Why I Am A Vegetarian

Originally posted by Aleister

Originally posted by Wisescarab
reply to post by Aleister

 

I have yet to meet a healthy vegan. Not a single one.

Then you really really need to get out more and hang out with the vegan people. The celebrities alone who are vegan are as healthy as horses (who are vegan), have the strength of elephants and the swiftness of deers (both vegan), carry with them the wisdom of the gorillas and the tenderness of the alien people of Sirius (all vegans). I was going to write lollollol at your comment, but was too surprised to lol. It just sounds so weird to me, pardon my overboardness. It's like "huh?" compared to my own experience.

EDIT: Since you haven't met one yet, I'd like to introduce you. Wisescarab, meet Anne. Anne, Wisescarab.

edit on 11-4-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

You act like vegans are superhuman which is absolute bs.

And then you added in the "alien people of Sirius".

Why must every topic regarding this issue inevitably devolve into elitism and ad hominem attacks? Especially one which specifically began by trying to go out of its way to avoid offending anyone and framing itself purely as personal opinions and feelings?

Allow me to suggest that both sides look at this way:

If the goal of veganism and vegetarianism are to reduce the suffering of animals and this desire is born of empathy for them, then surely the same empathy and compassion can be shown toward human beings in the form of mutual respect and civil communication. Condescension and anger aren't going to result in greater harmony or less suffering for anyone, animal or human. Likewise, if those who eat meat feel offended or angry because they disagree with some of the more condescending vegans and vegetarians they've encountered in life, then surely that offense and anger stems from feeling attacked. So attacking in kind won't reduce that tension.

I humbly request that both sides (since I'm sort of in the middle personally) try to talk to one another rather than at each other, and have some good will in your attitudes and speech toward one another. (This isn't directed at everyone, but it seems like every time this topic comes up it ends in arguments and consternation.)

If you can't or won't... well, I tried. And I only have the emotional energy reserves to play diplomat once today, so beyond this I'll just stay out of it.

Peace.

I wonder what it feels like to starve to death?

Or to lie half-dead in a brutal trap for days?

Or to be poisoned by pesticides?


The number of animals that die in the process of plant-based farming is staggering....

If every animal contains a soul, I'd rather see one cow slaughtered humanely than 100 mice/rats/birds/lizards/etc die horrible deaths.

Originally posted by RothchildRancor
Most vegans I have ever met stare down there nose at you.

(I forgot to mention that giraffes are vegan, although if they ate a really long snake it would look pretty cool.)

Originally posted by RothchildRancor

Originally posted by Aleister

Originally posted by Wisescarab
reply to post by Aleister

 

I have yet to meet a healthy vegan. Not a single one.

Then you really really need to get out more and hang out with the vegan people. The celebrities alone who are vegan are as healthy as horses (who are vegan), have the strength of elephants and the swiftness of deers (both vegan), carry with them the wisdom of the gorillas and the tenderness of the alien people of Sirius (all vegans). I was going to write lollollol at your comment, but was too surprised to lol. It just sounds so weird to me, pardon my overboardness. It's like "huh?" compared to my own experience.

EDIT: Since you haven't met one yet, I'd like to introduce you. Wisescarab, meet Anne. Anne, Wisescarab.

edit on 11-4-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

You act like vegans are superhuman which is absolute bs.

And then you added in the "alien people of Sirius".

edit on 12-4-2013 by spacedoubt because: Removed personal Insult. We don't do that here.

edit on 12-4-2013 by spacedoubt because: (no reason given)

No I said that one family who were raised as vegan and are still in their 60's vegan and all that i said they are.

Just so some realize not all vegans are running around brain dead with no teeth...I did not exaggerate in any way about them by the way and I envied them since I was 7 and first met them at a pool where they looked like my barbie doll.

Why do you have a problem with me telling you an experience of my own.

