Protestant disinfo debunked-Catholics are also Christians

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by truejew

 

Or by examining the text and using one's own intelligence, given by God, to understand what it's about?

A person's intelligence/iq does not save a person. A person with a low iq, not only has an equal chance for salvation, but is more likely to be saved due to the lack of pride in his own intelligence.

Originally posted by adjensen

No, your point in posting to a thread that had been quiet for a few days was to name call someone in the hopes that he would respond to you. Mission accomplished.

That is not the case.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by truejew

 

Or by examining the text and using one's own intelligence, given by God, to understand what it's about?

A person's intelligence/iq does not save a person.

Revelation doesn't save a person, either -- Christ does, and that is abundantly clear in scripture. One need not discern anything, or sit at the feet of any guru or pastor, in order to achieve salvation.

Intelligence is required for understanding theology, but understanding theology is not a requirement for salvation, which is kind of a cornerstone of Christianity.

Almost Gnostic isn't it? That salvation isn't found in a Person, but what one knows or says.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I honestly don't know how to classify that "circus service" -- what part in salvation does screaming, running laps around the sanctuary or hitting other people in the face play? Absolutely bonkers.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I honestly don't know how to classify that "circus service" -- what part in salvation does screaming, running laps around the sanctuary or hitting other people in the face play? Absolutely bonkers.

I think it's wise to separate those that are Charismatic and Charismaniac.

There's a slight difference.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I honestly don't know how to classify that "circus service" -- what part in salvation does screaming, running laps around the sanctuary or hitting other people in the face play? Absolutely bonkers.

I think it's wise to separate those that are Charismatic and Charismaniac.

There's a slight difference.

It is also important to point out that the church in the video isn't Apostolic. Apostolic and Charismatic are not the same things.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by truejew

 

Revelation doesn't save a person, either -- Christ does, and that is abundantly clear in scripture.

The revelation of who Christ is and His Gospel is necessary for salvation.

Originally posted by adjensen

Intelligence is required for understanding theology, but understanding theology is not a requirement for salvation, which is kind of a cornerstone of Christianity.

Which is what I said. It is not Christian to insult others due to their intelligence as you and jmdewey60 do.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I honestly don't know how to classify that "circus service" -- what part in salvation does screaming, running laps around the sanctuary or hitting other people in the face play? Absolutely bonkers.

I think it's wise to separate those that are Charismatic and Charismaniac.

There's a slight difference.

It is also important to point out that the church in the video isn't Apostolic. Apostolic and Charismatic are not the same things.

Really? So Apostolics reject that the gifts of the Spirit are for the church today?

Your group is either Cessasionist or Charismatic.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by truejew

 

Revelation doesn't save a person, either -- Christ does, and that is abundantly clear in scripture.

The revelation of who Christ is and His Gospel is necessary for salvation.

Again, it's spelled out quite clearly in the Bible. It isn't rocket science and no special revelation is necessary.

Faith is granted by grace, it isn't revealed.

Which is what I said. It is not Christian to insult others due to their intelligence as you and jmdewey60 do.

I don't recall insulting anyone due to their lack of intelligence, since I've not passed out IQ tests and have no idea how intelligent anyone happens to be, I've simply pointed out that not being a critical thinker makes you gullible to control and coercion.

I'm a bit surprised to see you disparaging intelligence, though, as that's pretty much Reckart's claim to fame -- he thinks that he's "figured it out" and crows about how he's the only one who knows the truth about (...Yahweh, YHWH, baptism, fill in the blank...).

I've been keeping track, though, and between the lies, arrogance, plagiarism, thinly veiled hatred of those who disagree with him, bigotry, bragging about charitable works and hypocrisy, he's pretty much a poster child for the type of person about whom Christ said "I never knew you." I don't know why you keep turning a blind eye to that.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Really? So Apostolics reject that the gifts of the Spirit are for the church today?

Your group is either Cessasionist or Charismatic.

edit on 13-8-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Charismatic is more than what you think. It also includes a lack of standards.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Really? So Apostolics reject that the gifts of the Spirit are for the church today?

Your group is either Cessasionist or Charismatic.

edit on 13-8-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Charismatic is more than what you think. It also includes a lack of standards.

No sorry, you don't get to arbitrarily redefine words.

Christians fall into two groups, "Cessasionists" who believe the gifts of the Spirit ended when the NT was complete, and "Charismatic" Christians who believe that the gifts of the Spirit never ended and are for the church today.

reply to post by adjensen


Isn't it amazing how few people know the fundamental difference between the terms education and intelligence?

I don't think public schools have Vocab classes anymore like they did when I was in them back in the day.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Again, the church in the video is not like us. We do not believe women are called to ministry. We do not yell "hallelujah". It was dishonest for Adjensen to post a video of another type of church and claim that it shows what goes on in our churches.

