The Silence of the Lambs

The fact is Abortion is still a taboo. What we need to do is talk a lot more about it. The more we talk about it the better it is.
There are two types of people who go for abortion:-
1) People who had unsafe sex and later realize their mistake. In this case it is a mistake and now the couple has to do something about it. These people do not deserve punishment. Parents and elders should talk with such people and try to fix the problem so that they do not opt for abortion .More communication and awareness is needed.

2)People who are sexist. These people should be punished under the law.

Originally posted by Openeye
reply to post by beezzer

 

Were not the abortions he was performing already illegal?

Is not discussing discussing the legality of an already illegal practice redundant?

You're right. It is illegal in that state! But late term abortions are legal in other states.

So it's murder in Pennsylvania, but business as usual in Illinois.

Does that not merit debate?

Originally posted by Openeye
reply to post by beezzer

 

Were not the abortions he was performing already illegal?

Is not discussing discussing the legality of an already illegal practice redundant?

Who are you? Are you the Thought Police?

Regardless of the legality, I'm trying to figure out how the pro choice crowd feels superior enough to draw a line in the sand as to the proper age where murder is acceptable/unacceptable. What arrogance!!

reply to post by seabag

If its not a child at conception then it's not a child as a late term fetus, right?

I think a child of substantial development is far more rationally defined as more wholly human than one at 1 day after conception yes.

Do you consider sperm to be wholly human?

Or the egg of a women?

After all, these aborted fetuses weren't actually born and breathing yet, right?

Well in the case of the psycho is question, yes the children were capable of breathing when he killed them, and I would argue that they were actually born.

I'm not a big supporter of abortion at all, however I believe reason to be more effective as a tool of policy making than say emotion or simple conjecture.

reply to post by MyLifeRocks


The only time (again, my opinion) abortion should be considered is when the life of the mother is at stake or the life of the pre-natal infant is at stake.

Originally posted by Openeye
reply to post by seabag

 

If its not a child at conception then it's not a child as a late term fetus, right?

I think a child of substantial development is far more rationally defined as more wholly human than one at 1 day after conception yes.

Do you consider sperm to be wholly human?

Or the egg of a women?

After all, these aborted fetuses weren't actually born and breathing yet, right?

Well in the case of the psycho is question, yes the children were capable of breathing when he killed them, and I would argue that they were actually born.

I'm not a big supporter of abortion at all, however I believe reason to be more effective as a tool of policy making than say emotion or simple conjecture.

Please. Sperm and eggs are haploids and cannot develop on their own. Implant sperm or egg in a uterus and you won't get anything.

Can we move quickly from this tired old saw?

reply to post by Openeye

Do you consider sperm to be wholly human?

Or the egg of a women?

A sperm or an unfertilized egg is not life. If you are pregnant enough to get an abortion then it's life.

I'm not a big supporter of abortion at all, however I believe reason to be more effective as a tool of policy making than say emotion or simple conjecture.

This coming from someone who makes a distinction between a 3 week old fetus and 8 week old fetus.

Explain that reasoning before you lecture others about emotions and lack of reason.

reply to post by beezzer


Just think about all the money shes going to make because of these accusations.

Making unsubstantiated claims against the healthcare industry is becoming a profession.........

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by beezzer

 

Just think about all the money shes going to make because of these accusations.

Making unsubstantiated claims against the healthcare industry is becoming a profession.........

Curious.

Do you think a) that the doctor didn't perform these actions, or b) he did but it was no big deal.

reply to post by beezzer


The maximum time for abortion in Illinois is 24 weeks, the same as it is in Pennsylvania.

Any longer is a crime unless there is some sort of extreme risk to the mother.

Please. Sperm and eggs are haploids and cannot develop on their own. Implant sperm or egg in a uterus and you won't get anything.

Can we move quickly from this tired old saw?

I mean were falling into the classical argument, which is when does "humanity" begin.

I do not think that a 1 day old fertilized egg is in the same category as a 4 week old fetus. The biological structures are phenomenally different.

Again I'm not a full on supporter of abortion I think the only reason it should be legal is so a criminal enterprise does not rise from the illegality of the practice.

That being said in my personal opinion abortions should not even be considered beyond 4 weeks, but before 12 weeks clinical abortions are not even practical.

reply to post by seabag

This coming from someone who makes a distinction between a 3 week old fetus and 8 week old fetus.

There is a slight difference, but I did not even point it out you literally just put words in my mouth.

I did however make a clear distinction above that a 1 day old fertilized egg is much different from a 4 week old fetus. Do you deny this?

reply to post by beezzer

Originally posted by beezzer
But I just wanted anyone, everyone aware of the consequences of abortions, late term abortions and th fact that we are talking about life here.

And you think this hasn't been debated TO DEATH here? Are you kidding Beez? Did you do a search on abortion or late-term abortion? I call bull-hockey on your feigned innocence. If you want to talk about the Gosnell trial, then I can understand why you'd say it hasn't been discussed here, but ABORTION? Where have you been?

Secondly, what this Dr. did was ILLEGAL. Not only did he perform late-term abortions, he had HORRID medical practices and has no business giving medical advice, let alone giving medical care.

This thread is an appeal to the emotions and EVERY BIT as rotten as reporting on every child getting shot as a reason to outlaw guns. Pretty lame. The GOP is at work here. I can smell it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Beez is applying the tactic "for the children".

Now , where have I heard that before... and I thought we were against it?

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Beez is applying the tactic "for the children".

Now , where have I heard that before... and I thought we were against it?

That only works if your talking about banning obgyn's as they are capable of performing mur... I mean abortions.

Not the same issue at all, this is a specific item he is discussing, late term abortions.

Thats like saying what happened in the massacres are just post term abortions, not the same logic buddy.