Originally posted by Hollie
reply to post by TheFinder

 

I wouldn't consider this dumb, but certainly ignorant. Vegetarians eat eggs, cheese, milk, and all that other fatty stuff right? That is why your farts and breath stink. Ever seen a skinny vegetarian? Of course not because all they eat is cheese and other fats. Vegans are a different story. Skinny with stinky breath and farts.

All those things are factory farmed that you vegetarians eat. Are you okay with eating your 5$ Little Ceasars cheese pizza? That pizza box killed a tree that housed a thousand or more creatures. Do you even know where processed cheese and milk comes from?

Vegans and vegetarians contribute to just as much animal consumption as a meat eater does. Your leather shoes, car seats, petroleum plastic packages, and EVEN your stick built house has killed millions of animals. Even the pencil you write with cost a bunch of lives. Get real troll.

edit on 11-4-2013 by Hollie because: mispellings

I guess responses like these say a lot about a person, I can't see why personal attacks when voicing opinions about anything in life is necessary.

Also there seems to be a tendency for people to laugh and make fun of the flesh and blood creatures they eat when talking about their painful life and deaths, why not at least be aware of what you are taking from them, the life every creature wants to live and have babies and be fed and play.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
Why must every topic regarding this issue inevitably devolve into elitism and ad hominem attacks? Especially one which specifically began by trying to go out of its way to avoid offending anyone and framing itself purely as personal opinions and feelings?

Allow me to suggest that both sides look at this way:

If the goal of veganism and vegetarianism are to reduce the suffering of animals and this desire is born of empathy for them, then surely the same empathy and compassion can be shown toward human beings in the form of mutual respect and civil communication. Condescension and anger aren't going to result in greater harmony or less suffering for anyone, animal or human. Likewise, if those who eat meat feel offended or angry because they disagree with some of the more condescending vegans and vegetarians they've encountered in life, then surely that offense and anger stems from feeling attacked. So attacking in kind won't reduce that tension.

I humbly request that both sides (since I'm sort of in the middle personally) try to talk to one another rather than at each other, and have some good will in your attitudes and speech toward one another. (This isn't directed at everyone, but it seems like every time this topic comes up it ends in arguments and consternation.)

If you can't or won't... well, I tried. And I only have the emotional energy reserves to play diplomat once today, so beyond this I'll just stay out of it.

Peace.

I agree 100% with what you just said.

I would like to say though that one vegan I know will not even let a meat eater in their home...the reason if persons stop and try to see their point of view is they feel like the persons who feel nothing for the slaughter and pain of the animals they consume the flesh of are like murders or the very least the way a meat eater would feel if they suddenly found the neighbor cooked their dog on the BBQ.

I can understand how they came to feel as they do, but hate never changes anything and compassion as you say should be for all.

Originally posted by cartesia
I wonder what it feels like to starve to death?

Or to lie half-dead in a brutal trap for days?

Or to be poisoned by pesticides?


The number of animals that die in the process of plant-based farming is staggering....

If every animal contains a soul, I'd rather see one cow slaughtered humanely than 100 mice/rats/birds/lizards/etc die horrible deaths.

edit on 12-4-2013 by cartesia because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by cartesia because: (no reason given)

I am not sure of your point since plant based food will always exist but meat eating will probably go as humans progress. Most natural farming does not use any of the methods you describe but natural deterrents to prevent creatures eating to much of the crops.

Star Trek has been right about everything else, I think we will eventually eat as the Vulcans do!

reply to post by TheFinder


This may help some. For the bilble bleaver anyway.

Romans 14:3 ESV / 15 helpful votes Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.

Genesis 1:29-31 ESV / 18 helpful votes And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

Future:

Isaiah 11:6-9 ESV / 5 helpful votes The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

www.openbible.info...

Originally posted by Char-Lee

Originally posted by AceWombat04
Why must every topic regarding this issue inevitably devolve into elitism and ad hominem attacks? Especially one which specifically began by trying to go out of its way to avoid offending anyone and framing itself purely as personal opinions and feelings?

