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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by BlackSunApocalypse
As always, I'm confused. Would you give me a little help? Are you saying that Jesus wasn't crucified, that it was a symbolic story created to show love? Or, that he was crucified and the purpose of His Crucifixion was to demonstrate a moral lesson? Or, do you think it was something else?
Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
Jesus was crucified in the flesh, the interpretation of the story has been distorted by so many people and caused much discord, now listen, it is obvious the world has problems, it is obvious that humans are not NORMAL. What is normal? We all have psychological problems, there are things that confuse us and things easily clarified to us, but really, if the external is a reflection of the internal and we look at the world today, we can confirm that people are mentally unstable and retarded. Jesus came into the world to bring us the doctrine of the Christ. Now Christ is the Word- the living fire through which all is sustained. The fire is everywhere. It sustains every atom. I know some are going to argue this but anyway, let me get to crux of the matter.. Christ is the Word (Fire), and through the Word all things were created (Read the book of John), so now we can see that the Word is the Fire (God is a consuming FIRE, read hebrew 12:29) of all creation and the Word (if incarnated) is what eventually makes us creators. Now listen, Christ is the fire and in order to incarnate that fire, we have to clear our temples (bodies) from the evil which is corrupting it, nobody can deny that their evil or "wrong" deeds somehow have an effect on their conscience, even their health? NOBODY can deny this, evil destroys us. It is necessary to do more than just believe, it is necessary to consciously remove those evils within us so a new man can be created, a man of wisdom and of love, for Christ (The fire of wisdom and power) will by no means be united to a prostitute (someone who sells his body to passions and evil deeds)- read Corinthians 6:15. When I say the story is symbolic, I'm saying what REALLY happened represents something beyond literal meaning.
Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by vethumanbeing
Dear vethumanbeing,
This is becoming much more interesting than I thought it would. Thank you. You've opened up a fascinating subject. What role does god play in our daily lives?
I'm a little more comfortable with "dieased," or "twisted," but those aren't insupperable problems.
Jesus was crucified in the flesh, the interpretation of the story has been distorted by so many people and caused much discord, now listen, it is obvious the world has problems, it is obvious that humans are not NORMAL. What is normal? We all have psychological problems, there are things that confuse us and things easily clarified to us, but really, if the external is a reflection of the internal and we look at the world today, we can confirm that people are mentally unstable and retarded.
My confusion starts here, with your use of the word "doctrine." I'm not sure that Jesus taught any particularly new truths, just about everything He taught can be found in earlier philosophies and religions. I would argue that Jesus had a different purpose, but I don't know if that is important to your train of thought.
Jesus came into the world to bring us the doctrine of the Christ.
My only problem here is your idea that we are creators. Certainly not in the sense of making something from nothing. I suppose I'm misunderstanding you.
Now Christ is the Word- the living fire through which all is sustained. The fire is everywhere. It sustains every atom. I know some are going to argue this but anyway, let me get to crux of the matter.. Christ is the Word (Fire), and through the Word all things were created (Read the book of John), so now we can see that the Word is the Fire (God is a consuming FIRE, read hebrew 12:29) of all creation and the Word (if incarnated) is what eventually makes us creators.
I think you're saying that we cannot become "new men" until we have removed the evil within us. If so, I have some real difficulty here. No matter what we do, we can never remove all of the evil within us. (Except, maybe for a few of the Saints, but they all claim to be sinners also.) It is as if you're saying that we can't see the stars until we can jump over the moon. I don't like being told that I must do an impossible thing.
Now listen, Christ is the fire and in order to incarnate that fire, we have to clear our temples (bodies) from the evil which is corrupting it, nobody can deny that their evil or "wrong" deeds somehow have an effect on their conscience, even their health? NOBODY can deny this, evil destroys us. It is necessary to do more than just believe, it is necessary to consciously remove those evils within us so a new man can be created, a man of wisdom and of love,for Christ (The fire of wisdom and power) will by no means be united to a prostitute (someone who sells his body to passions and evil deeds)- read Corinthians 6:15
I agree that we will never know, this side of Heaven, the true complete meaning of the Crucifixion, but I deny that we can never know any of it. I'm sure there is more than the literal meaning, but the literal meaning does exist and has been sufficient for vast oceans of people throughout history.
When I say the story is symbolic, I'm saying what REALLY happened represents something beyond literal meaning.
The Father passed a law denying self expression? I don't know where that comes from. And Jesus promoted the law against self expression? Please tell me where. Then the Father tortured Jesus? I thought it was the Roman soldiers.
