Protestant disinfo debunked-Catholics are also Christians

reply to post by adjensen


We do not fit the characteristics of a cult that you have posted.

Catholic and Protestant groups, however, have been guilty of murdering those who try to leave or that they label as "heretics". They have, like your Rick Ross, been guilty of kidnapping. My sister, while visiting a trinity church, was locked in a room and told that she could not leave until she converted. She was under 18 years old at the time. These are the characteristics of a real cult.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Baptism doesn't save you,

1 Peter 3:21 (KJV)
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

So how many people do you think are burning in hell right now because they died after they put their trust in Christ, but before they could get wet?

The Bible says "you must be born again of the water and Spirit. It is not my place nor in my power to preach anything else or declare them to be saved if they have not been born again.

reply to post by truejew


So the term "cultist" is only highly offensive if it is someone other than you who uses it.

Add hypocrisy to your list of faults.

reply to post by truejew


The Bible declares that those who trust Christ "shall be" saved, it doesn't say maybe, hopefully, or that it's the first of a few steps in that direction, it says they "shall be saved".

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation


John 5:11-13 also says those that "believe" are saved. Now I do believe that the scripture says that all believers should be baptized, but that act of faith is subsequent to the initial faith in Christ.

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by adjensen

 

We do not fit the characteristics of a cult that you have posted.

Catholic and Protestant groups, however, have been guilty of murdering those who try to leave or that they label as "heretics". They have, like your Rick Ross, been guilty of kidnapping. My sister, while visiting a trinity church, was locked in a room and told that she could not leave until she converted. She was under 18 years old at the time. These are the characteristics of a real cult.

I don't exactly know the details, but I'm fairly certain Rick Ross was acquitted.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by truejew

 

So the term "cultist" is only highly offensive if it is someone other than you who uses it.

Add hypocrisy to your list of faults.

No, it is offensive due to it being a false accusation.

I am not against a group being called a cult if they really have cult characteristics.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

The Bible declares that those who trust Christ "shall be" saved, it doesn't say maybe, hopefully, or that it's the first of a few steps in that direction, it says they "shall be saved".

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation


John 5:11-13 also says those that "believe" are saved. Now I do believe that the scripture says that all believers should be baptized, but that act of faith is subsequent to the initial faith in Christ.

Those who trust Christ and believe are those who are baptized. Refusing baptism is the same as refusing Christ.

You cannot pick Romans 10 and John 5 and ignore John 3, Acts 2...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by adjensen

 

We do not fit the characteristics of a cult that you have posted.

Catholic and Protestant groups, however, have been guilty of murdering those who try to leave or that they label as "heretics". They have, like your Rick Ross, been guilty of kidnapping. My sister, while visiting a trinity church, was locked in a room and told that she could not leave until she converted. She was under 18 years old at the time. These are the characteristics of a real cult.

I don't exactly know the details, but I'm fairly certain Rick Ross was acquitted.

Unless he repents, God won't acquit him.

Originally posted by truejew
I am not against a group being called a cult if they really have cult characteristics.

Then you should not be offended by anyone calling your "church" a cult, because it has many characteristics of a cult. Your apology at besmirching my character is hereby accepted

United Pentecostal Church / UPC on factnet.org's "Cults and other users of mind control" list. I know that Reckart left or got kicked out of the UPC, but he's even more fringe than they are.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
I am not against a group being called a cult if they really have cult characteristics.

Then you should not be offended by anyone calling your "church" a cult, because it has many characteristics of a cult. Your apology at besmirching my character is hereby accepted

United Pentecostal Church / UPC on factnet.org's "Cults and other users of mind control" list. I know that Reckart left or got kicked out of the UPC, but he's even more fringe than they are.

We do not fit the characteristics of a cult that you posted.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by adjensen

 

We do not fit the characteristics of a cult that you have posted.