Allow me to suggest that both sides look at this way:

If the goal of veganism and vegetarianism are to reduce the suffering of animals and this desire is born of empathy for them, then surely the same empathy and compassion can be shown toward human beings in the form of mutual respect and civil communication. Condescension and anger aren't going to result in greater harmony or less suffering for anyone, animal or human. Likewise, if those who eat meat feel offended or angry because they disagree with some of the more condescending vegans and vegetarians they've encountered in life, then surely that offense and anger stems from feeling attacked. So attacking in kind won't reduce that tension.

I humbly request that both sides (since I'm sort of in the middle personally) try to talk to one another rather than at each other, and have some good will in your attitudes and speech toward one another. (This isn't directed at everyone, but it seems like every time this topic comes up it ends in arguments and consternation.)

If you can't or won't... well, I tried. And I only have the emotional energy reserves to play diplomat once today, so beyond this I'll just stay out of it.

Peace.

I agree 100% with what you just said.

I would like to say though that one vegan I know will not even let a meat eater in their home...the reason if persons stop and try to see their point of view is they feel like the persons who feel nothing for the slaughter and pain of the animals they consume the flesh of are like murders or the very least the way a meat eater would feel if they suddenly found the neighbor cooked their dog on the BBQ.

I can understand how they came to feel as they do, but hate never changes anything and compassion as you say should be for all.

Thank-you. This is my feeling as well. The reason I say I'm sort of in the middle, is because on the one hand I completely empathize with the desire to not inflict suffering on animals and if I could I would gladly stop eating all animal protein. Unfortunately I lack digestive enzymes (and yes, I've tried replacing them through supplementation and other sources with no luck sadly, including probiotics in varying combinations over the course of my life) that allow me to effectively digest and absorb protein from many vegetarian sources (and I have a sensitivity to soy.)

I'm "one of those people" lol. I have to be on a very specific diet. Can't eat too much gluten, but can't have soy, and can't seem to digest vegies or seaweed. (Not to be too forthcoming... but they "go right through me," if you take my meaning.) I'm someone who can't get a whiff of cigarette smoke or chemicals without getting ill and who has to be very careful what he eats.

I limit my consumption of animal protein to a couple of times a week and ensure I buy free range, organic meat if I eat it. On holidays sometimes I consume more, since I have to anyway and I'm on such a ridiculously strict diet the rest of the year. Eliminating that would be the only way I could exercise greater compassion toward food source animals without harming my own health and being malnourished. I've experimented with various ways of staying as close to animal-free as I can over the years, and this is the balance I have found that allows me to be healthy.

But I definitely care. I'm someone who often thinks, "the only way to not inflict harm to something living is to be dead yourself." I don't even like the fact that I kill microbes, plants, and insects (we all apparently consume a certain amount of insect matter a year without realizing it.) It's one of the things I really dislike about the human condition. But since to exist is to inflict harm, I just try to love and respect everyone and do the best I can, which is all anyone can do.

Condescending, attacking, or dehumanizing never solves anything in my experience. It just creates more discontent and pain in my opinion.

Peace.

reply to post by AceWombat04

I'm someone who can't get a whiff of cigarette smoke or chemicals without getting ill

I have this also, cig smoke and road tar if they are actually melting it, I stop being able to breath. Only things that create asthma type response in me.

If I were a flesh eater I would now days buy from local farms and know the people so you know what they give in shots and food to the animals. We eat free range local eggs where you know what is being done and what is not.

If a person is not well off enough to skip the animal parts that are "meat glues" and "pink slimed" it would be really bad now days eating any of it! Guess it is best to at least stay informed.

SAN FRANCISCO -- If you were disturbed to hear about "pink slime" in your burger, you'll want to know about "meat glue," because a fat, rare-cooked filet mignon may not be what it seems. Meat glue is a powder officially known as transglutaminase. Originally, the natural enzyme was harvested from animal blood. Now it's primarily produced through the fermentation of bacteria. Added to meat, it forms a nearly invisible and permanent bond to any other meat you stick it to.

