Father Reportedly Locked Out of Daughter’s Swim Practice to Accommodate Muslim Sensibilities

Not sure why people seem unable to understand that this is NOT a religious issu.
it was quite simply a FEMALE only swim class.
What is the point in having women only classes if men can sit and watch?
There are many reason why women would wish to swim without men watching, they are not all related to religion.
Men only swim classes are also available.

The saddest thing is that people have twisted this to attack Muslims.

Originally posted by Irako
So what exactly is the issue here? That there exists a swimming class that accommodates Muslim sensibilities?

That there exists a Canadian public swimming pool that accommodates Muslim sensibilities by not accommodating the Canadian's father's.

Originally posted by Irako
Here's some advice for this parent: find a class where men are allowed to watch! I'm sure they exist.

I'm sure non public, Muslim only swimming pools exist as well.

Originally posted by Irako
Btw, I'm Canadian myself, and it is amusing the only people I've heard make a commotion about this are Americans.

And the Canadian father of course.

BTW:- It is awfully accommodating of you to so freely give away other people's rights.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Irako
So what exactly is the issue here? That there exists a swimming class that accommodates Muslim sensibilities?

That there exists a Canadian public swimming pool that accommodates Muslim sensibilities by not accommodating the Canadian's father's.

Originally posted by Irako
Here's some advice for this parent: find a class where men are allowed to watch! I'm sure they exist.

I'm sure non public, Muslim only swimming pools exist as well.

Originally posted by Irako
Btw, I'm Canadian myself, and it is amusing the only people I've heard make a commotion about this are Americans.

And the Canadian father of course.

BTW:- It is awfully accommodating of you to so freely give away other people's rights.

Ok, so what you are saying is, there should be no public swimming pool that accommodates Muslim girls whatsoever. That even one swimming pool that disallows a father to watch a swimming practice somehow encroaches on the rights of all. Even though there are probably a plethora of other public pools that would allow him to watch! And I assure you, it is probably much easier for him to find a pool that suits his needs than it is for a Muslim family to find one that suits theirs!
Btw, it is kind of amusing how you think this is a rights issue. There is nothing that says this man has a right to watch his daughter swim. Girl's washrooms at that pool, I'm sure, are considered 'public,' but he has no right to go in them just because they are taxpayer funded.
I noticed how you refer to this man as "the Canadian father" lol. You do know that when people immigrate to Canada, they become 'Canadian.' So in other words, Muslims can indeed be "Canadian parents."

After digging into this a bit and calling the manager at that facility, there is more clarity for me.

This was a GIRLS ONLY swim class. These Muslim girls need a GIRLS ONLY class, as males looking at their hair goes against their grain. So they did what they thought they should do and joined a GIRLS ONLY swim class to avoid males.

But in their plans, they forgot about the MEN sitting in the observation room, OBSERVING an ALL GIRLS CLASS.

WTF? if you need to watch your little princess so closely, take them to an OPEN CLASS. There will be no Muslim woman there complaining about you watching, because they will NOT be there.

Theres always go to be some fat slob in the stands, with hungry eyes watching little girls run around in tights swimwear.

Now, I love nothing more than having woman run around in swimwear, underwear, swimwear that looks like underwear, underwear that looks like swimwear. But I dont need to go perv at a pool to do it.

HEY FATTY, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT?


Edit: PS can I get my silver lining soon please. LOL.

Originally posted by Irako
So what exactly is the issue here? That there exists a swimming class that accommodates Muslim sensibilities? You are angry because of that?? lol. Here's some advice for this parent: find a class where men are allowed to watch! I'm sure they exist. He probably sent his kid to the one all girls class that disallowed male parents.
Btw, I'm Canadian myself, and it is amusing the only people I've heard make a commotion about this are Americans.

As discussed in other responses on this thread, the parent does have a choice if they are/were clearly explained about the rules and regulations of such a swim team/club/class. IMO they must not have clarified them upfront but most than likely a staff must have provided explanation outside the guidelines. OTOH, I've seen many canadians on ATS doing the same with non-canadian issues

Originally posted by lnfideI

But in their plans, they forgot about the MEN sitting in the observation room, OBSERVING an ALL GIRLS CLASS.

So whose fault is this? The Father's fault?

WTF? if you need to watch your little princess so closely, take them to an OPEN CLASS. There will be no Muslim woman there complaining about you watching, because they will NOT be there.

I'm sure the father would have enrolled her appropriately if the forgotten PLANS would have been provided to him upfront

Theres always go to be some fat slob in the stands, with hungry eyes watching little girls run around in tights swimwear.

True and it doesn't just have to be swimming pools. It could be beaches too or any public place for that matter.

Originally posted by Irako
Girl's washrooms at that pool, I'm sure, are considered 'public,' but he has no right to go in them just because they are taxpayer funded.

I don't believe the Canadian father expressed any desire to go into the girl's washrooms.

Originally posted by Irako
Ok, so what you are saying is, there should be no public swimming pool that accommodates Muslim girls whatsoever.

Currently, a Muslim girl can go to any public swimming pool she likes.