Nothing like a bunch of right-wing men discussing abortions, what insight

reply to post by beezzer


Thanks for posting - not because I enjoy addressing this type of repugnant subject but running from it is just being ignorant and afraid. People need to discuss what is vile and heartbreaking because that is how we learn.

My first thoughts are about the person assisting the 'medical expert' - who is she and is it just another planted story, to bring it to the attention of the population - so in turn - the government has the opportunity to tighten the screws on their legislative abilities and domination????

Second thoughts were tuned to the fact that this so called medical professional sounds like a psychopath - unless - he was just expressing himself poorly in an attempt to deal with heartbreaking situations????!!!!

My personal view is that it is a choice - terminating an unwanted pregnancy is a choice and that choice belongs to the people who created the situation. Governments on this planet love taking away freedom of choice and that could become the law in this situation.

Let's look at what happens when a woman is forced to live through a pregnancy she has already chosen to terminate but is denied her choice. The woman will no doubt be psychologically scarred for life. The Child grows up in who knows what circumstances and is going to be impacted on psychologically - whatever happens.

On this planet we don't just have a handful/manageable amount of unwanted/homeless/psychologically damaged Children - in some places we have countries of Children starving for want of a morsel of food - let alone other basic needs.

This thread - to stay on topic - is about a medical expert who - for whatever reason made inappropriate comments but provided a requested service. It is also about a young girl who - perhaps should have reported the behaviour to a medical authority or ...is she a genuine person or a government plant tasked with providing the opportunity to open up public debate. Well - we are here debating it so to that end ....

Let's take away the option and see backyard abortions re-appear (where they are now not an option anymore) and also let's imagine an entire generation of unwanted Children - let's imagine they are all okay and well adjusted and let's imagine they are not ...

I was born unwanted and would not wish it on anyone. Don't ask for details - please - I have enough happening in my life right now and believe it or not I am actually completely immersed in an on-going situation that has and is still giving me the basis and evidence to (eventually) change Child Protection Laws so that they actually protect Children.

Thanks for reading and at least allow me my opinion - you don't have to like me or to believe me just respect my right to be pro choice.

Much Peace...to all unwanted Children who don't know their heritage or culture or medical history or who live on the street because it is the best option or who are psychologically damaged as a direct result of adults who put themselves first ...

Dear beezzer,

Have another one, if you haven't seen it already.

April 9, 2013 (WPVI) -- A local abortion clinic is under fire, facing allegations of unsafe and unsanitary conditions.

A series of emergency calls made from the Planned Parenthood of Delaware this year are raising concerns about what's happening behind the closed doors.

Two former nurses who both quit are speaking exclusively with Action News about what they saw inside.

Jayne Mitchell-Werbrich, former employee said, "It was just unsafe. I couldn't tell you how ridiculously unsafe it was."

Werbrich alleges conditions inside the facility were unsanitary.

"He didn't wear gloves," said Werbrich.

Another former employee, Joyce Vasikonis told Action News, "They were using instruments on patients that were not sterile."

The former nurses claim that a rush to get patients in and out left operating tables soiled and unclean.

Werbrich said "It's not washed down, it's not even cleaned off. It has bloody drainage on it."

"They could be at risk of getting hepatitis, even AIDS," added Vasikonis.

Both of these nurses said, they quit to protect their own medical licenses, stunned by what they called a meat-market style of assembly-line abortions.

Vasikonis said, "I felt I could be held liable if a patient was harmed."

"Planned Parenthood needs to close its doors, it's needs to be cleaned up, the staff needs to be trained, said Werbrich."

In Delaware, abortion clinics are not subject to routine inspections. The state only steps in when they have a patient complaint. Planned Parenthood is essentially in charge of inspecting itself.

Mary Peterson from the Delaware Department of Health and Human Services said, "I am not going to lie to you, we don't have the manpower to do routine inspections."

She says, her investigators went into the facility in October of last year after a complaint.

We asked Peterson, did they find any problems with the sterilization of utensils. She told us "no, no." We then asked if blood was being left after one patient had surgery and another one came in, she replied, "absolutely none."

Investigators say, they have not found evidence to support the claims raised by Vasikonis and Werbrich.

Since January 4th, five patients allegedly have been rushed from the facility to the emergency room, again placing the clinic in the spotlight.

Peterson says, it raises concerns and they are in the process of looking into what is causing the issues to occur.

Action News has learned during our investigation that one doctor and two more nurses at the clinic have mysteriously left. (Emphasis added)

Planned Parenthood - Delaware

*yawn*
Just waking up. Thanks for all the replies. And now that I'm awake and clear-headed (read that as sober) perhaps I can address a few points.

I'm glad to see so many disgusted by this man. But really, can we blame him? For decades we have been inundated with articles and shows and such that pre-natal children are just "tissue". Just a growing mass of cells.
We, as a culture, have made ourselves immune to the possibility that this is life! Abortion, the causal disregard for life, has wormed its way into our cultural mindset to such a degree that I'm actually surprised this doesn't occur more often.

Before the pro-abortion crowd starts huffing in indignation, please remember that you have brought this upon all of us.

Those of us who celebrate life and adore even the smallest of heartbeats have been drowned out by the "woman's body" crowd, we've been labeled religious nuts and mysoginistic cavemen all so that a greater acceptance of abortions can occur.

Well, this is what you folks have wrought.

Just crazy.

If one wants to make a decision about their body and what grows inside, who am I to tell them no?

Its hard to look at my children and feel comfortable with the thought of Abortion though. I believe this country has tried to push Abortion as a normal "procedure". I don't think it is, or ever should be.

reply to post by cripmeister


I see nothing wrong with discussing Abortion, regardless if its male or female, or political group.

Its not like those "Aborted" can weigh into the discussion, hey?