But here's the problem: the outside of a piece of meat comes in contact with a lot of bacteria making its way from slaughterhouse to table. Usually cooking a steak on the outside will kill all that off. The center of a single cut of steak is sterile, that's why you can eat it rare. But glued pieces of meat could contain bacteria like E. coli on the inside.

Marler said meat glue is used more than you think and the meat industry isn't giving consumers the whole picture.

Originally posted by Char-Lee

Originally posted by RothchildRancor

Originally posted by Aleister

Originally posted by Wisescarab
reply to post by Aleister

 

I have yet to meet a healthy vegan. Not a single one.

Then you really really need to get out more and hang out with the vegan people. The celebrities alone who are vegan are as healthy as horses (who are vegan), have the strength of elephants and the swiftness of deers (both vegan), carry with them the wisdom of the gorillas and the tenderness of the alien people of Sirius (all vegans). I was going to write lollollol at your comment, but was too surprised to lol. It just sounds so weird to me, pardon my overboardness. It's like "huh?" compared to my own experience.

EDIT: Since you haven't met one yet, I'd like to introduce you. Wisescarab, meet Anne. Anne, Wisescarab.

edit on 11-4-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

You act like vegans are superhuman which is absolute bs.

And then you added in the "alien people of Sirius".

edit on 12-4-2013 by spacedoubt because: Removed personal Insult. We don't do that here.

edit on 12-4-2013 by spacedoubt because: (no reason given)

No I said that one family who were raised as vegan and are still in their 60's vegan and all that i said they are.

Just so some realize not all vegans are running around brain dead with no teeth...I did not exaggerate in any way about them by the way and I envied them since I was 7 and first met them at a pool where they looked like my barbie doll.

Why do you have a problem with me telling you an experience of my own.

No problem here with your experiences.

The only thing I am trying to imply is that just because the most amazing people you know are vegans makes
them no better than people who enjoy meat no matter the health comparisons.

I've met healthy people on both spectrums.

The only way you should be cautious when devouring meat is your red meat intake as well as meats like beef. pork and other fatty meats.

Chicken and other kinds of poulty as well as fish and other kinds of seafood are very great for you health wise.

Excuse me if I came on a little over-passionate, but I have met vegans who think of themselves as the Master race of people compared to the rest of us.

I had a girlfriend in high school who was a vegetarian, and we were fine with eachother's eating styles. We worked out together and it was harmony.

why cant the world be like this.
The only problem i have is when comparing vegetarianism to eating meat with your diet is it seems like a battle of ideals with most people.

If you eat like a vegan but add in chicken and fish, and sparingly a little hamburger or two will not keep you from living until you are 100. this added in with exercise of course.

Peace!

Originally posted by Aleister

Originally posted by RothchildRancor
Most vegans I have ever met stare down there nose at you.

(I forgot to mention that giraffes are vegan, although if they ate a really long snake it would look pretty cool.)

That would look hilarious!

reply to post by RothchildRancor

Chicken and other kinds of poulty as well as fish and other kinds of seafood are very great for you health wise.

Do you think this is still true today? AND burgers oh .......

If I were a meat eater I think I would not be eating it right now I would be afraid of what the heck I am really eating! I feel lucky because we do grow some of our own food I like to see even where the veggie is from!

I really think people need to buy local and if you can raise your own. When I was young I raised a pig for food a feeder piglet was very cheep almost nothing, I had two kids and we was poor but had a vehicle and house provided by a job and lived on a farm, I made my own cheese and canned free fruit and made tomato sauce and jam.
The pig was butchered buy a pro who comes and does it and then cut and wraps and it was more then a years food for my family and I had fed it on corn, olives, from the orchard and two gallons of milk I had extra a day. It tasted nothing like anything you have ever bought it was 50000% better then anything we had ever bought, I did that again once a year while the kids were small and bought beef whole, half a beef shared by two families brought the price way down. Some families bought calfs and paid for pasture and thus they raised their own and it was even cheaper that way.