Catholic and Protestant groups, however, have been guilty of murdering those who try to leave or that they label as "heretics". They have, like your Rick Ross, been guilty of kidnapping. My sister, while visiting a trinity church, was locked in a room and told that she could not leave until she converted. She was under 18 years old at the time. These are the characteristics of a real cult.

I don't exactly know the details, but I'm fairly certain Rick Ross was acquitted.

Unless he repents, God won't acquit him.

Repents of what?

You just called someone a kidnapper who a jury acquitted.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by adjensen

 

We do not fit the characteristics of a cult that you have posted.

Catholic and Protestant groups, however, have been guilty of murdering those who try to leave or that they label as "heretics". They have, like your Rick Ross, been guilty of kidnapping. My sister, while visiting a trinity church, was locked in a room and told that she could not leave until she converted. She was under 18 years old at the time. These are the characteristics of a real cult.

I don't exactly know the details, but I'm fairly certain Rick Ross was acquitted.

Unless he repents, God won't acquit him.

Repents of what?

You just called someone a kidnapper who a jury acquitted.

A kidnapper is still a kidnapper even if a jury acquits him. A jury cannot remit sin.

He was sued civilly by the victim and was found guilty. The jury in that case said that he “acted recklessly in a way that is so outrageous in character and so extreme as to go beyond all possible bounds of decency and to be regarded as atrocious and utterly intolerable in a civilized community.”

Originally posted by truejew
We do not fit the characteristics of a cult that you posted.

Of course you don't think you do, or you'd have left them when you realized it (one would hope.)

1. Intense Study - Focus is on group doctrine and writings. Bible, if used at all, is referred to one verse at time to "prove" group teachings.

2. Opposer Warnings - Recruiters are told that "Satan" will cause relatives and friend to say bad things about the group to try to "steal them away from God." Recruits soon believes group members, alone, are truthful/trustworthy.

3. Guilt and Fear - Group dwells on members' "sinful nature" (many use public confession). Guilt and fear arising from "failing God" are magnified to manipulate new member.

4. Schedule Control & Fatigue - Study and service become mandatory. New member becomes too busy to question. Family, friends, jobs and hobbies are squeezed out, further isolating the new member.

5. Attack Independent Thought - Critical thinking is discouraged as prideful and sinful, blind acceptance encouraged.

6. Divine Commission - Leader(s) claim new revelation from God, within past 200 years, in which all but their group are rejected by God. They, alone, speak for God.

7. Absolutism - They insist on total, unquestioning obedience and submission to the group, both actions AND thoughts. Group "love" and acceptance becomes dependent upon obedience and submission. Unconditional love...isn't.

8. Totalism - "Us against them" thinking. Strengthens group identity. Everyone outside of group lumped under one label.

#1, #2, #5, #6, #7, #8 -- ding ding ding, your group, or at least Reckart and the nuts he associates with on Facebook, absolutely demonstrates these characteristics.

#3, #4 -- I haven't seen signs of these two, but I'm not a member.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
We do not fit the characteristics of a cult that you posted.

Of course you don't think you do, or you'd have left them when you realized it (one would hope.)

1. Intense Study - Focus is on group doctrine and writings. Bible, if used at all, is referred to one verse at time to "prove" group teachings.

2. Opposer Warnings - Recruiters are told that "Satan" will cause relatives and friend to say bad things about the group to try to "steal them away from God." Recruits soon believes group members, alone, are truthful/trustworthy.

3. Guilt and Fear - Group dwells on members' "sinful nature" (many use public confession). Guilt and fear arising from "failing God" are magnified to manipulate new member.

4. Schedule Control & Fatigue - Study and service become mandatory. New member becomes too busy to question. Family, friends, jobs and hobbies are squeezed out, further isolating the new member.

5. Attack Independent Thought - Critical thinking is discouraged as prideful and sinful, blind acceptance encouraged.

6. Divine Commission - Leader(s) claim new revelation from God, within past 200 years, in which all but their group are rejected by God. They, alone, speak for God.