She doesn't have a right to demand that her religious belief tramples over the Canadian father's rights.

Why are people saying that they should get out. What if they were born there.
"“This is the way it needs to be in order to accommodate the programs. We’re not opening the door to one cultural group only — this is all females we’re accommodating.”"
And i love that reply on the first page, that talked about how muslims didn't found the country. Go study some history and learn how the culture was back then when they founded the country.
The reason why they didn't let him in because they had Muslim women who usually wear scarfs, and cover their legs. but they were Without scarfs and with swimming suit.
This shouldn't be an issue anyways. Since they offer this class for mixed gender. They aren't FORCING religion on anyone. It's a female only class to begin with. What's the point of female only classes if males will end up watching them .

Theres always go to be some fat slob in the stands, with hungry eyes watching little girls run around in tights swimwear.

True and it doesn't just have to be swimming pools. It could be beaches too or any public place for that matter.

That's why it's a "Female-Only class"

Originally posted by lnfideI
Theres always go to be some fat slob in the stands, with hungry eyes watching little girls run around in tights swimwear.

Thanks for your perspective. It is well known that many Muslim men object to other men looking at their woman.

i'm Usually someone who likes to keep religion out of school... but this this mainly turned into anti-Islam thread, not just that, attack on minorities, all minorities and as well as immigrants.

If its an All women class, does that mean, males can watch on the side line?

i really don't know the rules exactly, i only been to mixed pools.

reply to post by Misbah

I'm proud that the swimming school gave a chance for the Muslim to swim separately because of religious beliefs.

When are they going to give one for Hindus, Buddhist and Christians?

reply to post by ghosthunterr


You don't even know that you are sub consciously being racist.

So you mix up all minorities from 150 countries with different language and culture and call them majority? or so you have the US vs THEM-ALL attitude. wow. I'm pretty sure minorities don't bunch themselves with other minorities as one. Interesting, you have more rights for the land because you came a bit earlier?

And don't be doom and gloom, Toronto is not like that at all, yes i seen few Muslim school, and 1 Jewish school, and 0 Hindu school, and even the Jewish school allows other students in them.

Its cool tho, your attitude is a dying art.

Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0
The reason why they didn't let him in because they had Muslim women who usually wear scarfs, and cover their legs. but they were Without scarfs and with swimming suit.

This shouldn't be an issue anyways.

That's right. It shouldn't be an issue.

If Muslims immigrate to a Western country they should integrate rather than demand that the West changes to be like the third world religious theocracy their family emigrated from.

When in Rome, as they say.

Originally posted by luciddream
Interesting, you have more rights for the land because you came a bit earlier?

Uninterrupted possession of land for 20 years gives anyone a good title.

So yes. Canadian settlers from the 19th and 20th century do have a better claim to the land.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Irako
Girl's washrooms at that pool, I'm sure, are considered 'public,' but he has no right to go in them just because they are taxpayer funded.

I don't believe the Canadian father expressed any desire to go into the girl's washrooms.

Originally posted by Irako
Ok, so what you are saying is, there should be no public swimming pool that accommodates Muslim girls whatsoever.

Currently, a Muslim girl can go to any public swimming pool she likes.

She doesn't have a right to demand that her religious belief tramples over the Canadian father's rights.

edit on 11-4-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

You obviously didn't get my point. Just because a place is public, it does not give an individual an automatic right to be there. There can still be varying rules applied to said public place. This is not a rights issue. Like I said before, there is no right that dictates a man should be able to watch his daughter in swimming class. Just as he cannot go into the girl's washroom to watch her urinate.
Actually, because you keep speaking of this father's rights being trampled, you must know which rights these are.
Because of cultural differences, it is difficult for more conservative Muslim girls to go to classes where males are allowed to watch. This is why there is one class where no males are allowed at all. Don't you see how silly you are being??? One class in a major city, out of how many all girls classes being offered?
And you keep using the word "Canadian" when referring to the father, as if the Muslims aren't Canadians by nature of their religion.

Originally posted by Irako
Like I said before, there is no right that dictates a man should be able to watch his daughter in swimming class. Just as he cannot go into the girl's washroom to watch her urinate.

The father didn't want to watch his daughter urinate. He wanted to watch his daughter swim.

Originally posted by Irako
Actually, because you keep speaking of this father's rights being trampled, you must know which rights these are.
Because of cultural differences, it is difficult for more conservative Muslim girls to go to classes where males are allowed to watch.

No doubt the Canadian father, because of cultural differences, finds it difficult to understand why a Muslim woman should be able to stop him from watching his daughter swim.

Muslims immigrants must accept that third world religious belief systems do not give them the right to trample over Western people's rights. They have no right to demand that the West changes to be like the third world they fled from.

reply to post by ollncasino


Are you trying to be a troll? You sound like you are just repeating your original points, and not really replying to me.
Unfortunately, there is no such 'right' as "native Westerners (ie Whites) shall not make any compromise with immigrants." Most rights that I'm aware of deal with the individual, irrespective of their background.
I know, it must be infuriating for people like you, and I guess that's why these threads are always on the front page of ATS.

