Yet more uk employment/slavery corruption.

Originally posted by TheBlackHat
Look, it's the people who allow themselves to be exploited, who are at fault. Lets just get it straight. When i was finishing school at 16, that's a long time ago...they had something called "work experience"..or what most people would call unpaid slave labor. Well I was considered to be very talented at art (the best in the school in fact), but because the teachers favored some other kid, from a more middle class background, he got to do his work experience with a design firm..now that would be genuinely considered a worth while thing to do, because it could benefit a person in a future career, so you can honestly call that work experience..but they sent me off to stack shelves in...you guessed it...TESCO. I was told by my school if I didn't do it Id get in big trouble..so i turned up the first day, looked at the shop front, and just got straight on the very next bus. I just could not bring myself to be exploited like that, and that was a long time ago. 20 years ago. So Briton taking the p155 out of people is nothing new...whats disappointing is the fact so many allow themselves to have it done to them.

edit on 12-4-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)

I am not of the Realm, so I do not some of the colourful language of the UK. So tell me, what is a 'p155'? I had taken to the idea of calling citizens of Britain, "British abjects". I mean no ridicule as I felt it was more compassionate to call a thing accurately and truthfully for what it is, though to be a "subject" seems to mean one is helpless to what one is subjected to. (Not much of an improvement.) In America, we are not citizens, but consumers, which seems to have an evil portent to it as rats, locusts and TB also consume. I wonder when they'll tire of our consumption, and then have at us with some extermination. Better a slave than a pest perhaps. I hope y'all rebel like Icelanders.

reply to post by artfuldodger


p155 = pee or pi-ss

Here in the US 10 years ago there were similar things going on. A huge, used to be local company, now owened by conglomo, got tax breaks for hiring 400 people. They got other incentives for hiring unemployed/dissabled people. Also got permission to build a huge water bottleing plant in a wildlife sanctuary.The plant sits on top of a huge glacial lake. The people in town were assured the water would be trucked in. Now the locals have had to drill deeper wells as the water levels have dropped. Of course that is just coincidence. I had a good job at the time but applied anyway as the pay was better. Lucky for me I knew the human resource person who did the interview and was told only one hundred of the four hundred hired would be permanent. Even though the deal was 400. They were looking for grunts to do the heavy lifting. People who were unemployed/dissabled were kept on as the tax breaks increased profit. All of the management positions were filled by people who were moved in from out of state. The state also had to widen the road for about 10 miles because it was unsafe for all the new truck traffic. This all seems to be coming from the same playbook. Screw the people with the help of polititians. Then complain about the unemployed needing assistance and the coffers being empty.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
Cameron is not a Elected prime minister as you well know and though we had enough of Brown he actually garnered more vote's than Cameron in the national election's

That is just a bare faced lie! The Tories got 10,703,654 votes while Labour managed just 8,606,517 with the Lib Dems getting 6,836,248. So, in effect, the coalition actually garnered twice as many votes in total than labour managed.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
It seems as the parable say's you will know them by there fruit (work's) that knowing unless they rig the election as indeed the tory party has in the past

Again, a lie. It isn't possible to rig an election in the UK - do you not think at the slightest hint of an irregularity, the "losers" would kick up a stink? Not to mention the independent Electoral commission and international observers who are present....

Originally posted by LABTECH767
A growing favourite term for Cameron is he want's to make work pay but what does he mean?,.
Under the thatcher government of the 1980's we saw a drastic change to law that a Real Labour government had brought in many term's previously and that was that wage's had to rise in line with inflation ...blah blah blah...

You really should punctuate properly, it's hard on the eyes..

Anyhoo, do you know that in the late 70's and 80's, inflation was rampant owing to the dire economic mess left by the previous Labour Government? From when Thatcher gained office to when she left, the economy grew by 30% and unemployment actually fell from a high of 18% down to just under 8%. Considering the crappy state she inherited and the fact that without reform we would have been bankrupt, that is a remarkable turnaround, but most lefties like to ignore this and focus on the "poor miners".....

Originally posted by LABTECH767
Remember the bullingdon club initiation that Cameron and Clegg went through it was intended to show that they were inhumane enough to the poor to be one of the then disempowered establishment (burning a £50 note under a down and out's nose while taunting the poor soul and beating them up if they tried anything).

So? Who among us can say we never did anything stupid or insensitive when younger?