How does one show love through an ill defined law of "deny self expression" and then torture the one that promotes it; alongside thieves?
I don't see that it was to minimize anything. That was pretty much maximum death as far as I can tell. Jesus steals minds? No, He offers to heal diseased ones. If He stole minds, He must be a singularly ineffective thief. Observe all the minds He doesn't have.
Was this to minimise which? the thief of minds or thief of gross goods?
Yet the people for millennia have seen what you are unable to.
No moral lesson here at all (except keep your mouth shut or you will hang on wood).
Yet everyone who heard Him speak marvelled at His wisdom and authority.
Jesus must have been the most ignorant/naive prophet ever lived to have agreed to this senario (in fact feels betrayed by its users).
I don't understand your question. If I was executed for doing wrong, then the lesson would be justice.
What would be the moral lesson Charles if you yourself were the crucified one?
If you don't recognize it, then you are hiding. Evil is all around. It provides us with temptations to do evil. Thinking that evil is powerless against you, is either clearly false, or demonstrates a serious spiritual condition in you. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Except you?
What if "I" IN FACT WILL NOT RECOGNISE EVIL (therefore it cannot touch me) and has no sayso as far as the progression of my soul continues without detriment or thwarting of.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by BlackSunApocalypse
No. Our imperfections will never go away. You can't kill them off or anything like that. You can only take opportunities to exercise your strength, expand your horizons, and educate yourself. You can never eliminate your flaws, you can only compensate for them.
And there's no point to being ashamed either. No point at all. But that's not the point here. The point is that the Christian god, or even the ideals it represents, are not healthy or worthwhile ideals for the human species. We are worshipping the inability to lose.edit on 7-9-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)
"Our imperfections will never go away", ever heard the saying "Never say never"? It could be perfectly applied to what you just said, and using "opportunities" to compensate for your flaws only means that somewhere within yourself you've lost hope in eliminating them. Am I correct? Please correct me if not.
The "Christian god" has been grossly misinterpreted by the subjective mind. I don't think you can judge the "Christian God" without having practiced the teachings the Bible presents. I read one of your threads, you said "it's important to wear someone elses shoes before judging them", well, if you wore the "Christians shoes" and really practiced it, only then would your judgements be acceptable.
veteranhumanbeingWhat if "I" IN FACT WILL NOT RECOGNISE EVIL (therefore it cannot touch me) and has no sayso as far as the progression of my soul continues without detriment or thwarting of.
charles1952
If you don't recognize it, then you are hiding. Evil is all around. It provides us with temptations to do evil. Thinking that evil is powerless against you, is either clearly false, or demonstrates a serious spiritual condition in you. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Except you?
veteranhumanbeingHow does one show love through an ill defined law of "deny self expression" and then torture the one that promotes it; alongside thieves? The Father passed a law denying self expression? I don't know where that comes from. And Jesus promoted the law against self expression? Please tell me where. Then the Father tortured Jesus? I thought it was the Roman soldiers.Was this to minimise which? the thief of minds or thief of gross goods?
charles1952
I don't see that it was to minimize anything. That was pretty much maximum death as far as I can tell. Jesus steals minds? No, He offers to heal diseased ones. If He stole minds, He must be a singularly ineffective thief. Observe all the minds He doesn't have.
veteranhumanbeingNo moral lesson here at all (except keep your mouth shut or you will hang on wood).Yet the people for millennia have seen what you are unable to. Jesus must have been the most ignorant/naive prophet ever lived to have agreed to this senario (in fact feels betrayed by its users).
charles1952
Yet everyone who heard Him speak marvelled at His wisdom and authority.
veteranhumanbeing]What would be the moral lesson Charles if you yourself were the crucified one?
charles1952
I don't understand your question. If I was executed for doing wrong, then the lesson would be justice.
I think the better question to ask yourself is why is your pride and vanity so deeply rooted that it controls every part of your being to the point where instead of just getting on your knees and sincerely asking God who he is and submitting to his authority, that instead your so drunk on pride that you waste your life coming up with hypotheticals that are bullsheat. If anything all your question actually does is remind Christians what kind of lost vile blind creatures they use to be.
Even if we aren't as powerful as other beings, who cares? As long as we're content and happy within ourselves. That's all that matters. Peace between humans should reign, and likewise among the gods. Power can gradually be increased. You question a God upon ultimate sacrifice. So let me ask YOU this, if you could choose between eternal hell fire or eternal bliss and peace, and those were your only 2 choices. What would you choose?
We've always had a choice, we were born with the choice, and the sooner we make it the better, the struggle between 2 opposing opposites only creates confusion and strive.