Hi, I recall the word "charismatic" was used by Our Lord in a recent private revelation.

This is a message to Father Melvin Doucette, a holy priest and he himself has the gift of healing. Father Melvin has a parish on Prince Edward Island, the only place in Canada, abortion is outlawed. Alleluia!

The Gospel verses 1 Cor 12: 1-11 was posted first with this excerpt from the message.

+ + +

August 6, 2013

Message to Father Melvin

www.ourladyofpei.com...

”You have been baptized and confirmed and so you have received the Holy Spirit, My brother Melvin and all My brothers and sisters who follow My Church. Perhaps some have prayed over you for the baptism of the Spirit and you felt filled totally with the Holy Spirit. By doing this, you have received many spiritual gifts that were dormant in you. You have all received the Holy Spirit through the sacraments, but the gifts can be dormant until they are revived. Through the CHARISMATIC movement, the gifts can be revived and then you can use them to help others. Most receive the gift of speaking in tongues and praying in tongues. Others receive the gift of healing from the Holy Spirit and you know if you have that gift when a person has been healed after you prayed over him or her. There are many wonderful gifts of the Holy Spirit and you should keep your heart opened to receive whatever the Holy Spirit wants to give you. ....

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Again, the church in the video is not like us. We do not believe women are called to ministry. We do not yell "hallelujah". It was dishonest for Adjensen to post a video of another type of church and claim that it shows what goes on in our churches.

Why don't you try and focus? I never said anything about the video, I didn't even watch it. I challenged your statement that your tiny sect isn't Charismatic. If you believe that the gifts of the Spirit did not die after the NT was written and are for the church today you are in the Charismatic branch of Christianity, that's what Charismatic means. There are only two groups, Cessasionists and Charismatics.

Originally posted by truejew
It was dishonest for Adjensen to post a video of another type of church and claim that it shows what goes on in our churches.

Where did I say that was your church? Please link to my post, or else apologize for accusing me of something I didn't do.

And I'll wait for that apology, because I didn't say that -- what I said was that the whole "I am infused with the Holy Spirit and I'll just do and say random things because it's the Spirit working through me" leads to nonsense like that circus shown in the video.

You claim that your glossolalia isn't gibberish, but unless you are actually speaking another human language that you have no prior knowledge of, that's exactly what it is -- I can point you to linguistic studies that have been done on the subject and conclude that it is nothing but gibberish. I'm sure that you'll claim that every other Pentecostal who babbles is not showing the "fruits of the spirit" and only members of your cult do, but that is clearly delusional thinking. Theirs is fake, yours is fake, you know very well that yours is fake, but you're just not confident enough in your faith to admit it.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by truejew

 

I don't know why you keep saying that when I never said anything even like that.

When people receive the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues, they are delivered from sin.

Here is an example of the lunacy that ensues when you delude people into thinking that they've been "infused with the Holy Spirit":

You wanna worship in a circus, I say you go to Ringling Brothers the next time they're in town and say a prayer for those sad looking clowns.

Hold on now. I've been to Pentecostal churches and they believe in the singing and dancing and giving mighty shouts to the Lord and laying on hands. It is biblical. I myself don't see anything wrong with this worship service.

I think it takes a tremendous amount of hubris to say that these people do not have the Holy Spirit because they are taking joy in the Lord, and a tremendous amount of hubris to call it a circus act. Don't be so quick to make fun, because if this is born of the Holy Spirit then you have committed the unforgiveable sin.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Hold on now. I've been to Pentecostal churches and they believe in the singing and dancing and giving mighty shouts to the Lord and laying on hands. It is biblical. I myself don't see anything wrong with this worship service.

What's wrong with it is that it's crazy, pure and simple. It's an example of peer pressure, groupthink and delusional thinking. For about 1800 years, that sort of thing was, in no way, a part of worship or accepted behaviour. So either one believes that, after Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was absent from the Earth until the 1800s Charismatic movement, or that these are actions that have nothing to do with him.

There is nothing wrong with singing, with shouting "amen" or with being exuberant in one's worship, but running laps around the sanctuary, screaming and shouting nonsense at the top of one's lungs, or knocking people down by "laying on of hands", no, I see absolutely nothing holy in any of that.

We talk about it in next week's "Reality Remix" radio program, but here is a secular equivalent -- indoctrination into groupthink through education:

Those kids would be right at home in that crazy Pentecostal worship service I posted.

reply to post by adjensen

What's wrong with it is that it's crazy, pure and simple.

Was King David "crazy?

Think before you answer friend.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Hold on now. I've been to Pentecostal churches and they believe in the singing and dancing and giving mighty shouts to the Lord and laying on hands. It is biblical. I myself don't see anything wrong with this worship service.

For about 1800 years, that sort of thing was, in no way, a part of worship or accepted behaviour.

You are forgetting about the Quakers.