Originally posted by LABTECH767
these people are criminal's on the order of Hitler but we can do nothing on our own, only PEACEFULL public gathering's of the type Margaret thatcher outlawed and that were the basis of British ethical socialism have a chance of changing anything.

Oh please, Hitler? Now I know you're talking out of your Arris... Maggie never did such a thing either.

That said, I do wholeheartedly agree that we need to radically alter our Political establishment, but lets base it on facts and sensible thought, not outright rubbish and needless emotional claptrap.

As for the topic at hand, I am not totally convinced this workplace scheme is working as intended. I am positive, however, it was thought out in good faith, but as with most things it gets abused by some and it makes headlines.

However, I do feel that those long-term unemployed (say 12+ months?) should then be put to work in a civic capacity in return for continued benefits - say joining work gangs to fill potholes, or pick up litter etc.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
The soil of these land's is the sweat, the blood, the tear's, the toil and ashes of MY ancestors and they PAID in blood as worker's, soldier's and LORD's (that's right I am descended from hereditary peer's - My mother is a duchess whom was robbed of Aintree property's left to her by the Tattershall's (she is a Hallworth)),.

An impressive claim, but one I find tricky to believe. Aintree lies within the historic boundaries of the Duchy of Lancaster - what is your mother supposedly Duchess of?

EDIT: Also, the only reference to the Tattershall family I can find is in relation to Holme Hall, but if that is the correct family and title you allude to, it certainly wasn't a Duchy...

reply to post by VoidHawk


Good try but most of the people on this earth that are able to think for themselves have given there brains over to the government

Originally posted by TheBlackHat
Look, it's the people who allow themselves to be exploited, who are at fault. Lets just get it straight. When i was finishing school at 16, that's a long time ago...they had something called "work experience"..or what most people would call unpaid slave labor. Well I was considered to be very talented at art (the best in the school in fact), but because the teachers favored some other kid, from a more middle class background, he got to do his work experience with a design firm..now that would be genuinely considered a worth while thing to do, because it could benefit a person in a future career, so you can honestly call that work experience..but they sent me off to stack shelves in...you guessed it...TESCO. I was told by my school if I didn't do it Id get in big trouble..so i turned up the first day, looked at the shop front, and just got straight on the very next bus. I just could not bring myself to be exploited like that, and that was a long time ago. 20 years ago. So Briton taking the p155 out of people is nothing new...whats disappointing is the fact so many allow themselves to have it done to them.

edit on 12-4-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)

I remember doing work experience on a farm lol
I am still friends with them today They were decent, because they wasnt a big firm, just normal people. They gave me a weekend job, i got £20 a day back in 1995 and i loved going there.

When i was told what i was going to be doing, initially i wasnt very happy...my friends all got placements in banks and shops, i was pretty jealous until afterwards when i was told none of them got paid, and none of them got a weekend job.

The skills i learned on the farm over 5 years, the friendships i made were all a bonus. Many were exploited.

They bought me my first car when i turned 17!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahhhh memories, id totally forgot about the work experience

Originally posted by stumason
However, I do feel that those long-term unemployed (say 12+ months?) should then be put to work in a civic capacity in return for continued benefits - say joining work gangs to fill potholes, or pick up litter etc.

If those things need doing then there should be proper employment for those sent to fill the holes wouldn't you think?

As for those unemployed for "12+ months". Please explain where the MILLIONS of unemployed will find work?
As stated in the OP, 400 sent for what amounted to three and a half full time jobs.
Lets assume this were to happen once per week for a whole year.
That would employ just 182 of those four hundred. And we can be certain this would NOT be a weekly event.

This place has a motto of Deny ignorance, yet 90% of those in threads that concern employment totally ignore the fact that there is not enough jobs. Usually they come out with the same old claptrap "If you want work you've only got to look for it".

Even though you seem an educated sensible individual, I do not agree with you.

Originally posted by stumason
As for the topic at hand, I am not totally convinced this workplace scheme is working as intended. I am positive, however, it was thought out in good faith, but as with most things it gets abused by some and it makes headlines.

However, I do feel that those long-term unemployed (say 12+ months?) should then be put to work in a civic capacity in return for continued benefits - say joining work gangs to fill potholes, or pick up litter etc.