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by Unferth
This post reeks of anti-Islamic xenophobia. Don't you have a problem with falling for the old, they are taking over our country routine? Or are conspiracy theorists as racists as the next, dumb redneck?
IT SAID A FEMALE-ONLY POOL. Why would somebody want to swim with females only when some old guy can sneak in and start perving it?Yeah, I come from an "Islamic" country and was raised in California. Pervs happen. If it says female only, let them be female only. Poor daddy.

edit on 11-4-2013 by Unferth because: (no reason given)

Thanks for your comments and compliments. First of all, nowhere does it indicate in the link that the father wanted to swim with females. The father only wanted to watch her daughter practice which is perfectly fine with me (and perhaps every parents). Perhaps they should have clarified upfront that you can't even watch your daughter practice so that the dad would have enrolled her in a boys/girls swimming class.

Oh I see Unferth called you an 'anti-islamic xenophobic'... all I got from him was that I was 'a racist'! Clearly the guy's a moron... since when are muslim people a 'race'?? Idiot.

Apparently, not wanting to continually compromise an already existing 'norm' (i.e. everyone, no matter what race, colour or crede) of everyone being able to enjoy a public swimming facility 'together' and all of a sudden changing fifty years of harmonious acceptance to suit one particular religion who have moved into the community is 'racist'.

Why am I even wasting my time commenting on this guy and his screwed up sense of reality.

Originally posted by Irako
Are you trying to be a troll? You sound like you are just repeating your original points, and not really replying to me.

You have stated that the father has no right to watch his daughter urinate. You have stated that the father has no right to go into the girls washrooms at the public pool.

The father didn't want to watch his daughter urinate or to go into the girls washrooms. He wanted to watch his little girl swim.

You have also stated that the father's right to watch his daughter swim must be over-ridden by a conservative Muslim girl's objection to him seeing her hair.

Why should a Canadian man be prevented from watching his daughter swim because a Muslim immigrant doesn't want him to see her hair?

Why should a third world immigrant's religious beliefs trample over a Canadian's secular rights?

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

 

Again. Read the full article.

It's not a muslim only class. It's a Female only class.
We have plenty of female only gyms and whatnot.

Were the class a religious class I'd be all over it.

As a Female only class then it's a different story.

I read the full article. All women's class means the guys can't get in the water with their kids. Having it include the spectators is stupid.

The dad didn't choose to have a daughter. The dad also didn't choose to be a man.

The women who complained were Muslim and cited religious reasons why they couldn't be looked at while in the pool with their daughters, and they chose to be Muslim. So tough #$*&# for them. If anyone should be barred from the class it's them.

If not, the other classes should be "Men's" only classes to be fair. But it wouldn't be fair, it would be absurd.

Exactly.

Originally posted by lnfideI
After digging into this a bit and calling the manager at that facility, there is more clarity for me.

This was a GIRLS ONLY swim class. These Muslim girls need a GIRLS ONLY class, as males looking at their hair goes against their grain. So they did what they thought they should do and joined a GIRLS ONLY swim class to avoid males.

But in their plans, they forgot about the MEN sitting in the observation room, OBSERVING an ALL GIRLS CLASS.

WTF? if you need to watch your little princess so closely, take them to an OPEN CLASS. There will be no Muslim woman there complaining about you watching, because they will NOT be there.

Theres always go to be some fat slob in the stands, with hungry eyes watching little girls run around in tights swimwear.

Now, I love nothing more than having woman run around in swimwear, underwear, swimwear that looks like underwear, underwear that looks like swimwear. But I dont need to go perv at a pool to do it.

HEY FATTY, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT?


Edit: PS can I get my silver lining soon please. LOL.

edit on 11-4-2013 by lnfideI because: ~~~~ __/) ~~~~~~

This was a GIRLS ONLY swim class. These Muslim girls need a GIRLS ONLY class, as males looking at their hair goes against their grain. So they did what they thought they should do and joined a GIRLS ONLY swim class to avoid males.

Here's a thought... put on swimming cap. Problem solved!

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Irako
Are you trying to be a troll? You sound like you are just repeating your original points, and not really replying to me.

You have stated that the father has no right to watch his daughter urinate. You have stated that the father has no right to go into the girls washrooms at the public pool.

The father didn't want to watch his daughter urinate or to go into the girls washrooms. He wanted to watch his little girl swim.

You have also stated that the father's right to watch his daughter swim must be over-ridden by a conservative Muslim girl's objection to him seeing her hair.

Why should a Canadian man be prevented from watching his daughter swim because a Muslim immigrant doesn't want him to see her hair?

Why should a third world immigrant's religious beliefs trample over a Canadian's secular rights?

The reason I keep asking you about what you mean by 'rights' is you keep using the word in regards to the father. What do you mean by 'rights?' A father does not have the right to watch his daughter at all times, hence the example of the public washroom. So what other right of the father was violated??

In all honestly, I'd be annoyed as well if this father weren't allowed in any all girl's swimming class (and I'm a visible minority). But this doesn't appear to be the case. If the guy was not informed beforehand that he couldn't watch his kid swim, then he should get his money back, with an apology.