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by RothchildRancor

 

Chicken and other kinds of poulty as well as fish and other kinds of seafood are very great for you health wise.

Do you think this is still true today? AND burgers oh .......

If I were a meat eater I think I would not be eating it right now I would be afraid of what the heck I am really eating! I feel lucky because we do grow some of our own food I like to see even where the veggie is from!

I really think people need to buy local and if you can raise your own. When I was young I raised a pig for food a feeder piglet was very cheep almost nothing, I had two kids and we was poor but had a vehicle and house provided by a job and lived on a farm, I made my own cheese and canned free fruit and made tomato sauce and jam.
The pig was butchered buy a pro who comes and does it and then cut and wraps and it was more then a years food for my family and I had fed it on corn, olives, from the orchard and two gallons of milk I had extra a day. It tasted nothing like anything you have ever bought it was 50000% better then anything we had ever bought, I did that again once a year while the kids were small and bought beef whole, half a beef shared by two families brought the price way down. Some families bought calfs and paid for pasture and thus they raised their own and it was even cheaper that way.

First off, I never said anything about burgers being the most healthy of food, but plenty of humans on this planet enjoy them.
If you eat one hamburger a week your entire life you will be at no health risk unless your genetics say otherwise.

I have been eating burgers more often than that as well as chicken and fish from (dare I say?) Giant Eagle and other major grocery chains all my life, and I have never been told worrying news from a physician.

Of course if you raise your own cattle, chickens, and catch your own fish from nature you will be (slightly) more satisfied health wise, and from PERSONAL experience the taste is 100 times better.

Most people do not have the luxury to accomplish this.
Most people do not care to either.
Running a farm is a full time job that a lot of people do not have the patience for.

I still see no evidence in your argument that any vegetarian lifestyle is substantially better for your health as compared to eating the same way with every now and then having yourself some IMO delicious prepared animal meat.

I'm not talking about living like that dude on Man vs. Food.

I'm saying eating your healthy greens along with other vegetables but for those of us who like meat, maybe once to 3 times a week or more.

People can eat burgers to their hearts desire, and still be healthy as long as they don't eat it as often as what would put you to risk of heart problems.

I've had my doctor tell me that I should limit how much red meat I am consuming because of my high blood pressure, and I asked him," should I cut it out completely"

His response was,"that's just unnecessary unless you want to, just reduce the amount, you don't have to cut it out completey, and you will live a happy and long life based on your current health"

"This is just preventative maintenance based on your family's medical history"

Do I have any reason to question his opinion? No unless there is a conspiracy that has proof to back it up.

As you know , it is so uneasy and complicated for you to diet .But you are wanting to diet the most effective and quickly . Therefore , If you’re looking to get started on a vegetarian diet, chances are you’re concerned about your falling back to meat-eating habits somewhere in the middle. Many people who begin on this journey do. To prevent yourself from going back, you need to have a deep conviction inside about why you want to be a vegetarian. The reasons are as diverse as there are people, but if it’s on your mind to make this change of diet, then there must be a reason that will appeal to you the most. Once you’re convinced deep down inside that it is the right thing to do, those meat dishes in your friend’s party will not seem tempting at all, and it will be easy to stick to your chosen path.

So why is it important to be a vegetarian? First and foremost, there are important health benefits in a vegetarian diet. Several research studies suggest a link between longevity and a vegetarian diet. According to a study by the Loma Linda University, vegetarians live almost seven years longer, and vegans almost fifteen years longer, than meat eaters. A vegetarian diet can help in reducing risk of cancer and cardio-vascular disease. Fruits and vegetables are full of antioxidant nutrients that protect the heart and its arteries. Animal food products are loaded with dietary saturated fat and cholesterol. An average American male on a meat-based diet has a 50 percent chance of dying from heart diseases. A study of a group of French vegetarians found that they had a daily intake of 25 percent less fat than non-vegetarians. Some of the other proven health benefits of a vegetarian diet include significantly reduced rates of obesity, coronary heart disease, hypertension, constipation, and gallstones.