Our taxes are supposed to contribute towards the infrastructure of the country, road tax was replaced with Vehicle Excise Duty so they didnt have to use the billions motorists pay each year for roads, instead its wasted on wars and put in the back pocket of mp's through expenses. Was it Ian Duncan Smith who claimed £900k in expenses last year???

Jobs are few and far between, for every job opening there are probably 100 people applying. They know people are desperate, and use this to their advantage.

What you are suggesting is slavery, working for nothing for the benefit of a few wealthy corporations.

Until there is a revolution things will only get worse. You may find yourself one day in the position of millions of others, and i highly doubt you would want to be told to get up at 5am and work until 9pm or lose your crappy benefits.


VoidHawk....add me as a friend I have no idea how to do it lol

reply to post by MyLifeRocks


What rules? The rules that you lobby to change in your favor? The rules that allow you to kill the f***ing planet to turn a profit? The rules that have kept minimum wage the same for the last few decades, paying workers ~$8.00 per hour while the price of everything has skyrocketed due to inflation? Those rules? Those rules are a crock of s***.

Originally posted by AmberLeaf
Our taxes are supposed to contribute towards the infrastructure of the country, road tax was replaced with Vehicle Excise Duty so they didnt have to use the billions motorists pay each year for roads, instead its wasted on wars and put in the back pocket of mp's through expenses.

There never was a Road Tax, it's always been Vehicle Excise duty since 1920 and it stopped being ring fenced for roads in 1927. That said, local roads are the responsibility of Local Authorities, not central Government and these are the ones in a piss poor state.

Originally posted by AmberLeaf
Was it Ian Duncan Smith who claimed £900k in expenses last year???

Er, no.. IDS claimed £83k last year, of which £53k were staffing costs. These facts are simple and verifiable.

Originally posted by AmberLeaf
Jobs are few and far between, for every job opening there are probably 100 people applying. They know people are desperate, and use this to their advantage.

Really? Because I am actually job hunting for my missus and, for the most part, positions are getting between 10-30 applicants. And yes, there are plenty of real jobs out there.

Originally posted by AmberLeaf
What you are suggesting is slavery, working for nothing for the benefit of a few wealthy corporations.

No, it isn't. Someone who is unemployed is in receipt of JSA, HB and several other benefits up to a value of £26k a year. Is it not fair to ask, if they are long-term unemployed, they do something in return for that? I would do it myself, if I was in such a position.

Originally posted by AmberLeaf
You may find yourself one day in the position of millions of others,

Already have - in fact I've done my time as an unemployed and a homeless - You know what I did? Got up every day off my mates sofa and went looking for work, wherever it could be found, sometimes not coming back until the evening after a day of going round the agencies, using the Library etc. Guess what? I found work! I will also say that during that time, I did not claim a single penny from the state. It adds an extra "get up and go" when you have to walk 3 miles into town because you need to save what little cash you have to buy a tin of beans and some bread instead of using the bus....

Originally posted by AmberLeaf
and i highly doubt you would want to be told to get up at 5am and work until 9pm or lose your crappy benefits.

I already do - I get up at 5, I'm at work at 7 then I do a 12hour day and I get home around 8. I even work nights - in fact I am doing 4 12hour night shifts this weekend! You know what that is called? Life!

If I was told, after 12 months of sitting on my arse, to report for duty or lose my benefits, I'd be there and I'd be early too.

It's only fair that in return for societies help, you do something for society.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
If those things need doing then there should be proper employment for those sent to fill the holes wouldn't you think?

In an ideal world, yes - unfortunately we do not live in such a place. Doing a bit of civic work in return for thousands of pounds a year in handouts seems fair to me (and a great many other people in the UK)

Originally posted by VoidHawk
As for those unemployed for "12+ months". Please explain where the MILLIONS of unemployed will find work?

Can the drama - unemployment stands at 2.5 million - Unemployment in 2006 (the year immediately before the big crunch) stood at 1.7 million - this was during the "good years". There never will be 100% employment.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
As stated in the OP, 400 sent for what amounted to three and a half full time jobs.

Yup - one story out of the many tens of thousands who have gone through this system. If it was being systemically abused, you'd think they'd be reporting it.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
This place has a motto of Deny ignorance, yet 90% of those in threads that concern employment totally ignore the fact that there is not enough jobs. Usually they come out with the same old claptrap "If you want work you've only got to look for it".

