.....
Those are the culprits not some lil householders....

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Ultimately this is all about nitrogen and phosphorous run off which probably has more to do with agriculture than anything else. Large areas of Eastern Maryland are farmlands believe it or not. About the only way homeowners are compounding the problem is by over fertilizing their yards and washing their cars too often.
Once again it's a matter of balancing the budget on the backs of someone other than those responsible for the problem (like how everyone is paying and will continue to be paying for the indiscretions and outright crimes of the big banks).

This also provides a excuse for drone overflights as it's a handy way to implement the tax.

edit on 13-4-2013 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)

Thats exactly right.
They should be fining the people who are dumping the most nitrogen and phosphorus into the bay, but they won`t do that because the people who are dumping most of it are large corporations and farms. I`m sure those people have lobbyist to keep cover their butts.
Another big problem is that a lot of the pollution is coming from out of state and is being deposited into the bay via the Susquehanna river which dumps all the pollution from new jersy and pennsylvania into the bay.

The law says that only residents in 10 counties will have to pay the rain tax while the rest of the state pays nothing.How can they possible meet the government mandate by requiring only 10 counties to meet the mandate? It sounds like they have no intention of meeting the mandate they are just trying to raise money to pay the fine that the federal government will levy against them for not meeting the mandate.
Maryland is a horrible state, it is like the 4th or 5th smallest state in the country but it ranks near the top of the list for taxation of it`s citizens. Why would such a small state need all that tax money? and what are they doing with all that tax money?

There is no doubt that the bay is dying but this rain tax will do nothing to help save it.

This calls for a bit of good old Tim Hawkins music:

the government itself is immune to this tax

lol of course they are immune, who would they pay it to... themselves?