7. Absolutism - They insist on total, unquestioning obedience and submission to the group, both actions AND thoughts. Group "love" and acceptance becomes dependent upon obedience and submission. Unconditional love...isn't.

8. Totalism - "Us against them" thinking. Strengthens group identity. Everyone outside of group lumped under one label.

#1, #2, #5, #6, #7, #8 -- ding ding ding, your group, or at least Reckart and the nuts he associates with on Facebook, absolutely demonstrates these characteristics.

#3, #4 -- I haven't seen signs of these two, but I'm not a member.

#1 and #8 are naturally parts of Christianity and are not characteristics of cults only. The rest we don't do or are misstatements about what we do/teach.

I notice that kidnapping, murder, drug use and pedophilia are not included. Is that to keep Catholic and Protestant churches from being included as cults?

Originally posted by truejew
#1 and #8 are naturally parts of Christianity and are not characteristics of cults only. The rest we don't do or are misstatements about what we do/teach.

You either didn't read #1 and #8 or you don't understand them. And I'm not going to waste my time re-posting rubbish from your hillbilly pastor, since you won't read it anyway, but yes, you do the ones I noted (or at least your leader and his associates do.)

I notice that kidnapping, murder, drug use and pedophilia are not included. Is that to keep Catholic and Protestant churches from being included as cults?

Given the disparity in the numbers of Catholic priests and Apostolic Oneness pastors, I'd say that there are more pedophiles in your church, per capita.

By the way, I came across an interesting article today about snake handlers and poison drinkers within the Apostolic Oneness movement, are you into that, as well?

Originally posted by adjensen

but yes, you do the ones I noted (or at least your leader and his associates do.)

We do not. Also, we are not like the Catholic Church, we do not have a single person leader. The Church has a five-fold ministry leadership.

Originally posted by adjensen

Given the disparity in the numbers of Catholic priests and Apostolic Oneness pastors, I'd say that there are more , per capita.

Having the fruit of the Spirit is required to be Apostolic. Therefore the ones you post about are not Apostolic.

Originally posted by adjensen

By the way, I came across an interesting article today about snake handlers and poison drinkers within the Apostolic Oneness movement, are you into that, as well?

No, and I have never met any that do. I do not consider them to be Apostolic.

reply to post by truejew

Dear truejew,

I'm a little disappointed at the turn this thread has taken. I know that you see your beliefs as more accurate or true than those of the other's here, but if that is true, where is the fruit?

Are you bringing your brothers and sisters closer to God, filling their hearts with love, using reason to gently guide their steps, or causing any good result? Please consider the fruit which is being produced. If it is anger or hatred, please reconsider your words and attitude.

The truth should be attractive, compelling, and desirable. If you do believe you have the truth, are you presenting it that way, or are you adding to the shameful division among Christians?



Oh, a little technical, legal mumbo-jumbo. One can be found guilty only in a criminal case. To do so requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. A civil trial may result in someone being found liable, that only needs 51% of the evidence.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by truejew
No, and I have never met any that do. I do not consider them to be Apostolic.

Why? If the only difference between you and them is that they juggle snakes and/or drink poison, what makes them "non-Apostolic"? Since you've never encountered them, and the ones in the article that I read were "Jesus only" baptizers who claimed pretty much the same things that you do, I don't see any difference, apart from the snakes, and I don't see how that would disqualify them.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
No, and I have never met any that do. I do not consider them to be Apostolic.

Why? If the only difference between you and them is that they juggle snakes and/or drink poison, what makes them "non-Apostolic"? Since you've never encountered them, and the ones in the article that I read were "Jesus only" baptizers who claimed pretty much the same things that you do, I don't see any difference, apart from the snakes, and I don't see how that would disqualify them.

The apostles did not teach snake handling and poison drinking.

reply to post by charles1952


You seem to think that it is good fruit to falsely accuse and bad fruit to defend against false accusations.