For the most part, that is true. Time and again I see people bitching there are no jobs where they live... Effing look somewhere else then! I've worked from Wales, to Cornwall, to Colchester, to the Midlands. In fact, in another thread, some woman was whining that there was an industrial park across the road from where she lived but "no jobs"... When challenged if she had looked elsewhere, the response was "No" and followed by excuses as to why not....

Originally posted by VoidHawk
Even though you seem an educated sensible individual, I do not agree with you.

Thanks and I respect your opinion even though I disagree with you

But, you raise an interesting point - a great many of the long term unemployed are what we shall called "unskilled". Maybe I have enjoyed over a decade of constant employment because I took the time to become "skilled" - there comes a point when the state can only do so much, but if people don't help themselves, such as paying attention in school and seeking training/education, then what do you suggest? Far to many people expect to be handed a well-paid job, despite the fact many are simply unsuitable and no-one will consider the fact that maybe, just maybe, they might have to start from the bottom....

reply to post by VoidHawk


Good post, VoidHawk..

Here in North Yorkshire, our nearby town has a job centre, and the vast majority of the few
jobs available at the moment are part time...
And it is one of the wealthier parts of Yorkshire, with traditionally high employment, even
in bad times...

reply to post by VoidHawk
Your example of camber and how workers are treated is like that all over the world, here in Canada, the Poyal bank of Canada immigrated workers from India to offices here in canada and had their workers at those offices train those immigrants how to do their job then they let those workers go; no compensation, not even any notice; as well lots of small towns and cities in the US are doing the exact same thing. It is up to governments to show some backbone, but they are all to busy lining their pockets at the trough like swine feeding; there has to be a worldwide civil riot against corporations; it will get worse before we asa individuals see any light at the end of this long tunnel.

All I hear in this thread is moan moan moan. "They expect me to work for my free house, bills, food and spending money. This is slave labour". A slave doesn't have a choice but the unemployed do. If you don't want to miss Jeremy Kyle then simply cancel your benefits. Or even better, get a job or some education.

The problem with this country is the attitude of the people, not the government. Everyone thinks they're entitled to a highly paid job despite having next to no skills. I hear "Why should I work when I get more on benefits". The answer is experience, self improvement and self respect. If I was getting something for free I would want to give something back, not moan about it.

Our country needs to get back our traditional British fighting spirit. Stumason seems to have made a strong start. Why don't you...

reply to post by VoidHawk


Seems like some fraudulent BS for gullible people if you ask me.

You're telling me a company had 400 people work for them and didn't pay them anything but benefits? And there were no consequences for the company? No massive fines, no being sued by the 400 temporary "employees?" Like I said. Blatant BS.

Even if that is the case, which (rightfully so) I'm extremely skeptical of, surely these people were aware of the circumstances. So they chose to do the cleaning in exchange for whatever the employer promised. They -chose.- Extremely low compensation for work? That's called a surplus of supply (people) in a world of low demand (workforce) in a economic system based on free enterprise. In no way, shape, or form is that comparable to slavery.

Amazing how many people will eat up these heinous lies just because of buzzwords like "slave."

Just to be clear... I don't want to see workers exploited or given less than their fair share - but I also don't want hatred and blame to be directed at someone who doesn't deserve it due to a lazy (and quite possibly idiotic) "researcher" or "journalist" delivering bad information and hype for his/her own agenda.



Link or it didn't happen. Please no huffington post or dailymail.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by LABTECH767
The soil of these land's is the sweat, the blood, the tear's, the toil and ashes of MY ancestors and they PAID in blood as worker's, soldier's and LORD's (that's right I am descended from hereditary peer's - My mother is a duchess whom was robbed of Aintree property's left to her by the Tattershall's (she is a Hallworth)),.

An impressive claim, but one I find tricky to believe. Aintree lies within the historic boundaries of the Duchy of Lancaster - what is your mother supposedly Duchess of?

EDIT: Also, the only reference to the Tattershall family I can find is in relation to Holme Hall, but if that is the correct family and title you allude to, it certainly wasn't a Duchy...

edit on 13/4/13 by stumason because: (no reason given)

Better question - who gives a #?

Royalty and celebrity of all kinds is BS.