Secondly, the mass production of meat is environmentally damaging, and unsustainable, and going vegetarian can help restore the planet’s health. Approximately 70 percent of the grain crop in the US is used for feeding animals being raised for food. It takes 15 pounds of feed to generate 1 pound of meat, and if the grain were given directly to people, there would be enough food to feed the entire planet. According to a study, the inefficiencies in the production of meat, milk, and eggs range from 4:1 to 54:1 energy input to protein output ratio, when tracking animal food production from feed to consumption Hence the production of animal foods is much less energy efficient than harvesting of grains, vegetables, legumes, and fruits. Animal farming also generates significant amounts of nitrous oxide and methane, which have a significant impact on global warming. Also, it is estimated that a pound of beef takes 2,500 gallons of water, while a pound of wheat takes 25. Hence, production of meat leads to wastage, and rampant water pollution.

A vegetarian diet can protect you from food-borne illnesses. Vegetarianism reduces the risk of E.coli infection. It is estimated that approximately five percent of cows slaughtered in America for meat contain the lethal O157:H7 strain of E.coli, which can even lead to death. Also, there have been various animal food safety scares over the last few years, including avian influenza in poultry, mad cow disease in cows, foot-and-mouth disease in sheep, and mercury in fish. Therefore, being vegetarian can protect you from several such diseases.

Another important reason to be vegetarian is that it is ethical. Each day, 22 million animals are slaughtered in America to produce meat. The entire life of a captive animal raised for meat is unnatural, and involves abnormal diets for fattening, hormonal stimulation, and the eventual killing, which are totally unnecessary. If animal rights concern you, then a vegetarian diet is a natural choice.

A vegetarian diet can help you save money. Replacing chicken, meat, and fish with vegetables and fruits is estimated to help save close to $ 4,000 a year. Hence it makes economic sense as well to convert to a vegetarian diet.

There are compelling reasons to turn vegetarian, and the question you should be asking yourself is not why, but why not? With obvious benefits for your health and the planet’s, and being a better economic choice, it is no wonder that there is growing interest in vegetarianism today.

reply to post by retirednature


absodoodle! i have not eaten meat for 25 years (though as i have said here before, i have helped raise livestock on an organic/bio-d farm for years), but if i was stuck on a desert island with a cow, i'd kill it with my bare hands and drool as i crammed the thing down! i dont wanna eat flesh, but i want to live much more

without countless millions of dead animals, we wouldnt be here, whether thats the very ok by me hunting of mega fauna and deer with stone spearpoints or the reprehensible modern industrialised farming... nature is an orgy of killing and eating though.

reply to post by trevo


as a long time veggie, i think the taking of sides on the issue and trying to convince folk that it's right is quite pointless. you have to go back a long long way to find hominids in our ancestry that did not rely on meat and it's a futile argument anyway, it's easy to eat meat and be perfectly healthy, just as it's easy to have a poor veggie diet. so meh.
however, in all food types we can make sutainable choices that dont screw up the world around us - by not wasting food, by understanding nutrition (which the usual anti-veggie arguments simply do not), by understanding the ecosystem impact of modern farming. go organic and home-grown.. the argument or studies that organic is no more nutritious is a phenomenal red-herring, it's about the benefits to our ecosystem and energy usage.
understand your food and the cost to our lives and the future, thats they key, for both meat eaters and vegetarians, vegans, pizzatarians and so forth.

totally agree with you, I respect what you think about why being a vegetarian, even more than that you are being human.

I share a vid on the topic discussed here:


Cheers.