I can well believe that this happened and here is why: After leaving the Royal Navy I worked as a manager for 2 years for a Welfare to Work course provider. It was a very large organisation that was a registered charity, although I can safely say that there was nothing charitable about it. They made there money by providing courses and "work placements" for long term unemployed. Basically if somebody was unemployed for a predetermined period of time they were sent on a 2 week course that was supposed to enhance their CV writing skills and taught them how to job search. In reality it meant that they sat around on a computer being forced to apply for jobs that were totally unsuited to their skills. For every day that every unemployed individual attended the centre the company (charity in their words) received a payment.

For 18-24 year olds their was a different scheme. If somebody of this age group had been unemployed for 12 months they were sent on a 12 week course. This was the same as the 2 week course except that they had to complete a minimum of 8 weeks on work experience. If they didn't attend the work experience their benefits stopped. The work placements were sourced by somebody that was paid to go to big businesses and ask if they required any unemployed youngsters for work experience free of charge. Of course the big companies always said yes. In fact in most cases we didn't have to go to them, the big companies came to us. For every person on work experience the company received a higher payment.
That's right, a company was paid to provide people to do a job, free of charge for 8 weeks rather then the company employing somebody to work and actually paying them a wage. in many cases we knew that there was a few full time positions within these companies because as soon as one group finished their work experience on a Friday another would start on the Monday, and this would continue for years.

My job and in fact the job of all of the staff working for the provider was target driven. we was basically told to get as many people on these courses and on the work placements as possible. if we didn't hit the targets set by the higher ups on how many people were in work placements there would be hell to pay. The whole scheme was about money, making money from the unemployed by playing on their vulnerability. As I have said if the unemployed person refused to carry out a work placement then their benefits were stopped, they were allowed to refuse 3 placements before this happened. Due to this we was told to not bother about their previous experience or their skills,just to get them on a placement anywhere so that the company received the payment under the terms of their contract.

The companies that people were supplied to were never asked if their were jobs available it was sold to them on the paperwork as work experience (Although many of them had been working with the scheme for so long that they knew what they was receiving). We was told to openly lie to the people on the course and tell them that there could be a job at the end of the placement, despite knowing full well that their wasn't.

Basically it was all about money and the abuse of individuals.The whole time I was there I was looking for something better, a job that was more aligned to my values and better payed (You wouldn't believe how low the wages are for staff members in these places) and as soon as I found it I bailed out.

A few points of note though :
The whole workfare scheme (previously called welfare to work) was not brought in by this government it was simply re branded, it was a Labour government initiative..

Also although the scheme didn't help those that wanted to work, it didn't do anything for those that refused to work either. I saw hundreds of people in my time that simply refused to work. Often they were the third generation of workless person within a large family. This needs to be addressed as it is a big problem, although it is a separate problem from those that want to work but can't find it. It should be tackled separately as the individuals are easy to identify within the system.

The unemployment figures are wildly inaccurate. If a person is on a "training" course then they are not classed as unemployed. Therefore the more people that they can push onto these courses the lower the figures. The rules for the amount of time spent on training changed depending on the political landscape. For example just before a general election it was announced that anybody that had attended the course would receive our support for six months after the course finished. we then went through our files and backdated this for six months so that anybody that had attended the centre within this time was still classed as under training despite having completed the time and still being unemployed. A few days after doing this the news reported that unemployment had fallen.

I am not from the UK, but reading through these posts I can see you're suffering a similar plight that we are here in the USA. There's one difference though, that is the mindset of the unemployed. Granted this thread is only limited sampling so this is not scientific in the least.

Where is your entrepreneurship? I see no mention of solutions or ideas or attempts to do something other than complain that it's hard (not saying it isn't). These 'evil' companies making all of this money exploiting people, destroy them. Pool your own resources and start a competitor, even locally. Run a marketing campaign that will make people ill to buy from these people and happy to pay the few extra bucks to shop at your store?

Where is your innovation? Invent something new, a disruptive technology. There are unlimited possibilities out there and we all have access the the most vast library of knowledge ever known to man kind (internet). Yes, it's hard work. Yes, you may fail. But you may also succeed and be able to change your town or country for the better.

That's the common theme I'm seeing world wide, why the world is going to hell so quickly. We the people have given in to evil, accepted its stewardship over us as inevitable. It is NOT! It is only inevitable as long as those of us who are good do nothing, stand by and watch the destruction. Empower yourselves and your communities with the moral good and will to do good to your fellow man.

This is not meant as an attack on any group or person, just my thoughts.